MHizzle85 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Penn/GSP II is almost here! Picks time. Penn over GSP Silva over Machida Karo over Kim Bonner over Jones Diaz over Guida (sleeper fight of the night) Fitch over Gono (should be on the televised card) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:12 AM) IMO, the best way to tackle Zuffa if you really want to is the old territory style of pro-wrestling. Back before McMahon began swallowing up all the territories you had wrestlers who would go from promotion to promotion and in the old NWA system there were even common titles. With these local promotions out there for sale and not turning a huge profit or anything, a company with the backing of Affliction could easily jump in and immediately dig into a local market where local promoters are packing the house. Add a TV deal to that and it would be golden. If Affliction did something like that, especially with HDNet around wanting to run MMA programming but not being granted footage from Zuffa, Affliction could have captured enough of the small show scene to strong-arm HDNet into give them favorable coverage over anything else. They could have had their own titles under a system like that as well and wouldn't have had to use WAMMA, plus they wouldn't appear to be quite as threatening to Zuffa that way which would have prevented Zuffa from spending money to counter them every time they wanted to put a show on. see StrikeForce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Helio Gracie dead at 95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...9&zoneid=14 Penn Machida Kim (That's if "The Heat" shows up and doesn't have another panic attack!) Bonner Diaz Fitch I agree that Fitch should be on the televised card, but Bonner has name recognition and they think the Diaz/Guida fight will be more exciting. If there's anything to the Fitch fight that will be the first undercard fight they show on the PPV. I love Guida, but I think Diaz via submission early in second. Diaz is very good. Machida with another "elusive" decision. and Penn via decision.... Mhizzle, how do you have the main event ending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I want Penn to win but I think GSP will be too big and strong. GSP by decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 12:12 AM) IMO, the best way to tackle Zuffa if you really want to is the old territory style of pro-wrestling. Back before McMahon began swallowing up all the territories you had wrestlers who would go from promotion to promotion and in the old NWA system there were even common titles. With these local promotions out there for sale and not turning a huge profit or anything, a company with the backing of Affliction could easily jump in and immediately dig into a local market where local promoters are packing the house. Add a TV deal to that and it would be golden. If Affliction did something like that, especially with HDNet around wanting to run MMA programming but not being granted footage from Zuffa, Affliction could have captured enough of the small show scene to strong-arm HDNet into give them favorable coverage over anything else. They could have had their own titles under a system like that as well and wouldn't have had to use WAMMA, plus they wouldn't appear to be quite as threatening to Zuffa that way which would have prevented Zuffa from spending money to counter them every time they wanted to put a show on. The odd thing and difficult thing with Zuffa's success is their insanely loyal fanbase. Look at the numbers they get from TUF, the countdown shows, and Fight Nights, they are not crazy high numbers. The thing UFC has going for them is an insanely large percentage of their core viewing audience buys the PPVs and their key demo is the most coveted Look at TNA or even WWE. TNA is on Spike to and get similar if not better ratings than the UFC, but get significantly less PPV buys. Same as WWE, they'll pull double the UFC ratings but, except for their major shows, get less than half of UFCs buy-rate. I have to review some of the meltzer numbers, but usually a good UFC PPV does about 400k, give or take 100k, while a great card does around 900k, again give or take. Actually, if GSP/St. Pierre II does around 900k that will be 3 out of 4 ppvs that do a mega level (Lesnar/Couture, Big Nog/Mir and 94). Both with ticket sales and PPV buys the UFC has yet to be really touched by the economic downturn. With all that said, it's going to be extremely difficult for any promotion to make a significant dent in the UFC empire. For better or for worse, the UFC = MMA in the U.S. so there's not a lot of casual fans to grab. PRIDE attempted to do it with shows in Vegas and a weekly show on FSN, ELITE XC tried a gimmick fighter and a show on CBS and now Affliction is trying by running shows at a loss. If anyone challenges UFC in the future it will take a regular show on TV, such as ESPN or the like, with quarerly big cards on CBS, HBO or Showtime. I heard CBS was still interested in MMA so there's a possibility someone can grab them. Even with that there has to be some luck mixed in, UFCs huge break came in that the first season of TUF did good ratings then the Griffin/Bonner fight was off the charts exciting, even having the weird phenomenon of ratings increasing during the 15 minute fight. Let's say the stars allign for Affliction or another promotion and they get a CBS show, if most of the fights are lay and pray borefests it could cripple them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...9&zoneid=14 Penn Machida Kim (That's if "The Heat" shows up and doesn't have another panic attack!) Bonner Diaz Fitch I agree that Fitch should be on the televised card, but Bonner has name recognition and they