MMA Thread

[MHizzle85]

Thoughts about last night & the upcoming fights.

 

Lytle/Davis sure did have enough hype around it. Somewhat entertaining but for someone who said he wanted to bang for 3 rounds, Davis sure did shy away from that.

 

I hope Kang isn't a PRIDE bust. I will say he dominated Belcher in that 1st round.

 

I swear Jeremy Horn gets off on getting his ass kicked, I also believe Palhares has no killer instinct whatsoever.

 

Rua/Coleman was awful IMO. Coleman looked like an animal being ready to be put to sleep out there. Rua looked awful as well. No one came from this fight looking like a winner. Just imagine if we got that Coleman/Lesnar fight about 5 months ago. Coleman should retire, Rua should be fired. I also loved how he says in the interview "Now i'll work harder." You would think wanting to be on top of your game would be enough...

 

Hendo/Franklin was the only thing that was worth watching on the card, even if Henderson layed on him a bit. No clue what the judge that scored the bout 30-27 was watching. Only question is where does Franklin go from here?

 

Rampage/Jardine...you serious? Give Rampage his title shot already.

 

Shogun/Iceman...few years too late. I really hope this won't be headlining a card.

 

SoxFan562004, I think it would be a bit much to have 5 rounds for a non-title. Especially when you get fights like Coleman/Rua, which I think would of gone all 5 and I'd probably be asleep by the middle of the 4th.

 

 

 

 

[GoodAsGould]

Why should Rampage get a title shot already, he only has had 1 fight since losing it. Give him 1 more fight and than if he wins that Im all for giving him another shot.

[MHizzle85]

Why should Rampage get a title shot already, he only has had 1 fight since losing it. Give him 1 more fight and than if he wins that Im all for giving him another shot.

Because the fight he lost was extremely close, I still think it should of been a draw. Why jump someone over him who is less deserving?

[GoodAsGould]

Because the fight he lost was extremely close, I still think it should of been a draw. Why jump someone over him who is less deserving?

 

It was close but I thought for sure Griffin won, and I think you should win atleast a couple fights before getting another title match. Something that shouldn't be given but earned.

[zenryan]

It was close but I thought for sure Griffin won, and I think you should win atleast a couple fights before getting another title match. Something that shouldn't be given but earned.

 

 

If Lesnar can get a title shot for beating Herring, Rampage should def. get a title shot now.

 

 

The UFC needs to come up with some sort of ranking system. I'm sure Liddell is closer to a title shot right now than Henderson right now and I dont think thats right. The LHW division is becoming so deep that its basically a crapshoot on who deserves what.

Edited January 19, 2009 by zenryan

[GoodAsGould]

If Lesnar can get a title shot for beating Herring, Rampage should def. get a title shot now.

 

 

The UFC needs to come up with some sort of ranking system. I'm sure Liddell is closer to a title shot right now than Henderson right now and I dont think thats right. The LHW division is becoming so deep that its basically a crapshoot on who deserves what.

 

Thats because UFC is trying to shove Lesnar down our throats, he definitely didnt deserve the title fight, although he is fun as hell to watch fight.

[MHizzle85]

If Lesnar can get a title shot for beating Herring, Rampage should def. get a title shot now.

 

 

The UFC needs to come up with some sort of ranking system. I'm sure Liddell is closer to a title shot right now than Henderson right now and I dont think thats right. The LHW division is becoming so deep that its basically a crapshoot on who deserves what.

Agreed. I'd hate to think this, but if Liddell were to beat Shogun in April I wouldn't be shocked to see Evans/Liddell II. When in reality it should be Rampage then the winner of the Machida/Silva fight, then Liddell

 

Thats because UFC is trying to shove Lesnar down our throats, he definitely didnt deserve the title fight, although he is fun as hell to watch fight.

I will say that it may be due to the fact that the heavyweight division is kind of thin.

[zenryan]

Instead of stacking the smaller weight divisions, the UFC needs to go spend the money to add some depth to the heavyweights. Fedor is a long shot, Barnett wont go to the UFC, so maybe get AA back in there. Maybe a name for the future might be Roger Gracie. The guy is unreal on the ground and if he can win a few more fights, he might be worth a shot. Just his name would create a lot of interest. Problem is the Japanese just love the Gracie named fighters and probably pay a big chunk of change.

 

 

On a side note, I think the UFC got VERY lucky that Mark Coleman injured his knee before the Lesnar fight. That would have been a horrible outcome for Coleman.

