MMA Thread

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Carwin is Lesnar's toughest challenge yet and aside from Fedor, IMO Carwin is the toughest challenge Lesnar can have in MMA right now.

 

If Carwin can force Lesnar to stand and trade then Carwin has to be the favorite. I suspect Lesnar is going to try to take a page out of Randy's book and make it strictly a clinch game, trying to keep Carwin pressed up against the fence and sap Carwin's cardio. Lesnar has a pretty nasty clinch game, and by keeping Carwin close in the clinch, Lesnar will be able to take away the majority of Carwin's power by preventing him from loading up. This also would give Lesnar the advantage when they separate, because he's the better athlete and will be able to get out quicker than Carwin would be able to, especially when you consider how slow and telegraphed Carwin's punches are.

 

On the other side of the page though, Carwin isn't going to be easily bullied, although Lesnar should still have the advantage in grappling by being a much better wrestler, a much better athlete, and by being probably a little bit bigger come fight time than Carwin is. Carwin I believe doesn't have to cut much if any weight to make 265 while Lesnar does.

 

This is a really exciting fight and I don't know who to pick, but definitely rooting for Lesnar here and I think he has the advantage if he makes every effort to avoid a slugfest. Whoever wins this fight should have a pretty clear path in the UFC HW division for quite a while, and the winner's toughest opponent will probably be the loser of this fight in a rematch.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Have to add I'm still a bit disappointed that we're not going to see Velasquez-Carwin because I was really excited about seeing Carwin steamroll him and crash the hype train. Ben Rothwell is a solid fighter who definitely deserves to be in the UFC, but I don't think he's going to be able to do much with Cain. Cain is going to take this one and then everybody is going to say the same old s*** again, that Cain is the future and yadda yadda yadda.

 

f***ing Miguel Torres called Velasquez the next great Mexican fighter. I love Miguel, but f***ing come on. Miguel has about 10000X the ability of Velasquez and Miguel isn't small in his own weight class.

[SoxFanForever]

Although I doubt it will happen at this point in his career, I would love to see Cro Cop make a legitimate HW title run. Not sure he has the same speed, skill and desire he did a few years ago though.

 

Agreed about Velasquez. Some of the hype these guys get after a few fights is pretty over the top. You know how it is though, one loss and everyone will say they knew it all along and he will be at the bottom of the heap and forgotten.

[MHizzle85]

Have to add I'm still a bit disappointed that we're not going to see Velasquez-Carwin because I was really excited about seeing Carwin steamroll him and crash the hype train. Ben Rothwell is a solid fighter who definitely deserves to be in the UFC, but I don't think he's going to be able to do much with Cain. Cain is going to take this one and then everybody is going to say the same old s*** again, that Cain is the future and yadda yadda yadda.

It was a fight that made absolutely no sense business wise. Why have your 2 best heavyweight prospects go against each other & have one risk being pushed back this early in their UFC careers? The better move would to be build them up at the same time, with Carwin he's already got his shot coming.

 

Agreed about Velasquez. Some of the hype these guys get after a few fights is pretty over the top. You know how it is though, one loss and everyone will say they knew it all along and he will be at the bottom of the heap and forgotten.

I believe some of this is from the UFC hype machine. Some of their fighters aren't built up correctly anymore. From what I can remember, Jon Fitch would be the only fighter that earned his dues and made a name for himself until he got his title shot. You could say the same for Demian Maia currently.

[MHizzle85]

-The UFC 103 undercard will be shown for free on Spike, Live. (I love this move.)

 

-Yvel has not signed with the UFC.

 

-Earlier in this thread I was told that the UFC had no control over who reffed fights. Big John says different...

Edited August 21, 2009 by MHizzle85

[SoxFan562004]

-The UFC 103 undercard will be shown for free on Spike, Live. (I love this move.)

 

-Yvel has not signed with the UFC.

 

-Earlier in this thread I was told that the UFC had no control over who reffed fights. Big John says different...

To me this is one of those "3 sides to every story" situation... UFC doesn't like Big John and Big John doesn't like UFC.