think the Diaz/Guida fight will be more exciting. If there's anything to the Fitch fight that will be the first undercard fight they show on the PPV. I love Guida, but I think Diaz via submission early in second. Diaz is very good. Machida with another "elusive" decision. and Penn via decision.... Mhizzle, how do you have the main event ending? Diaz's ju jitsu is amazing. I can't wait to see this fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) I love Guida, but I think Diaz via submission early in second. Diaz is very good. Machida with another "elusive" decision. and Penn via decision.... Mhizzle, how do you have the main event ending? I'm gonna say BJ by submission, 2nd round. I honestly think GSP needs to have THE perfect fight in order to win this one. And I don't really see that unless BJ completely gasses in the championship rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:25 PM) The odd thing and difficult thing with Zuffa's success is their insanely loyal fanbase. Look at the numbers they get from TUF, the countdown shows, and Fight Nights, they are not crazy high numbers. The thing UFC has going for them is an insanely large percentage of their core viewing audience buys the PPVs and their key demo is the most coveted Look at TNA or even WWE. TNA is on Spike to and get similar if not better ratings than the UFC, but get significantly less PPV buys. Same as WWE, they'll pull double the UFC ratings but, except for their major shows, get less than half of UFCs buy-rate. I have to review some of the meltzer numbers, but usually a good UFC PPV does about 400k, give or take 100k, while a great card does around 900k, again give or take. Actually, if GSP/St. Pierre II does around 900k that will be 3 out of 4 ppvs that do a mega level (Lesnar/Couture, Big Nog/Mir and 94). Both with ticket sales and PPV buys the UFC has yet to be really touched by the economic downturn. With all that said, it's going to be extremely difficult for any promotion to make a significant dent in the UFC empire. For better or for worse, the UFC = MMA in the U.S. so there's not a lot of casual fans to grab. PRIDE attempted to do it with shows in Vegas and a weekly show on FSN, ELITE XC tried a gimmick fighter and a show on CBS and now Affliction is trying by running shows at a loss. If anyone challenges UFC in the future it will take a regular show on TV, such as ESPN or the like, with quarerly big cards on CBS, HBO or Showtime. I heard CBS was still interested in MMA so there's a possibility someone can grab them. Even with that there has to be some luck mixed in, UFCs huge break came in that the first season of TUF did good ratings then the Griffin/Bonner fight was off the charts exciting, even having the weird phenomenon of ratings increasing during the 15 minute fight. Let's say the stars allign for Affliction or another promotion and they get a CBS show, if most of the fights are lay and pray borefests it could cripple them. I agree that to ever really challenge the UFC another promotion would have to have a strong TV deal, but the most important part is growing a fanbase. You're exactly right about the UFC's loyal fanbase which is why no one can just jump in and hemorrhage money until things start to turn around. IMO, a territory kind of system where one company ran several smaller but solvent promotions would be ideal because you could grow your brand locally and kind of attach yourself to the underground scene and carve out your own niche that way. Then as it grows, over time, you take small steps here and there. You'd be developing young fighters along in the process, and those young fighters would inevitably go on to find success in the bigger UFC, but you'd also accumulate a fight library of those fighters, so you'd be able to sell DVD's and lease out fight footage to other promotions and so on. Like, first you run the small shows and rely heavily on cheap internet ads, word of mouth advertising, and flyers. Then you begin to release DVD's on a website or something and in special stores, and simple promotional merchandise like t-shirts and so on, all the way up to a television deal which IMO should always be one of the last steps. Companies should only go for TV deals once they KNOW they have an audience and once they KNOW they can run a solvent promotion without them. Otherwise they end up panicking when the ratings don't come in, and then they spend more money looking to boost those rantings, and then they end up having to borrow money and having to fork over creative control and/or even majority control over the business, ala EXC. Everyone is going to fail going about it the way EXC, Affliction, Bodog, and the WFA have. No one wants to wait. No one wants to respect the sport enough to realize that it needs to be nurtured and developed locally first, despite all the claims these promoters make. They all play like they're the good guys going up against the big, bad Zuffa empire, when in reality they're just a bunch of greedy morons who can't learn from the mistakes of those others before them. When the UFC started out they had the edge because there was no industry around to combat them, but of course they had to battle legislators, stigmas, and athletic commissions, both in the early days under SEG and still to this day under Zuffa. Still though, they didn't have competition here trying to take them down. But if you look at what happens with other businesses, what has always happened is you have some small business that produces a good product and expands slowly until they're big enough to expand further and eventually become a major force. McDonalds didn't become what it is today just overnight, and the same thing has to apply to every other business out there. McDonalds, like Quiznos