[zenryan]

Arlovski is getting $1 million according to Yahoo!

 

Affliction cant stay in business that long if this is the case.

 

link

[SoxFan562004]

Arlovski is getting $1 million according to Yahoo!

 

Affliction cant stay in business that long if this is the case.

 

link

I would have to check sherdog's archives, but Tom Attencio (one of the guys who is running the Affliction cards) basically said as much around the first card. He said they were going to run 3 cards and see how everything is at that point, but he basically said they won't throw money into it forever. Also, I know Trump is involved, but he won't support a company that's bleeding money for too many shows and it's debatable how much he actually has to do with Affliction.

 

The real PPV numbers, not the ones Affliction will throw around, will obviously be important. If they are stagnant or drop it might spell an early end for Affliction. If it raises, even a little, I think buy a few more cards, especially if they can sign Tito who is still a draw. Affliction or Zuffa don't have to release PPV numbers so you really can't believe what they say, usually Meltzer is the go to, trusted guy. Since his main coverage is pro wrestling he has great sources in the PPV area that he's had for years. Also, you start running into the problem of good matchups for Fedor. Arlovski is a legit matchup and so is Barnett who is fighting Gilbert Yvel on the card to probably set up that match. Once you get past that who does Fedor fight that is of much interest? Tito can fight him at HW, wouldn't be very competative, but to casual MMA fans it's a matchup they'll watch. Cro Cop with another win or two in Japan, but US fans probably will see him as a guy who failed in the UFC. UFC castoffs? AA was popular in the UFC, but what heavyweight will they let go that would have casual fan interest? I'm probably missing somebody, but stuff isn't popping to my head right now.

 

You can play around with ticketmaster.com and see that ticket sales aren't the greatest for Affliction, they didn't economy proof their prices like the boxing match in Staples the same night did, which ended up basically a legit sell out. I e-mailed Meltzer about what he's hearing for ticket sales and he said Affliction is saying they're fine but he's skeptical, although he said he expects the place to be full or near full, I assume he thinks they will discount tickets and paper it.

 

The card is in a weird place timewise, I think PPVs can do fine in bad economies because if you get 5 people to watch it it's 10 bucks a piece, throw in antoher 10 bucks for food and drinks and you're only talking a $20 night and if you believe Meltzer's numbers for the Nov and Dec UFCs, somewhere around 1m each, it shows that good cards can still do well. I was thinking more of along the lines of being between two UFCs, one of which they're pushing the hell out of.

 

I'm a HUGE MMA fan and I'm not going to get it at my house. I got the one last weekend and will get the St. Pierre Penn fight if my friend doesn't. Even in good economic times an extra $100 on a cable bill is enough, I don't want to do $150, especially since a lot of my friends who are casual MMA fans aren't willing to eat 3 weekends in a row to watch MMA and the one they'll miss is Affliction. Looks like my friend will get it or I'll go to a bar to watch it.

[zenryan]

3 straight weekends of PPV's is a bit much. Plus I'm going to a local show the 30th so I'm really having to pick and choose what to buy this month. I passed on last weekend's UFC so I'll probably get the Affliction and the Super Bowl weekend UFC.

 

 

 

[MHizzle85]

On the Affliction front it appears a lot of bars are shying away from showing this PPV. I thought about going back to the burbs to catch it at a Buffalo Wild Wings but a friend of mine who works there said they aren't showing it. I've also not been able to find one in the city that's showing it.

[zenryan]

On the Affliction front it appears a lot of bars are shying away from showing this PPV. I thought about going back to the burbs to catch it at a Buffalo Wild Wings but a friend of mine who works there said they aren't showing it. I've also not been able to find one in the city that's showing it.

 

 

 

I read somewhere that it costs bars a lot of money to show PPV events. The capacity of the bar dictates how much it will cost to show the PPV. With the UFC the following weekend, I'm sure most owners are going to just wait for that event. Plus the casual UFC fan doesnt really know about other events so the crowd will probably be smaller for Affliction.

[zenryan]

Fedor might have the best power punch in MMA history.

 

Fedor looked a little off but AA was looking really good until getting careless.

 

 

Vitor's KO was brutal. I really like Belfort and I hope he gets on a roll.

 

That Barnett/Yvel fight was pretty good. Especially the end of the first round.

 

 

Good night of fights.

[Kyyle23]

Lindland was in another world for a few minutes tonite. WOW

[zenryan]

Ive watched the Arlovski/Fedor match a few more times now and I take back what I originally said.