 

Do they have absolute control? No, the AC has some power, do they have some say? I'm sure they do, but one of the refs who regurally still does UFC matches (can't remember which one, whoever did Lesnar/Mir I) Dana White hates and has said so multiple times in the media

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

To me this is one of those "3 sides to every story" situation... UFC doesn't like Big John and Big John doesn't like UFC.

 

Do they have absolute control? No, the AC has some power, do they have some say? I'm sure they do, but one of the refs who regurally still does UFC matches (can't remember which one, whoever did Lesnar/Mir I) Dana White hates and has said so multiple times in the media

Yeah, that article doesn't do anything but again confirm the lack of power the UFC has over the athletic commissions.

 

The only times the UFC is going to have power is if 1) they're bringing an event to an area where no athletic commission exists and therefore have to enforce the unified rules themselves (which is Marc Ratner's department as I believe he is a former head of NSAC and was involved in everything from the first UFC shows under Zuffa to the Tyson ear-biting incident in boxing), or 2) if there is some bargaining or persuading that needs to go on as far as getting an athletic commission to sanction a fighter, or approve an event, etc. The UFC does not have any say when it comes to things like referees and drug tests. Dana has torn Mazzagatti to shreds publicly before, and he went after Yves Lavigne and Dan Miragliotta before too I believe, yet those three guys are still all over UFC events. Dana has even gone so far as to say Mazzagatti shouldn't have a job as a ref, and yet Mazzagatti gets to ref in high-profile UFC fights. At the same time, although Dana has admitted to being on shaky ground with BJM, Dana has also praised him for his abilities as a ref. So it makes no sense why Dana would use his "powers" to keep Mazzagatti in, who in his mind is pissing him off and ruining his fights, and to keep out a guy in BJM who Dana actually thinks is a great referee. This is all Sherdog-style conspiracy Dana-owns-the-world stuff.

 

If you read that article, it states four important things:

 

-John McCarthy is not licensed in Nevada where the UFC runs the bulk of their shows

-the commissions are the ones that decide upon the referees and are the ones who would either assign him to a UFC card or prevent him from officiating on it

-the commissions will recognize a possible conflict of interest and take that into consideration

-it doesn't sound like BJM's comments in other publications and websites have done him any favors when it comes to NSAC and Keith Kizer, and if a rift exists, this would be the biggest one

Edited August 21, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It was a fight that made absolutely no sense business wise. Why have your 2 best heavyweight prospects go against each other & have one risk being pushed back this early in their UFC careers? The better move would to be build them up at the same time, with Carwin he's already got his shot coming.

 

 

I believe some of this is from the UFC hype machine. Some of their fighters aren't built up correctly anymore. From what I can remember, Jon Fitch would be the only fighter that earned his dues and made a name for himself until he got his title shot. You could say the same for Demian Maia currently.

The hype on Cain is coming from all the AKA guys and really just high-profile MMA fighters in general. Bob Cook, the head honcho at AKA, went on record well before people knew who Cain was and said something to the effect of Cain being the best fighter he's ever been around with the most potential he's ever seen. This is from a guy who also manages Jon Fitch, Josh Koscheck, and Mike Swick among others. If it was just hype from Dana and Rogan it would be one thing because they always hype their fighters, but it's the hype coming from other areas of the business that is so crazy. Cain is a great wrestler who can grind out decisions and has an improving stand-up game, but he's small next to the other huge heavies and he lacks their power, and he hasn't shown to be much of a finisher. Lesnar, Carwin, and Couture are stylistic nightmares for him, and it would be hard to imagine a guy like him laying on top of Nog for 3 rounds without getting subbed.

 

I agree with the top part about not making sense to sacrifice Cain to Carwin and instead build up Cain for a title shot.

[SoxFan562004]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/strikefor...rs-booked-19325

 

....and it's Fedor vs. Rogers. I guess this makes the most sense at this point, Alistair hasn't fought in the U.S. since '07 and is fighting on the next DREAM card anyway.

