Phil Rogers line of the day

[caulfield12]

"I wonder what would be happening now if Williams and the front office had had more faith in some they cast aside. Aaron Rowand, Neal Cotts, Geoff Blum, Luis Vizcaino and Freddy Garcia and youngsters like Brandon McCarthy and center fielder Chris Young. Maybe even the high-maintenance man, El Duque."

 

The Vazquez trade has been a bad one and could get worse-Chris Young's OPS for Arizona was higher than that of all but one Sox regular after Friday-especially if the Sox wind up losing Buehrle and Garland because Vazquez and Contreras were easier to sign. more easily signed."

 

No mention of Thomas and Everett, even the incomparable Willie Harris and Timo Perez? Geoff Blum? SERIOUSLY?

 

Well, Rowand would be playing CF when he wasn't injured. Chris Young would be struggling against the much tougher AL Central pitching. The defense would be much better, but we wouldn't have a leadoff hitter within sight.

 

Cotts was pretty bad 2 out of 3 years here, but I guess we were supposed to have faith he would be better because it's an odd year in 07 (like Saberhagen's success every other season).

 

Vizcaino was the 6th man for most of 05 and MIGHT have been the 4th or 5th in 2006, but I doubt he would have become the primary RH set-up man and prevented us from having to trade for Riske and MacDougal. I guess Rogers assumes that his NL numbers automatically translate to the White Sox.

 

Garcia, El Duque and McCarthy would probably have the same record as Danks and Vazquez, although odds are VERY high at least one of those first two would have gone down with injuries.

 

At least we have Danks and Gio Gonzalez, LH starters are the most valuable commodity in baseball.

 

I don't think that the theoretical Sox "stand pat" team would have finished at 90 wins last year or much higher than .500 this year.

 

The only major loss is Chris Young, but we might get someone just as good or better (or we might not) if we flip Vazquez for prospects.

[gosox41]

"I wonder what would be happening now if Williams and the front office had had more faith in some they cast aside. Aaron Rowand, Neal Cotts, Geoff Blum, Luis Vizcaino and Freddy Garcia and youngsters like Brandon McCarthy and center fielder Chris Young. Maybe even the high-maintenance man, El Duque."

 

The Vazquez trade has been a bad one and could get worse-Chris Young's OPS for Arizona was higher than that of all but one Sox regular after Friday-especially if the Sox wind up losing Buehrle and Garland because Vazquez and Contreras were easier to sign. more easily signed."

 

No mention of Thomas and Everett, even the incomparable Willie Harris and Timo Perez? Geoff Blum? SERIOUSLY?

 

Well, Rowand would be playing CF when he wasn't injured. Chris Young would be struggling against the much tougher AL Central pitching. The defense would be much better, but we wouldn't have a leadoff hitter within sight.

 

Cotts was pretty bad 2 out of 3 years here, but I guess we were supposed to have faith he would be better because it's an odd year in 07 (like Saberhagen's success every other season).

 

Vizcaino was the 6th man for most of 05 and MIGHT have been the 4th or 5th in 2006, but I doubt he would have become the primary RH set-up man and prevented us from having to trade for Riske and MacDougal. I guess Rogers assumes that his NL numbers automatically translate to the White Sox.

 

Garcia, El Duque and McCarthy would probably have the same record as Danks and Vazquez, although odds are VERY high at least one of those first two would have gone down with injuries.

 

At least we have Danks and Gio Gonzalez, LH starters are the most valuable commodity in baseball.

 

I don't think that the theoretical Sox "stand pat" team would have finished at 90 wins last year or much higher than .500 this year.

 

The only major loss is Chris Young, but we might get someone just as good or better (or we might not) if we flip Vazquez for prospects.

 

 

I read this article and just shook my head. Imagine if the Sox kept most of these guys. Phil would be writing about how KW wasn't aggressive and allowed this team to get old and expnsive.

 

 

Bob

[caulfield12]

I read this article and just shook my head. Imagine if the Sox kept most of these guys. Phil would be writing about how KW wasn't aggressive and allowed this team to get old and expnsive.

Bob

 

 

As you note, he conveniently skipped over Thomas and Everett, I'm sure due to their ages.

 

None of the guys he listed were "non-veterans," with the exceptions of Young and McCarthy.

 

When it comes down to it, it's going to amount to:

 

McCarthy/Young versus Gio, Floyd, Masset, Danks and whoever we eventually acquire for Vazquez. Essentially, KW's betting on his "two for one" philosophy being the best call on these pitching deals. That if one is a bust, there's still a chance the other one will excel.

