MMA Thread

[MHizzle85]

Fedor's or should I say M-1's teleconference was a lot of side-stepping and uncertainty. They're hell bent on trying to co-promote & have their name on everything. At this point Fedor should be worried about opponents. The money will go wherever he is.

[SoxFan562004]

What M-1 meant by the UFC's"very generous offer"....

 

By: Carmichael Dave

CBS Radio MMA Host

Twitter.com/Carmichaeldave

 

So we all know the deal with M-1 and what they are saying about co-promotion. I'm not here to say who's right and wrong in this deal, but I can tell you some of the specifics that were offered to Fedor.....

 

- The UFC offered Fedor a 6 fight, 30 million dollar contract. That's 5 mil a fight

 

- The UFC offered Fedor an immediate title shot

 

- Lesnar/Fedor would be the biggest PPV in MMA history (we assume), and the UFC offered M-1 Global a cut of the PPV on top of Fedor's purse.

 

- Fedor was free to wear as many M-1 logoed items as he wished.

 

- The UFC also relented on allowing Fedor to compete in combat sambo.

 

Apparently, for good or bad, M-1 refuses to sign a deal unless the UFC agrees to co-promote.

 

I can tell you right now, the boys at ZUFFA will never, EVER agree to that. So if M-1 doesnt relent on that item alone, the Fedor to UFC talks are dead. Look for Team Emelianenko to turn to Strikeforce next. With co-promotions already in the books with Affliction, that shouldnt be a stopping point.

 

I will have more comprehensive coverage on my show tonight at 9pm PST. You can stream live at Northern California's Sports Station KHTK - Homepage and call toll free at 1-800-920-1140. Twitter updates to the minute at twitter.com/carmichaeldave

 

Updated: 6:55 PST

 

Take that for what it is worth, but if that is anywhere near the truth Fedor and his management is crazy and UFC had caved in on a lot of things.

[zenryan]

Sucks that Fedor is basically a puppet to M-1.

[MHizzle85]

Sucks that Fedor is basically a puppet to M-1.

As long as he's their puppet, his career will be stagnant.

[SoxFan562004]

Dana's presser has started...

 

Said they went above and beyond to get Fedor, everything but co-promotion

 

Belfort inks a UFC deal, will fight Franklin at 103 at 205

 

Tito officially back in the UFC, could fight Coleman for first fight

 

They signed a ESPN UK deal

 

Henderson is next in line for title shot at 185

Edited July 31, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[zenryan]

Dana's presser has started...

 

Said they went above and beyond to get Fedor, everything but co-promotion

 

Belfort inks a UFC deal, will fight Franklin at 103 at 205

 

Tito officially back in the UFC, could fight Coleman for first fight

 

They signed a ESPN UK deal

 

Henderson is next in line for title shot at 185

 

 

Really excited about those 3 nuggets.

[SoxFan562004]

Fedor signed with Strikeforce, obviously they will co-promote with M-1. Dissapointed in this unless Strikeforce beefs up their HW roster. You have Overeem and Rogers who are intriguing fights, past that not much.

 

This will only be something business wise if they get a network deal and the UFC doesn't. Showtime is in that many homes and the matchups aren't really there.

[MHizzle85]

Fedor signed with Strikeforce, obviously they will co-promote with M-1. Dissapointed in this unless Strikeforce beefs up their HW roster. You have Overeem and Rogers who are intriguing fights, past that not much.

 

This will only be something business wise if they get a network deal and the UFC doesn't. Showtime is in that many homes and the matchups aren't really there.

Well doesn't Strikeforce have the deal with CBS? Or was that strictly EliteXC?

 

So Fedor has 3 fights in Strikeforce, Overeem, Rogers & Werdum. *yawns*

[SoxFan562004]

Well doesn't Strikeforce have the deal with CBS? Or was that strictly EliteXC?

 

So Fedor has 3 fights in Strikeforce, Overeem, Rogers & Werdum. *yawns*

I think there's a possability of CBS shows, but nothing guaranteed. There's certainly nothing scheduled

[SoxFanForever]

Well doesn't Strikeforce have the deal with CBS? Or was that strictly EliteXC?