 

 

Fedor didnt look off. Looked more like someone feeling out the range and made an adjustment to counter AA.

 

Arlovski really didnt land anything that would be of threat. Just some nice glancing shots but nothing of substance.

 

 

 

[MHizzle85]

Caught only the Fedor/AA & Belfort/Lindland fights on mmalinker.com

 

Um, insane is how I can describe the punches there. Where does Fedor go from here?

[Kyyle23]

Ive watched the Arlovski/Fedor match a few more times now and I take back what I originally said.

 

 

Fedor didnt look off. Looked more like someone feeling out the range and made an adjustment to counter AA.

 

Arlovski really didnt land anything that would be of threat. Just some nice glancing shots but nothing of substance.

 

Fedor baited Arlovski into that punch. He bounced off the rope like he was punch drunk and when Arlovski launched himself Fedor was waiting for his chin.

[SoxFan562004]

Caught only the Fedor/AA & Belfort/Lindland fights on mmalinker.com

 

Um, insane is how I can describe the punches there. Where does Fedor go from here?

He fights Barnett next, then it's really up in the air.

 

The production was better this time, not top notch, but the first one was like a high school AV club was running production. The live crowd booed Tito every single time he did an interview.

 

It will be interesting to see where Affliction goes from here. They need to sign more fighters to run more shows. They attempted to run a card in, i believe Oct or Nov in Vegas but without Fedor on it and they shut it down and put this card in Anaheim. They hinted the UFC was throwing roadblocks with sponsors in Vegas, but PRIDE ran 2 sold out shows in Vegas with Fedor heading one and Wanderlei heading the other. Meltzer said there were only about 10k last night, and some of those are going to be comps. (Update, mmapayout.com had attendance at a little over 13k, which I believe is less than the first event, but I believe that includes total attendance so no word on gate numbers.) They need to get on HBO with their Golden Boy connections or get a CBS deal, then they can use the M-1 guys for shows on there, and promote the hell out of their PPVs with Fedor. The problem is Fedor's guys who run M-1 want a ton of control, hence why he hasn't signed the very cumbersome UFC contracts even though reports have it that they offerred Fedor the most money in a UFC contract ever. CBS basically ran the CBS shows, again why the UFC turned them down and why the UFC turned HBO down, they don't want to hand over production control. I don't think this will happen, but there's a small chance that if the live gate sucked and the PPV numbers tanked that this was the last Affliction show, but I still think they run at least one more no matter what.

 

Around the first event Attencio said they would run about 3 shows with the current business plan and evaluate so they probably have one more of paying high high salaries, and that will be the Barnett/Fedor card, they may try to sign Tito so he draws some mainstream buys. It showed up a little last night because Yvel, while he took a hell of a beating, isn't in the same league as Barnett and it was really a one sided beatdown.

 

They have some very good top fighters, but not enough. Who does Babalu fight next? Who does Belfort fight next? I guess they could fight each other but Belfort doesn't look great at 205 and is reborn at 185. All the Elite XC guys are hung up with contract issues right now, so there might be a few names they can pick up there, but no real HWs. Antonio Silva had his fight licensed yanked by the CSAC because he fought on NYE in Japan when he was on medical suspension. I imagine the UFC will go after a few of those guys too.

 

It will be interesting to see the medical report from the CSAC because Fedor has a tendancy to break his hands quickly, he did in the Sylvia fight and that's one of the reasons it took from July to Jan for him to fight.

 

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...3&zoneid=13

 

Wow, 3.8m in fighter salaries (and ignore the Fedor # he gets a cut of the PPV and through M-1. They can't run too many more shows with a number like that. It's great for the fighters, but it's unrealistic, unless they boom in business, that Affliction can keep that payroll up

Edited January 25, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[SoxFan562004]

WEC on Vs tonight. If you're new to MMA you should watch, usually those cards are very entertaining.

 

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...7&zoneid=14

 

They are also running a show in Chicago in April, I believe it's at the UIC Pavillion

[MHizzle85]

WEC on Vs tonight. If you're new to MMA you should watch, usually those cards are very entertaining.

 

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...7&zoneid=14

 

They are also running a show in Chicago in April, I believe it's at the UIC Pavillion

Sadly I don't have the VS. network

[SoxFan562004]

WEC was a good card, a little marred by the end of the main event, but it still was a good fight.

