Phil Rogers line of the day

[caulfield12]

I fully expect the organization to whine all offseason next offseason over contracts. Buehrle's too expensive! Ichiro's too expensive! We have to settle for Grinders!

 

It means that this is a cheap organization at-heart and will revert to it soon, IMO.

 

 

It doesn't matter what they actually do, the perception has been created that the fan expect them to go in a certain direction (fire sale, rebuilding, shedding payroll). It was referenced today in one of the Sun-Times articles.

 

Perception is 90% of reality, right?

 

Heck, you could argue the number one sales or "con" job perpetuated on Sox fans is that grinder/underappreciated/cheap players are better than superstar talent, the anti-Yankees. Because this worked in 2005 when we shed Ordonez, Lee and Valentin and added a rag-tag collection of castoffs and "value" players, the organization's selling the idea that Cooper and KW can do it with every single player that comes to the White Sox.

 

Pitcher with problems? Look what Donnie did with Contreras, Loiaza, Marte and Thornton! Bring on Sisco, Aardsma, Logan and Masset!!!

 

Because we won with Uribe and Rowand, there's the new idea that a blue-collar team of Darin Erstads, Mackowiaks and Ozuna's can win the pennant year after year. You can add Pods to that list, too.

 

And who's the anti-Grinder? Well, it's no surprise that Brandon McCarthy and Brian Anderson have been highlighted to play the role of the villains. And there's no bigger division in the Sox fanbase than those who swore that Aaron Rowand was the key difference between 06 and 05 and those who have a radically different belief about Rowand's value to the team. And who's the latest grinder, well, that "natural" baseball player Ryan Sweeney, who meticulously studies every opponent, hustles down the line, reads Malamud and does the NY Times Crossword Puzzle in his sleep, takes the ball the opposite way and always makes intelligent decisions because his "baseball IQ" is so much higher than Anderson.

Edited May 20, 2007 by caulfield12

[jackie hayes]

I think he means in terms of adding salary on last year or this year, perhaps.

 

Whereas the normal White Sox modus operandi is to shed payroll at mid-season, or for it to be a wash.

 

We have added a few players at mid-season, like Everett or Alomar, but usually they're in their "walk" years. Something more along the lines of, we're going to fix this and go out and spend X amount of money in a long-term contract for Ichiro, Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter, etc.

 

Of course, the move might not work, but anything would be better than sitting back and waiting for the inevitable here.

 

The problem is, we're left to believe in the players we have (we tried this last year, the infamous meeting with KW, Dye/Konerko/Thome) and players told him we didn't need to add anyone to win. Standing pat and doing nothing again this June/July IS making a decision of sorts, and it will have dramatic consequences for this organization's ability to compete down the line if we sit it out as neither a buyer nor seller.

Except you aren't asking the Sox to spend X, you're asking them to spend whatever it takes for whoever is out there. Which doesn't seem to be the smartest way to allocate a budget.

 

Of course, maybe there is no budget. Some people tend to think there's $50 mil on a dresser somewhere, but Reinsdorf is just too much of a meanie to give it back. Or multiple $50 millions, I dunno.

 

Advocating the same policy last offseason, I presume you would have outbid for either Pierre or Matthews, right? And then we'd be running away with the division...

 

Well, that and their constant b****ing about how salaries have gone through the roof!

Well, that's much better than looking at the ACTUAL PAYROLL.

[Gregory Pratt]

Well, that's much better than looking at the ACTUAL PAYROLL.

 

It'll go down.

 

Once these contracts go off the books, they're going to start replacing them with crap instead of free agents.

[jackie hayes]

It'll go down.

 

Once these contracts go off the books, they're going to start replacing them with crap instead of free agents.

Just like it has as salaries have exploded over the last decade plus.

 

Tell us what else you see, Nostradamus.

[caulfield12]

Except you aren't asking the Sox to spend X, you're asking them to spend whatever it takes for whoever is out there. Which doesn't seem to be the smartest way to allocate a budget.

 

Of course, maybe there is no budget. Some people tend to think there's $50 mil on a dresser somewhere, but Reinsdorf is just too much of a meanie to give it back. Or multiple $50 millions, I dunno.

 

Advocating the same policy last offseason, I presume you would have outbid for either Pierre or Matthews, right? And then we'd be running away with the division...

Well, that's much better than looking at the ACTUAL PAYROLL.