 

So Fedor has 3 fights in Strikeforce, Overeem, Rogers & Werdum. *yawns*

He also has 3 fights left on his contract with M-1 I believe. Wishful thinking I know but it would be nice if he left Finklestein after that time and went to UFC.

[SoxFan562004]

He also has 3 fights left on his contract with M-1 I believe. Wishful thinking I know but it would be nice if he left Finklestein after that time and went to UFC.

He owns 20% of M-1, so I'm guessing he's hoping he catches on in the U.S. via Strikeforce and it makes him a crap load of money, and then if not maybe go to the UFC or destroy another U.S. MMA promotion.

 

He's also 33 or 32 I believe, and HWs fight about 2 times a year. So he's looking at late 33 or 34 when those three fights are done if not longer because he has a history of breaking his hands that make him take longer breaks between fights.

 

In his presser on Friday Dana said that production control is not an issue with any network anymore but HBO. I wouldn't be shocked if when Strikeforce announces Fedor's fight in the fall UFC puts their network debut on the same night or at least a UFN. Tito could fight a can and it would draw huge ratings.

[zenryan]

The more I think about it, the happier I am that Fedor went to StrikeForce. Dana White has been talking s*** about Fedor for years and it was nice to see a top tier fighter finally stick it to Dana. Dana acts like a baby too often and I find it funny that he didnt get his way in this case. Plus it gives the UFC legit competition which is a good thing.

 

Plus outside of Brock, who on the UFC roster would be an exciting matchup with Fedor right now? Werdum,Rogers and Overeem is just as exiciting(for lack of better term) than Carwin, Mir, Cain. Yawn. Couture/Nog fighting Fedor would be like suicide.

 

 

StrikeForce needs to do a deal with CBS for this fall. CBS could throw Fedor's face on promos during the SEC game of the week non-stop and during their sunday NFL coverage for an entire month leading up to a primetime free event. That would be huge IMO.

[MHizzle85]

Today Scott Coker did a radio interview where he gave a few details:

 

-They now have a partnership with Dream.

-Fedor's opponent will be announced Thursday.

-Fedor's contract is for 3 fights over 1 year.

 

The Dream partnership excites me.

[SoxFan562004]

Have to disagree with you Zen about Dana and the UFC. They caved into EVERYTHING but copromoting, which would have been silly to split 50% with M-1. Dana is rough, but he and Zuffa have made MMA a major player in the U.S. The ratings they get for key demos is crazy.

 

As an MMA fan I wanted Fedor in the UFC. It's the dominant promotion in the U.S. and by most, if not all, HW rankings they have more top 10 HWs, with a good chance of Carwin or Velazquez making a jump in the next year or so when Fedor would have been around. Also, don't under sell Dos Santos.

 

The Dream alliance is intriguing, it will add sorely needed depth to Strikeforce hopefully.

 

We'll see, barring a network deal Strikeforce probably won't make a major jump, because as Bodog, Affliction and PRIDE US proved, Fedor alone can't do it. Midafternoon yesterday, after Fedor's deal had been signed and announced for several hours Meltzer reported that top searches for Yahoo that day were "Ultimate Fighter" at #3 and Fedor was at #88. It's one example, but that is some evidince that the signing didn't cause a major buzz amongst casual fans. So now they're going to have to generate a ton of buzz in a few months for a network not many homes get while the UFC will run many events. Also, say he fights Overeem in that fight, the UFC will run the PRIDE footage of Chuck beating him years back. As MMA fans we realize fighters can progress, but the Affliction wearing casual fan will downgrade Overeem (who I believe only has one "win" over a top 10 HW and that was the Cro Cop win). EDIT: Actually it seems the Cro Cop fight was ruled a NC, but I believe Kharitonov was in the top 10 when he beat him.

 

Also, UFC will have plenty of advanced notice, I would not be shocked if they run a UFN on Spike with a pretty decently sized name as a headliner. (As an earlier posts indicates, I wouldn't be shocked if it's Tito vs. a can or a top LW vs. KenFlo if he loses Saturday).