and I believe Subway too among others, had a brilliant franchising model that, in conjuction with a popular product, found them success, and MMA could do that too. Imagine if Strikeforce took their model and bought out other local promotions and basically franchised Strikeforce. And using the wrestling example, WCW didn't just pop up, it was the NWA which had been around forever, and even TNA went with the NWA name at first and used NWA indie wrestlers along with guys that ECW, WCW, and WWF at the time had promoted. And with pro wrestling, when Vince bought up ECW and WCW both companies were still drawing and had huge fanbases, so naturally Jarret & co. knew they'd have people who wanted a WWE alternative. But with MMA, there's no reason for ANYONE to believe that MMA fans in North America want a UFC alternative, in fact even thinking that is assinine, considering this all started growing off the shoulders of TUF 1 which only freaking premiered 4 years ago this month. Most MMA fans on this continent are post-TUF 1 fans who've been educated by the UFC only. So anyway, I'm ranting again, and the rumors of Affliction going under were said to be bogus, but I still believe them. Affliction will run one more show tops and then they're going down. Their business plan was a massive failure from the beginning. It is not wise to jump in and blow wads of cash just hoping that eventually you'll hit a break-even point. And, it's never worked in this market in MMA history either. When popular undercard fighters like Clay Guida, Akihiro Gono, and even young, relatively unknown (to the casual fan) champions like Rashad Evans become as well known nationally as their MLB, NFL, and NBA counterparts are, then that is when a company will be able to jump in and waste loads of money looking for an audience. They'll probably fail then too, but they'll have a much, much better shot of having some kind of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) My picks: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn - this one is really hard to pick, damn... head says GSP round 4 TKO, heart says BJ round 2 TKO... but I think there's a finish here either way Lyoto Machida vs. Thiago Silva - Machida, GNP TKO, round 2, KOOTN Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim - Dong via elbows, round 2 TKO Nathan Diaz vs. Clay Guida - Diaz via triangle choke, round 3 + FOTN + SOTN Stephan Bonnar vs. Jon Jones - Bonnar, RNC round 2 Jon Fitch vs. Akihiro Gono - Fitch, UD + darkhorse FOTN Jake O'Brien vs. Christian Wellisch - O'Brien, UD Chris Wilson vs. John Howard - Wilson, UD Manny Gamburyan vs. Thiago Tavares - Thiago, UD Matt Arroyo vs. Dan Cramer - don't know or care Edited January 31, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (zenryan @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 07:02 AM) see StrikeForce. Strikeforce is the only MMA promotion in the states that has a TV deal and has gone about it the right way. PFC looks pretty good too because they stream their shows through Sherdog (although I've never watched them because I tried and it was choppy as hell). It seems like most fans always expect Affliction, EXC, Bodog, etc. to be the ones to stick around and make their marks. I'd bet on Strikeforce, the PFC, or any one of those shows up in Canada to do it well before I'd bet on the money pissers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn - heart says BJ round 4 TKO but I'll go with my head and say GSP by split decision Lyoto Machida vs. Thiago Silva - Machida UD Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim - Kim by 3rd round stoppage Nathan Diaz vs. Clay Guida - Clay by decision. I dislike the Diaz brothers Stephan Bonnar vs. Jon Jones - Bonnar by TKO in the 1st Jon Fitch vs. Akihiro Gono - Gono TKO in 2nd Jake O'Brien vs. Christian Wellisch - O'Brien by split Chris Wilson vs. John Howard - Wilson by UD Manny Gamburyan vs. Thiago Tavares - Thiago by KO in 2nd Matt Arroyo vs. Dan Cramer - Cramer b/c he's from ATT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Heres the stream Im using if anyone wants to watch the fight http://www.justin.tv/wmrhd1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 31, 2009 -> 06:44 PM) Heres the stream Im using if anyone wants to watch the fight http://www.justin.tv/wmrhd1 If you have the sopcast program MMA TV usually has a pretty good stream. With that being said, i'm off to my buddy's to watch. Penn, FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 GSP pure and simple domination, amazing, didn't see it playing out like that. Works out for UFC in the long run having the belt on 2 people. Machida!!!!!!!!!! On a night of decisions who would have ever thought that he would get the KO! Good fight with Guida and Diaz, Guida suprised me, he did an excellent job. Bonner took an ass kicking. OK card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'm sure glad I didn't put any money on this card, otherwise I would of been drinking myself silly. GSP put on probably the most dominant performance I can remember. #1 P4P? Yep, book it. Time for BJ to go back to 155 and clean house, time for GSP to do the same at 170. I'm gonna shut up about Machida being boring now. With that being said I still think Rampage is the #1 contender, but if he gets caught by Jardine then by all means it's Machida's shot. Jon Jones could be something to watch. Card overall was decent. Now if you'll excuse me i'm gonna go back to bed to avoid anyone else yelling GSP! at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 12:08 PM) I'm sure glad I didn't put any money on this card, otherwise I would of been drinking myself silly. GSP put on probably the most dominant performance I can remember. #1 P4P? Yep, book it. Time for BJ to go back