 

No date or venue, seems like they'll try and do it right before or after a scheduled UFC event to try and make it difficult for them to scheudle a live show against them.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It sucks for Strikeforce that they don't have exclusive rights to guys like Overeem, but they are taking an intelligent approach here and it should pay off. By forging a relationship with other orgs that are losing money, they get to beef up their cards as well as build an association with other fighters and executives of other orgs, which will make it easier on them to assume contracts and fight libraries after the other guys go out of business. Dream has supposedly been losing quite a bit and ratings are way, way down from the Pride heyday, although I think they're on in an unfavorable timeslot over there and they are forced to compete with Sengoku in a market with limited interest and without an abundance of major non-Japanese draws.

 

BTW WTF has gotten into the Sox? 7-0 now. Seems like they're building a cushion for the inevitable Linebrink appearance.

 

Edit: PS the countdown show in on tonight.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Looks like the UFC TV deal is pretty close and they're looking counter Fedor-Rogers with a BJ-Diego title fight.

 

http://mmajunkie.com/news/15992/penn-vs-sa...adcast-deal.mma

[SoxFan562004]

Looks like the UFC TV deal is pretty close and they're looking counter Fedor-Rogers with a BJ-Diego title fight.

 

http://mmajunkie.com/news/15992/penn-vs-sa...adcast-deal.mma

Interesting, it will be big if it's any network, but if it's ESPN/ABC it's enormous.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

MMAJunkie on fire

 

http://mmajunkie.com/news/15993/while-merg...y-real-soon.mma

 

So the TV deal sounds even more likely than it did a few minutes ago, and it sounds like we'll be getting the big-name bantamweights and featherweights in the UFC. I'd have mixed feelings about that because it would really hurt the quality of the WEC broadcasts, which are AWESOME, and the Chael Sonnens of the UFC world water down the excitement of the lighter weight fighters, but at the same time, those bantams and feathers are a great way to showcase tremendous skill and grow the sport, plus those guys deserve to be stars whom are compensated like the other big stars in the company are.

[SoxFan562004]

MMAJunkie on fire

 

http://mmajunkie.com/news/15993/while-merg...y-real-soon.mma

 

So the TV deal sounds even more likely than it did a few minutes ago, and it sounds like we'll be getting the big-name bantamweights and featherweights in the UFC. I'd have mixed feelings about that because it would really hurt the quality of the WEC broadcasts, which are AWESOME, and the Chael Sonnens of the UFC world water down the excitement of the lighter weight fighters, but at the same time, those bantams and feathers are a great way to showcase tremendous skill and grow the sport, plus those guys deserve to be stars whom are compensated like the other big stars in the company are.

Dana sums up many of my feelings on Woman's MMA.

 

The top fighters in the lower weights to UFC might just end up being a business decision because those guys are marketable and the current WEC model doesn't lend itself to them getting paid enough. I think they are at risk of losing those guys to Strikeforce and/or Japan if they don't pay them more, and the easiest way to do that is to bring the top guys into the UFC.

[MHizzle85]

I'm not terribly excited for tomorrow's card for whatever reason. I think it's because I won't be able to watch until much later & I'm trying to convince myself that I won't miss much. So I wont be back in this thread until after I watch a torrent.

 

With that being said, here are my picks.

 

Couture by dec.

Jardine by TKO, rd. 2

Leben by TKO, rd. 2

Maia by dec.

Vera by TKO, rd. 2

[zenryan]

Nog by sub in round 2

Jardine by KO in the 3rd

Rosholt by TKO in the 3rd

Marquardt by UD

Vera by dec

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Lots of interesting fights on this card and I don't know who to pick in a few of them

 

My picks:

 

Couture decision - think his wrestling is going to be the factor and Nog is going to spend the fight against the fence

Jardine decision/KO/TKO - don't think Thiago is going to be able to find him

Tuchscherer TKO - GG has really big problems when wrestlers put him on his back

Russo decision - Russo I think is from the Chicago area, McCully is solid but I think Russo takes a slugfest

Munoz decision - dropping should help him

Aurelio decision

Herman decision

 

Toss-ups:

 

Rosholt-Leben is really tough. Rosholt has an enormous wrestling advantage and should be able to take it if he goes with his bread and butter, but he thinks he's a striker and that's not going to work against Leben. I'm leaning Rosholt because he really needs a win in the UFC so I don't see him f***ing around here.