 

As great as a fighter Fedor is, the facts are he hasn't had a major impact in the U.S. marketplace. The Bodog fight against Lindland are reportadly epically low, like under 20k, and the Afflictions weren't huge either, and one can reasonably argue that AA was a bigger US draw than Fedor at that point.

Edited August 5, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[zenryan]

We'll see, barring a network deal Strikeforce probably won't make a major jump, because as Bodog, Affliction and PRIDE US proved, Fedor alone can't do it. Midafternoon yesterday, after Fedor's deal had been signed and announced for several hours Meltzer reported that top searches for Yahoo that day were "Ultimate Fighter" at #3 and Fedor was at #88. It's one example, but that is some evidince that the signing didn't cause a major buzz amongst casual fans. So now they're going to have to generate a ton of buzz in a few months for a network not many homes get while the UFC will run many events. Also, say he fights Overeem in that fight, the UFC will run the PRIDE footage of Chuck beating him years back. As MMA fans we realize fighters can progress, but the Affliction wearing casual fan will downgrade Overeem (who I believe only has one "win" over a top 10 HW and that was the Cro Cop win). EDIT: Actually it seems the Cro Cop fight was ruled a NC, but I believe Kharitonov was in the top 10 when he beat him.

 

Also, UFC will have plenty of advanced notice, I would not be shocked if they run a UFN on Spike with a pretty decently sized name as a headliner. (As an earlier posts indicates, I wouldn't be shocked if it's Tito vs. a can or a top LW vs. KenFlo if he loses Saturday).

 

As great as a fighter Fedor is, the facts are he hasn't had a major impact in the U.S. marketplace. The Bodog fight against Lindland are reportadly epically low, like under 20k, and the Afflictions weren't huge either, and one can reasonably argue that AA was a bigger US draw than Fedor at that point.

 

 

Who knows if SF will make a major jump at the UFC but SF has been the number 2 promotion in the country for awhile now. To compare SF to Affliction and Bodog is pretty unfair since SF has been pretty established for a good while now. Affliction and Bodog tried to do too much too soon.

 

Ugh, dont remind me of that match. I had some nice money on Overeem and he was kicking Cro Cop's ass before Mirko wussed out and faked that injury for NC. This match still pisses me off.

 

Fedor hasnt had a major impact in the US but Affliction never gave him a chance. Plus the Lindland fight was in the early afternoon because it took place in Russia and it wasnt really hyped up outside of message boards.

 

I just hope its Fedor vs Werdum first. Let Fedor maul Werdum and use Overeem/Rogers as a elimination bout. Then you can have something to build hype around for Fedor's second fight.

 

 

[SoxFan562004]

I know Strikeforce has been around for a long time, but they're attempting to make a major jump with a different business model, IMO it's not unfair to compare them. Now the difference might be if the Fedor experiment fails they'll have an established fanbase and operating procedure to catch it, but they and their partners are going to have to lay out serious money to attempt to establish Fedor as a marketable name and attempt to break into network or PPV. It's a whole new world of promotion they're entering. It's a different industry, so please allow me some leeway, but Krispy Kreme was a successful regional donut shop, they tried a national expansion and over expanded and had some early success but a major crash thereafter. Looking at a sport, look at the AFL. Pretty successful, then they tried to partner with ESPN to expand and now they're shutting down. Never underestimate a jump.

 

 

The Dream co-promotion is intriguing, but it goes both ways. Dream will want Diaz, etc. on their shows. A fighter can only fight so many times a year in the U.S. Guys who walk away seemingly unscathed often get 90 day medical suspensions from US ACs, and if you fight during tha suspension, even outside of the US, you run a serious risk of not being licensed again in the US for a long time. Also, if you have Dream co-promoting on a card Fedor is fighting on then you have 3 promoters, which can quickly become a cluster F.

 

The chasm between the UFC and anyone else in the U.S. is insanely large. They're #2 by default but not even in the same league. Actually WEC was doing well before Zuffa bought them and I would imagine rival the box office numbers and viewers Strikeforce does on Showtime.

 

In no way am I rooting against anyone in the situation, I just think with out CBS shows this is a serious uphill battle for this to be a smash success for Fedor/M-1/Strikeforce. Consider they only have Fedor for 1 year at this point.