to 155 and clean house, time for GSP to do the same at 170. I'm gonna shut up about Machida being boring now. With that being said I still think Rampage is the #1 contender, but if he gets caught by Jardine then by all means it's Machida's shot. Jon Jones could be something to watch. Card overall was decent. Now if you'll excuse me i'm gonna go back to bed to avoid anyone else yelling GSP! at me. I'm sure glad I didn't buy that PPV, and instead watched it online. Penn looked pathetic, and the first three matches were boring as hell. I'm guessing Machida is Japanese, although he was apparently born and raised in Brazil. Can anyone confirm this? By his looks, he seems asian, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is. I'm basing this on his name, his father's name, and the fact that he's trained in Karate and Sumo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) I'm sure glad I didn't buy that PPV, and instead watched it online. Penn looked pathetic, and the first three matches were boring as hell. I'm guessing Machida is Japanese, although he was apparently born and raised in Brazil. Can anyone confirm this? By his looks, he seems asian, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is. I'm basing this on his name, his father's name, and the fact that he's trained in Karate and Sumo. He's half Japanese and half Brazilian. IMO the Diaz/Guida fight wasn't boring, not FOTN material but a lot of good ground work. The Bonner/Jones fight wasn't boring either, a spinning back elbow, numerous flush knees, it was Jones breaking out as a potential star and Bonner taking a hell of a beating. I don't mean this to be sarcastic or to sound cool or anything, but I really think people would enjoy K-1 kickboxing more than MMA, I just don't think it's been marketed right in the U.S. Edited February 1, 2009 by SoxFan562004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 02:06 PM) He's half Japanese and half Brazilian. IMO the Diaz/Guida fight wasn't boring, not FOTN material but a lot of good ground work. The Bonner/Jones fight wasn't boring either, a spinning back elbow, numerous flush knees, it was Jones breaking out as a potential star and Bonner taking a hell of a beating. I don't mean this to be sarcastic or to sound cool or anything, but I really think people would enjoy K-1 kickboxing more than MMA, I just don't think it's been marketed right in the U.S. ESPN2 use to show K-1 matches nightly around 7pm a few years ago. Very fun to watch. Kinda funny to see Bob Sapp wreck top K-1 guys for 1 fight before losing his stamina for the second round matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 QUOTE (zenryan @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) ESPN2 use to show K-1 matches nightly around 7pm a few years ago. Very fun to watch. Kinda funny to see Bob Sapp wreck top K-1 guys for 1 fight before losing his stamina for the second round matches. Yeah, I prefer MMA, but it seems like the things many people like about MMA are more prevelant in K-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 04:51 PM) Yeah, I prefer MMA, but it seems like the things many people like about MMA are more prevelant in K-1 I'd say the majority of the casual UFC fans would rather watch the fighters just stay on their feet. Nothing annoys me more than hearing people groan as soon as the fight hits the mat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 QUOTE (zenryan @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) I'd say the majority of the casual UFC fans would rather watch the fighters just stay on their feet. Nothing annoys me more than hearing people groan as soon as the fight hits the mat. I also like submissions. I hate when a fight goes to the judges, in MMA and boxing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...27&zoneid=2 Strikeforce bought ProElite's assets and inked a deal with Showtime. First event is 4/11 with Frank Shamrock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Feb 5, 2009 -> 05:48 PM) http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...27&zoneid=2 Strikeforce bought ProElite's assets and inked a deal with Showtime. First event is 4/11 with Frank Shamrock It should be interesting which fighters go over to Strikeforce. Could finally be a real competitor against the UFC. UFC Fight Night tonight, not real excited to see anyone in particular. Just excited to watch some good ol' MMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/rumors.asp? UFC 95 free on Spike Saturday night. Solid card, espicially since it's free. Stay away from MMA sites during the day since it's in London and spoilers will probably be up on there. That Marquardt/Gouveia fight has potential to be excellent, Marquardt is a very good fighter but has been buried a little with Anderson Silva's dominance. Sanchez at 155 could be a beast and Joe Daddy is a gamer, if you want to see a bloodbath watch the Joe Daddy/Penn fight. Kos has evolved lately as a fighter and should entertain. http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...cleid=8126& These are the rumored bouts for Strikeforce's rumored debut on Showtime. Diaz/Shamrock has potential, but Shamrock will have a size advantage on him. Shields is a heck of a fighter and always worth watching. http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...8&zoneid=14 WEC is giving Chicago an excellent card. Also, there's scuttle that UFC will bring back Cro Cop. Some rumors have him fighting Randy on 99 in Germany. Not sure if they're only interested in bringing him back for the Germany card or for longer. As always, go to F4Wrestling.com it's Meltzer's site and he's got great MMA sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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