 

Nate-Maia - this is really tough too and I don't think we know enough about Maia yet. Can he deal with Nate's quickness and speed and striking skill long enough to get him down? If he does it's probably over ASAP. I can't see this going to a decision at all because I don't see Nate keeping the fight standing for 3 rounds and if Nate is going to win it'll probably have to be a 1st round KO/TKO.

 

Krystof-Vera - Vera has the edge in speed, quickness, and in his leg and body kicks, but Vera also folds in big fights. Krystof should have the edge on the ground and he also has the power. I think if Vera wins it'll be a decision but if it's Krystof he'll finish it.

 

Hague-Dufee, don't know enough about them other than Hague has a ton of work to do

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Dana sums up many of my feelings on Woman's MMA.

 

The top fighters in the lower weights to UFC might just end up being a business decision because those guys are marketable and the current WEC model doesn't lend itself to them getting paid enough. I think they are at risk of losing those guys to Strikeforce and/or Japan if they don't pay them more, and the easiest way to do that is to bring the top guys into the UFC.

Great point, however Reed Harris keeps saying that it is like 100% definite that the WEC is going to Mexico, and if they're going to do that, Torres HAS to be on that card, along with probably one of the Brazilian guys (probably Aldo) and at least one big-name American like Faber or Brown. Leonard Garcia would be a lock too.

 

Maybe they'll go to Mexico first and then shift the big names over. Or, maybe they instead have the UFC go over there and showcase Torres in the main event. Actually, a Torres-Bowles rematch in a co-main along with Velasquez-Lesnar/Carwin would be a huge show down there. But either way I definitely think they're going to Mexico soon after the ratings they've been getting down there. I think Dana said they ran a recap show that was basically like the Mexican version of Unleashed and it outperformed the country's soccer team in the ratings.

[zenryan]

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Edited August 30, 2009 by zenryan

[zenryan]

spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, didnt think Nogueira would dominate position like that tonight. 2 awesome sweeps and getting Randy's back. I do think Nog screwed up in the first round when he knocked Randy down and instead of going for the TKO, he went for the sub. He couldve finished it with strikes IMO. Unless the arm is just hanging out there, it's really not worth going for a sub in that situation. Either way great night for Nog. Dont know what Randy can do now but if he wants to fight at heavyweight, I wouldnt mind seeing him fight Mir. Or maybe move down to fight Tito at 205 early next year. Just dont want to see him against some of the bigger, stronger heavyweights.

[SoxFan562004]

Great main event and a very entertaining night of fights.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I hope this fight shuts up all the people who insisted both Randy and Nog were done after their last fights. The Nog last night beats Frank Mir in a rematch IMO (and I hope that happens) and the Randy who lost to Brock was still a very good fighter, however he was way overmatched by the #2 HW in the world. No shame in that.

 

Also, I can't believe there were so many quick 1st round KO's on one card! Going now to check who got KO of the night, but I hope everyone with finishes got bonuses, and I imagine they did.

[SoxFan562004]

In the post fight conference Dana announced Randy signed a six fight extension replacing the contract he was on. I assume that was given to keep him away from Strikeforce and because even at 46 he is still in excellent shape and capable of hanging with top fighters.

 

It's still unknown if he will fight at HW or at 205.

[zenryan]

Two things I wonder.

 

1. I wonder how many fight times Couture will actually fight. That 6 fight/28 month deal seems too much like a NFL contract where we all know the player wont finish.

 

2. I wonder if Dana will give Randy some "easier" fights at some point to pad his record. His record is 16-10 and he could possibly go 2-4 during this contract and retire with a less than appealing 18-14 record. Doesnt seem like it would be fair.

 

[MHizzle85]

Couture/Nog was easily a FOTY candidate. Great show put on by both men. After this performance if Lesnar didn't have a match, I'd easily make Lesnar/Nog for November or December.

 

Thiago went back to doin' work. I say since Vera's got this new found attitude, let's put him in there against Thiago.

 

Marquardt with a beautiful KO. So since this was impressive, do you still give Hendo the shot? Or do you have them fight for a "true" #1 contender.

 

Fun card of fights.