 

Again, with Werdum, I can guarantee you the UFC would show JDS KO'ing him on a Spike show for weeks leading up to the show and then they will probably put a live show or a rerun of a fresh PPV on the same night.

 

I'm still waiting for them to announce what they'll show next Saturday as Spike has been pretty flexable about them putting things on. I wouldn't be shocked if they put 100 on. The show got enough attention that people won't feel they're getting ripped off by it being shown on standard cable a month later.

 

I don't understand how you're saying Rogers would be a good fight for Fedor and then downplaying Carwin and Cain.

 

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brett-Rogers-16048

 

http://sherdog.com/fighter/Shane-Carwin-14013

 

http://sherdog.com/fighter/Cain-Velasquez-19102

 

Other than his win over AA, who, sorry to say, is not the same fighter he use to be, it's hard to distinguish those records. All 3 good HW prospects, but to say Rogers is somehow a better fight for Fedor at this point, I don't see it. Not to mention if Fedor would have fought in the UFC, Carwin and Rogers would have had another fight or two in the UFC to build their resume.

Edited August 5, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[Kyyle23]

Say Fedor just blows up the competition in Strikeforce, which from what I am reading is very likely, it just seems like he is delaying the inevitable every chance he gets. The top promotion is pretty obvious, there is one fight that is going to make him tons of money, I just hate this dance back and forth with Fedor and UFC. Just get it over with and everyone gets paid

[MHizzle85]

I just hope its Fedor vs Werdum first. Let Fedor maul Werdum and use Overeem/Rogers as a elimination bout. Then you can have something to build hype around for Fedor's second fight.

I think you'd be foolish to book this fight first. You book Fedor/Overeem right out of the gate. You don't risk Fedor or Overeem being upset by someone else.

 

The hype of him being the best heavyweight/P4P in the world is hype enough.

[zenryan]

I don't understand how you're saying Rogers would be a good fight for Fedor and then downplaying Carwin and Cain.

 

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brett-Rogers-16048

 

http://sherdog.com/fighter/Shane-Carwin-14013

 

http://sherdog.com/fighter/Cain-Velasquez-19102

 

Other than his win over AA, who, sorry to say, is not the same fighter he use to be, it's hard to distinguish those records. All 3 good HW prospects, but to say Rogers is somehow a better fight for Fedor at this point, I don't see it. Not to mention if Fedor would have fought in the UFC, Carwin and Rogers would have had another fight or two in the UFC to build their resume.

 

 

Not saying Rogers is better fight than Carwin or Cain. Just saying outside of Brock, there's really no difference in the next top 3-4 fighters in either organization right now. ( I actually would rather see Cain/Carwin fight others like Nog or Randy before getting a title shot.)

 

Plus Carwin hasnt really fought great competition(Rogers hasnt either) outside of Gonzaga. Gonzaga is a good fighter but I'd rank Rogers win over AA as a better win.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2009 by zenryan

[zenryan]

I think you'd be foolish to book this fight first. You book Fedor/Overeem right out of the gate. You don't risk Fedor or Overeem being upset by someone else.

 

The hype of him being the best heavyweight/P4P in the world is hype enough.

 

 

 

Wasnt enough hype for his Affliction bouts to casual MMA fans.

 

I just think you throw Fedor in there against someone who is good but really doesnt pose much of a threat to him. Let casual fans see him destroy someone before creating the best fight possible. Most casual MMA fans dont know who Rogers and Overeem is. Give SF the chance to introduce those guys and create a buzz for the next event.

[MHizzle85]

Wasnt enough hype for his Affliction bouts to casual MMA fans.

 

I just think you throw Fedor in there against someone who is good but really doesnt pose much of a threat to him. Let casual fans see him destroy someone before creating the best fight possible. Most casual MMA fans dont know who Rogers and Overeem is. Give SF the chance to introduce those guys and create a buzz for the next event.

I get where you're coming from, but if I'm Scott Coker then I'm going for broke with Fedor's first time.