 

And that's our hope, that two of those five pitchers (along with Adam Russell) will make it and establish themselves as members of our rotation.

[southsideirish71]

As you note, he conveniently skipped over Thomas and Everett, I'm sure due to their ages.

 

None of the guys he listed were "non-veterans," with the exceptions of Young and McCarthy.

 

When it comes down to it, it's going to amount to:

 

McCarthy/Young versus Gio, Floyd, Masset, Danks and whoever we eventually acquire for Vazquez. Essentially, KW's betting on his "two for one" philosophy being the best call on these pitching deals. That if one is a bust, there's still a chance the other one will excel.

 

And that's our hope, that two of those five pitchers (along with Adam Russell) will make it and establish themselves as members of our rotation.

 

I was a huge Bmac fan, Danks and Massett for Bmac is a great trade for the sox.

[beck72]

I read this article and just shook my head. Imagine if the Sox kept most of these guys. Phil would be writing about how KW wasn't aggressive and allowed this team to get old and expnsive.

Bob

Agreed. Not to mention the fan base being up in arms when the sox would have probably have lost 90 games for a few years after the old guys break down.

 

The sox have older position players. The only way a team breaks them in is if they don't have playoff aspirations. Yet the sox have been able to get younger pitching and still contend.

 

Rogers, Mariotti and the like act like the Sox broke up a dynasty in the making. The 2005 sox won and were built in 2006 to repeat. No one could have expected them to win in 2007 and beyond with the same group that won in 2005. Yet that is essentially what their gripes point to.

[rangercal]

Did anyone know this?

 

From Wikipedia

Everett is currently on the roster of the Long Island Ducks of the Atlantic League of Professional Baseball. The New York Yankees, Chicago White Sox, and Anaheim Angels have expressed interest in the veteran slugger, but he remains unsigned by a major league team.

[caulfield12]

Did anyone know this?

 

From Wikipedia

 

 

I guess as insurance, but Thome coming back?

 

Then again, we still don't have a LFer...KW goes to the Everett well 3 times? Are both Alomars far behind?

Maybe we should stick Michael Jordan or Oscar De La Hoya in LF.

[Soxfest]

Phil has his Tribune Cubby Chubby going!

[fathom]

I disagree with the premise of the article, but there was something said in it that is very true: we better hope that re-signing Vazquez and Contreras doesn't make it impossible to keep Buehrle and Garland around.

[beck72]

Am I missing something or isn't Garland signed through 2008?

 

My prediction: Jon or Mark [or both] will be signed to a long term extension. Contreras is more likely to be dealt, esp. if Mark is signed.

[Gregory Pratt]

I don't believe in the future of this organization. I believe we're going to go cheap after this year and will suck because we don't know how to develop talent or draft it. I hold out slim hopes that the scouting department is going to genuinely change but I won't believe it until I see it.

[BearSox]

 

what a tool.

[beck72]

I don't believe in the future of this organization. I believe we're going to go cheap after this year and will suck because we don't know how to develop talent or draft it. I hold out slim hopes that the scouting department is going to genuinely change but I won't believe it until I see it.

 

One thing this organization does very well is recognize the major talent they have and retain it. And recognize who may not pan out and get value in return, be they guys in the majors or minors. They could have given up on any numbers of players like Crede, Garland.

 

The sox have problems in the players they have drafted. Esp. in position players. Yet the fixes are a ways off. Still, the pitching should be coming which will keep the sox in contention.

[Dick Allen]

Phil is being rather selective in his article, and the fact is teams that stand pat generally decline the next season. Keeping the 2005 team in place would not have made a difference in 2006, and there are still issues in 2007 that need to be addressed. Mediocre baseball has been played for too long now to think the White Sox are one of the top teams in the league without any doubt. I like the line about Jerry Krause Disease. While I don't know if its quite like that yet, I've noticed KW thinking his s*** doesn't stink since the title. A bold move or two, maybe even taking on some payroll may shake this team up enough to get better. The thing that concerns me is we are now all resigned to the fact that our free agents will be leaving once their contracts are up. This was the pre-championship attitude, and it seems to have returned very quickly.

[jackie hayes]

That's simply one of the most astonishingly stupid articles the Trib has put out in a while.

 

The team should have had faith in Geoff Blum? Wtf? Geoff Blum?

 

The Trib should actually be embarrassed by that article. It wouldn't be so bad if it were in one of those 'voice of the fans' pieces they used to run. But from their own guy? Yeesh.