 

 

Is any Sox fan going to look back at 06 and 07 and say, gee, I'm glad we saved $10 million of X player but didn't even make the least attempt to fix our ballclub and make a run to get into the playoffs?

 

Nobody said anything about $50 million, that's insane...the fact is, the White Sox made an extra $30 million from the 05 playoffs alone, they're flush in cash from new sponsorships, higher advertising rates for WGN due to the ratings, attendance, parking, concessions, increased food sales.

 

Installing the Scout Seats behind home plate added another...supposedly the Scout Seats (sponsored by United) are generating another $3.5 million in sales.

 

White Sox prices are very high across the board for almost everything...you can't tell me the White Sox operated at a net loss last year with almost 3 million in attendance, can you? If you believe that, you're going off JR's numbers and not Forbes or any independent/unbiased outside source.

[jackie hayes]

Is any Sox fan going to look back at 06 and 07 and say, gee, I'm glad we saved $10 million of X player but didn't even make the least attempt to fix our ballclub and make a run to get into the playoffs?

 

Nobody said anything about $50 million, that's insane...the fact is, the White Sox made an extra $30 million from the 05 playoffs alone, they're flush in cash from new sponsorships, higher advertising rates for WGN due to the ratings, attendance, parking, concessions, increased food sales.

 

Installing the Scout Seats behind home plate added another...supposedly the Scout Seats (sponsored by United) are generating another $3.5 million in sales.

 

White Sox prices are very high across the board for almost everything...you can't tell me the White Sox operated at a net loss last year with almost 3 million in attendance, can you? If you believe that, you're going off JR's numbers and not Forbes or any independent/unbiased outside source.

$50 mil is the value of Matthews's contract, and close to the value of Pierre's contract. So.

 

Do you believe the Sox should operate at a net loss every year?

 

Yes, I know the Sox made some money that last couple years (Forbes numbers, about $20 mil, before taxes, etc). Because of the Series run. That's not something that'll happen every year. You throw gobs of money at mediocre players who are maybe slightly better than what you have now, and you're locked into paying that even if they decline and you don't win. Then you have crappy players being paid gobs of money and no hope in sight for 5 years. And I should want a team operated like the Orioles and the Rangers of a few years back?

 

Juan Pierre is just not the difference between this team and a division front-runner.

[CWSGuy406]

Jackie is exactly right here. People complain that the Sox didn't spend money last winter yet don't bring up an actual player. Should the Sox have brought in Alfonso Soriano, an average (at best) LFer -- left-field being the spot where you put your worst defender -- for $130 million? Maybe they should have outbid Houston for Carlos Lee?

 

People are b****ing about something that hasn't happened yet. In JR's past, all the money that has been made has been put directly into the club. When the Sox do well (attendence + revenue wise), the Sox spend money. When the Sox don't do well -- well, lucky for us, it's been almost eight years since the Sox were truly out of it in September. So long as the Sox stay in the race the majority of the way this year, attendence should be strong throughout the summer.

 

This winter, I count four (!) potential free agents who are better than ANY of last winter -- Andruw Jones, Ichiro, A-Rod and Zambrano. That's not to mention two of the best free agents to ever hit the market in the coming winters in Santana and Miggy Cabrera.

 

I would be absolutely STUNNED if the Sox payroll goes down next winter. If they lose Buehrle and Dye and Iguchi, the money will be invested somewhere. Maybe instead of devoting all that lost money to the free agent market, the Sox use all of those compensation picks in the 2008 draft to grab multiple signability-issue prospects.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Rogers is an idiot. Yes, the Vazquez trade will hurt because Vazquez will never be the pitcher that so many thought he would be.

 

And, the only thing that really hurt was giving up Young. But, the rest of the guys are meaningless. I'll bet the Sox sign Rowand in the offseason.

 

The Thome deal was a good one. The guy leads the major leagues in OBP ! He's still pretty healthy and the Sox will start to roll again now that he's back.

[BigSqwert]

Rogers is an idiot. Yes, the Vazquez trade will hurt because Vazquez will never be the pitcher that so many thought he would be.

 

And, the only thing that really hurt was giving up Young. But, the rest of the guys are meaningless. I'll bet the Sox sign Rowand in the offseason.

 

The Thome deal was a good one. The guy leads the major leagues in OBP ! He's still pretty healthy and the Sox will start to roll again now that he's back.

We'll see about that. We know about 2005 and he missed games last year and already this year. He's getting old but I sure hope he can stay healthy for the duration of at least this season.