 

True about the Affliction bouts...but these fights will be on Showtime. I know not everyone has Showtime, but even if someone that doesn't have it were to go out & get it for the fight, it's only about $15 rather than the $40 PPV.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Prediction time! Who do you guys got? Here are the cards for this weekend (c/o MMA Weekly which I'm not supposed to be able to copy but I can with google chrome):

 

 

UFC 101

 

Main Card Bouts:

-B.J. Penn (13-5-1; #3 Lightweight)* vs. Kenny Florian (12-3; #6 Lightweight)*

-Anderson Silva (24-4; #1 Middleweight)*

vs. Forrest Griffin (18-5; #3 Light Heavyweight)*

-Amir Sadollah (5-0) vs. Johny Hendricks (5-0)

-Ricardo Almeida (10-3) vs. Kendall Grove (12-5)

-Kurt Pellegrino (13-4) vs. Josh Neer (25-7-1)

 

Preliminary Bouts:

-Aaron Riley (27-11-1) vs. Shane Nelson (12-3)

-Tamdan McCrory (11-2) vs. John Howard (11-4)

-Alessio Sakara (13-7) vs. Thales Leites (14-2)

-Matt Riddle (3-1) vs. Dan Cramer (3-1)

-George Sotiropoulos (11-3) vs. Rob Emerson (8-7)

-Jesse Lennox (10-1) vs. Danillo Villefort (9-2)

 

 

WEC 42

 

Main Card Bouts:

-Miguel Torres (37-1; #1 Bantamweight)* vs. Brian Bowles (7-0; #2 Bantamweight)*

-Joseph Benvidez (10-0) vs. Dominick Cruz (13-1)

-Ricardo Lamas (6-0) vs. Danny Castillo (7-1)

-Takeya Mizugaki (11-3-2; #4 Bantamweight)* vs. Jeff Curran (29-11-1)

 

Preliminary Bouts:

-Javier Vazquez (13-2) vs. LC Davis (13-2)

-Leonard Garcia (12-4; #8 Featherweight)* vs. Jameel Massouh (21-5)

-Fredson Paixao (8-3) vs. Cole Province (5-1)

-Marcus Hicks (8-2) vs. Shane Roller (5-2)

-Phil Cardella (8-3) vs. Ed Ratcliff (6-1)

-John Hosman (13-4-1) vs. Rani Yahya (14-4)

-Diego Nunes (12-0) vs. Rafael Dias (12-5-1)

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'm taking:

Penn 4th round stoppage (REALLY rooting for KenFlo and I actually in my heart think he's winning, but can't bet against BJ at 155)

Anderson TKO round 2

Hendricks decision

Almeida sub round 3

Pellegrino decision

Riley via sloppy decision

McCrory 2nd round TKO (love this guy)

Leites 1st round sub

Riddle decision

Emerson decision

Villefort TKO 3rd round

 

Torres KO round 1

Benavidez sub round 2

Lamas decision

Mizugaki KO/TKO round 3

Vazquez sub round 3

Garcia TKO 2nd round

Hicks SD

Paixao sub round 2

Ratcliff decision

Yahya decision

Nunes decision

 

Edit: Really hoping we get to see McCrory-Howard and Lennox-Villefort on the main card of 102. Ditto with Garcia-Massouh, Paixao-Province and Hicks-Roller for the WEC show. And it's f***ing amazing that Showtime-LC Davis is on the prelims. That fight HAS to be bumped up to the main card. I mean I just can't see how it wouldn't be on there and I assume at the last minute they'll announce that fight has been added to the main card.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[MHizzle85]

I'm taking.

 

Penn by TKO in the 4th. (I'm an admitted BJ nuthugger. He's my favorite fighter & I honestly see no way he loses this fight unless he has a mental cramp. Florian's improved, but he's not on BJ's level yet.)

Silva by dec. (It'll be close, but the winner will be whoever can control the fight. It'll be interesting to see what Anderson does with someone who will probably come in at well over 205 on fight night.)

Hendricks by dec. (too much time off for Sadollah.)

Grove by dec.

Neer by dec.

Riley by dec.

McCrory by dec.

Leites, 2nd round sub.

Riddle by dec.

George S., 2nd round sub.

Villefort, 1st round sub.

[zenryan]

Penn TKO 3rd

Silva by UD

Almeida sub 2nd

Amir sub 2nd

Neer UD