[Gregory Pratt]

Phil is being rather selective in his article, and the fact is teams that stand pat generally decline the next season. Keeping the 2005 team in place would not have made a difference in 2006, and there are still issues in 2007 that need to be addressed. Mediocre baseball has been played for too long now to think the White Sox are one of the top teams in the league without any doubt. I like the line about Jerry Krause Disease. While I don't know if its quite like that yet, I've noticed KW thinking his s*** doesn't stink since the title. A bold move or two, maybe even taking on some payroll may shake this team up enough to get better. The thing that concerns me is we are now all resigned to the fact that our free agents will be leaving once their contracts are up. This was the pre-championship attitude, and it seems to have returned very quickly.

 

Well when KW publicly whines about contracts, and JR has his "No more than three years!" policy, there's reason for pessimism.

[fathom]

Something ironic about this article by Rogers is that something that's really hurt the Sox this year is bringing back Pods, who apparently was the greatest catalyst in history during 2005.

 

Well when KW publicly whines about contracts, and JR has his "No more than three years!" policy, there's reason for pessimism.

 

Brilliant!

[Gregory Pratt]

It's a no-brainer. If the team were publicly committed to spending money and had a track record of good drafting, there'd be reason to be optimistic but as it stands we're an old team that relies on the homerun because we can't manufacture runs because most of the team clogs the bases, we don't draft or develop particularly well and there's reason to believe that we won't be spending as much in the future (or will have to settle for Aaron Rowand instead of Andruw Jones, to give an example), then the only reasonable thing to conclude is that there are dark days ahead, especially when the rest of the division is young and studly.

[jackie hayes]

It's a no-brainer. If the team were publicly committed to spending money and had a track record of good drafting, there'd be reason to be optimistic but as it stands we're an old team that relies on the homerun because we can't manufacture runs because most of the team clogs the bases, we don't draft or develop particularly well and there's reason to believe that we won't be spending as much in the future (or will have to settle for Aaron Rowand instead of Andruw Jones, to give an example), then the only reasonable thing to conclude is that there are dark days ahead, especially when the rest of the division is young and studly.

What the hell does that mean?

 

We should spend money just to spend it? We should sign players that we don't believe in, just to prove we've got the cash?

[Gregory Pratt]

I fully expect the organization to whine all offseason next offseason over contracts. Buehrle's too expensive! Ichiro's too expensive! We have to settle for Grinders!

 

It means that this is a cheap organization at-heart and will revert to it soon, IMO.

[caulfield12]

What the hell does that mean?

 

We should spend money just to spend it? We should sign players that we don't believe in, just to prove we've got the cash?

 

I think he means in terms of adding salary on last year or this year, perhaps.

 

Whereas the normal White Sox modus operandi is to shed payroll at mid-season, or for it to be a wash.

 

We have added a few players at mid-season, like Everett or Alomar, but usually they're in their "walk" years. Something more along the lines of, we're going to fix this and go out and spend X amount of money in a long-term contract for Ichiro, Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter, etc.

 

Of course, the move might not work, but anything would be better than sitting back and waiting for the inevitable here.

 

The problem is, we're left to believe in the players we have (we tried this last year, the infamous meeting with KW, Dye/Konerko/Thome) and players told him we didn't need to add anyone to win. Standing pat and doing nothing again this June/July IS making a decision of sorts, and it will have dramatic consequences for this organization's ability to compete down the line if we sit it out as neither a buyer nor seller.

[jackie hayes]

I fully expect the organization to whine all offseason next offseason over contracts. Buehrle's too expensive! Ichiro's too expensive! We have to settle for Grinders!

 

It means that this is a cheap organization at-heart and will revert to it soon, IMO.

Oh, goody. Another The Sox are sooooo cheap! argument backed up by nothing but a hunch.

[Gregory Pratt]

Oh, goody. Another The Sox are sooooo cheap! argument backed up by nothing but a hunch.

 

Well, that and their constant b****ing about how salaries have gone through the roof!

[knightni]

Blum was a free agent who wanted to go back to SD.

[whitesoxfan101]

If we had Aaron Rowand, Neal Cotts, Luis Vizcaino, Geoff Blum, Freddy Garcia, Brandon McCarthy, and El Duque right now instead of Thome, The Pirate, Danks, and Masset, we'd be no better off. The problem isn't our starting pitching, it's our offense, and Blum and Rowand wouldn't be making any difference (and I don't give a damn what Rowand's numbers are right now). The one trade that could blow up on his here is giving up Chris Young, but overall, our problems right now go deeper than not keeping the 2005 core together. Much deeper.

Edited May 20, 2007 by whitesoxfan101