 

http://mmapayout.com/2009/01/affliction-da...reckoning-gate/

 

Looks like Affliction dropped in attendance and they papered the hell out of that event. A 1.5m gate on a 3.8m reported payroll may hurt, but PPV will tell a big chunk of it. Link mentions that Affliction's early reports are stronger than expected numbers, but 1) it's too early and 2) whatever Affliction of Zuffa ever says about PPV disregard, Meltzer usually has the best numbers.

[longshot7]

There were a lot of empty seats for the Affliction ppv - but look at the economy.

 

 

Maybe people we were waiting like I was to go to Penn/St. Pierre 2. Look out Vegas!!

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/1/29/74036...liction-is-done

 

Rumors are that Affliction's next card will be their last, if they even can afford to put it on. This of course could be seen coming a thousand miles away. Affliction's model was even worse than EliteXC's model. I thought EXC's main f*** ups were wasteful spending and failure to develop the local organizations they acquired like ICON and Cage Rage as well as the decision to promote Kimbo. But Affliction's model was even worse, in fact far worse. They should have gone with small shows first and looked to create a niche, or should have offered to purchase Strikeforce, ICON, and Cage Rage when all three were on the market.

 

Affliction's plan was so bad because they had to spend a ton of money on fighter contracts as well as foot the bill for everything else, including the arenas, production costs, staffing, etc. The reason the UFC can pay their fighters much less in contracts is because they have such a powerful promotional vehicle that they can get sponsors to make up most of the income for the fighters. Affliction had to promote their own events which could never rival Zuffa's promotional machine PLUS they had to cover production costs PLUS they had to pay base salaries AND cover sponsorship fees because sponsors aren't going to offer Zuffa fighter-type sponsorships to Affliction fighters with much less visibility. It was just a failed idea from the getgo. Had they started off small they could have puchased already successful local promotions with infrastructures already in place, worked out a deal with HDNet or something, put all their organizations under one umbrella to allow their fighters to go back and forth between promotions, and so on.

 

IMO, the best way to tackle Zuffa if you really want to is the old territory style of pro-wrestling. Back before McMahon began swallowing up all the territories you had wrestlers who would go from promotion to promotion and in the old NWA system there were even common titles. With these local promotions out there for sale and not turning a huge profit or anything, a company with the backing of Affliction could easily jump in and immediately dig into a local market where local promoters are packing the house. Add a TV deal to that and it would be golden. If Affliction did something like that, especially with HDNet around wanting to run MMA programming but not being granted footage from Zuffa, Affliction could have captured enough of the small show scene to strong-arm HDNet into give them favorable coverage over anything else. They could have had their own titles under a system like that as well and wouldn't have had to use WAMMA, plus they wouldn't appear to be quite as threatening to Zuffa that way which would have prevented Zuffa from spending money to counter them every time they wanted to put a show on.

 

I'm ranting, but the model was just bad. Piss poor. It's like they didn't think any of this through at all. I knew they'd go under as soon as they announced their plans. Now their only hopes are that the Zuffa doesn't continue to disallow Affliction brands during Zuffa events. If Zuffa continues to shut them out then in this economy Affliction is going to have to make major headway in another non-MMA market or they'll go down completely. Affliction's just not going to be able to recoup their losses off more T-shirts if Zuffa continues to allow other brands the spotlight. The whole thing was just a terrible move all the way around by Affliction. Their only saving grace is that Attencio has been around a while and has worked hard not to badmouth the UFC, so maybe enough of a relationship exists to where Affliction can get back into the Octagon. Supposedly the UFC now wants a stake in Affliction to make that happen. No surprise there. Just smart business by the UFC, although I believe they have a stake in TapouT as well, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

WEC on Vs tonight. If you're new to MMA you should watch, usually those cards are very entertaining.

 

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...7&zoneid=14

 

They are also running a show in Chicago in April, I believe it's at the UIC Pavillion

Miguel Torres will be on that card fighting Brian Bowles in what may be the fight of the year. I second your comment that new fans should watch the WEC shows. Miguel Torres has become one of my favorite fighters in any weight class in any promotion in the world. The guy is f***ing amazing. And the fact that his fights are on basic cable for most is such a great deal. Mostly people talk about Anderson, BJ, GSP, Fedor, etc. but the WEC has Torres and Faber who are right up there as two of the best P4P fighters in the world, and those guys don't cost any extra money to watch. The WEC is kind of like a little secret still, so get in on it now because as soon as people start to figure out how awesome the feather and batamweights are it's going to get expensive to watch.