MMA Thread

[MHizzle85]

After watching CroCop last night, I'm no longer interested in seeing him fight. Dos Santos does look like he has it going & I'd give him the winner of Cain/Rothwell, maybe even Kongo/Mir.

 

Griffin looked good, I'd like to see him in there against Diaz.

 

Oh, Daley and his left hook made a brand new fan outta me. Real question is do you give him another top 10 guy at 170? Or do you give him a fight to kinda show what else he's got.

[SoxFanForever]

After watching CroCop last night, I'm no longer interested in seeing him fight. Dos Santos does look like he has it going & I'd give him the winner of Cain/Rothwell, maybe even Kongo/Mir.

 

Griffin looked good, I'd like to see him in there against Diaz.

 

Oh, Daley and his left hook made a brand new fan outta me. Real question is do you give him another top 10 guy at 170? Or do you give him a fight to kinda show what else he's got.

From the sounds of things I've been hearing, Mirko is all but done. I don't think he has the desire to fight anymore.

 

I can't say as I blame him. He is 35 years old and this is a young mans sport. Between amateur boxing, kickboxing in K-1, Pride and UFC the guy has accumulated over 100 fights. I think is body is just worn down at this point. Watching fights from his early days in Pride in his 20's to his fights now is like watching two completely different fighters.

 

It's a sad day for me because he is basically the guy who made me a fan of MMA to begin with. I remember watching his Pride fights online and loving all the K-1 videos as well. It really is a shame to see. I'd just like to see some up and comer take out Brock. I was hoping it would be Mirko but that doesn't seem like it is going to happen.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

After watching CroCop last night, I'm no longer interested in seeing him fight. Dos Santos does look like he has it going & I'd give him the winner of Cain/Rothwell, maybe even Kongo/Mir.

 

Griffin looked good, I'd like to see him in there against Diaz.

 

Oh, Daley and his left hook made a brand new fan outta me. Real question is do you give him another top 10 guy at 170? Or do you give him a fight to kinda show what else he's got.

They'll give Daley another top fighter. He's been around for a while and most notably fought Jake Shields in EliteXC (was submitted in that fight). Daley has the stand-up to give anyone fits but his ground game has been holding him back as far as being a top-10 guy. I'm sure the UFC loves having him because he's an exciting fighter and is a Brit, and he is also a fresh contender to a division that GSP has been destroying, but I think he's going to have a really, really hard time getting past the wrestlers like Kos and Fitch. I could see the UFC trying to advance him by setting up fights with other guys who are primarily strikers, like Swick and Alves.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

From the sounds of things I've been hearing, Mirko is all but done. I don't think he has the desire to fight anymore.

 

I can't say as I blame him. He is 35 years old and this is a young mans sport. Between amateur boxing, kickboxing in K-1, Pride and UFC the guy has accumulated over 100 fights. I think is body is just worn down at this point. Watching fights from his early days in Pride in his 20's to his fights now is like watching two completely different fighters.

 

It's a sad day for me because he is basically the guy who made me a fan of MMA to begin with. I remember watching his Pride fights online and loving all the K-1 videos as well. It really is a shame to see. I'd just like to see some up and comer take out Brock. I was hoping it would be Mirko but that doesn't seem like it is going to happen.

There's some pretty great veterans still around who are older than Mirko. Even though his physical skills have deteriorated, I think it's more of a desire/confidence thing. He just doesn't want to be the aggressor anymore and that was kind of his whole game. You can't just sit back and wait for the big shot and expect to win at the highest levels because you're going to accumulate damage and get down on the scorecards early, and by the time you can land that big shot, you're probably going to be tired and not have a lot behind it.

 

There's still guys out there CC could beat if he had that killer instinct back. I mean, yeah the UFC HW division has gotten a TON better, but he could still beat most of the TUFers and guys like McCully, Hague, Russow, etc. And he could still put on some wars with guys like Rothwell and Buentello if he really wanted to. And really, how important is the belt anyway? If you want to fight and you can still entertain the fans then there's no reason to quit. But I think CC is done because he's done mentally. Physically there are younger guys around who are in much worse shape than he is at 35, even if he looks small and tired in there.

[SoxFan562004]

for a pure publicity move Strikeforce signed Herchel Walker, yes that Herchel Walker, to a multi-fight deal. From what I can find on the net he doesn't have any MMA experience but a background in TKD and a little in Kempo and Muay Thai. According to Meltzer he will start training with AKA in FL and debut at some point in 2010.

 

This will be awesome to see how the Zuffa haters justify this over Brock.

 

EDIT: I originally posted he had no experience, which would have been unfair.

Edited September 21, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

That's a weird, panicky move by Strikeforce. They'd be better off continuing to promote well-matched fights between C-level veterans and rising stars. The freak show route will get them attention but if they want any staying power they need to deliver quality and showcase the sport. Last I checked, the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc. all were outselling the Faces of Death series and regular season games were kicking Jerry Springer's ass. Shock value can cause a bit of a stir at first, but the only way to permanently capture the interest of sports fans is to give them a high-level athletic competition. Strikeforce should be doing everything they can to show the world on CBS that they're not the XFL to the UFC's NFL. But moves like this are confusing, as is the development of women's divisions, when just down the road the PFC is stacked with lighter weight mens fighters that the WEC hasn't signed yet.

[GoodAsGould]

If I was the owner of strikeforce 2 guys Id be looking to bring in our the green/white ranger since he is in mma now and can bring some fanboys and Bobby Lashley who from the fights ive seen looks very impressive and can be a fight for Fedor in the future.

[zenryan]

Walker has been following MMA for awhile and has MMA training. Dont know if it was just casual or not but its not like he's some guy who is green to the sport.

[SoxFan562004]

Walker has been following MMA for awhile and has MMA training. Dont know if it was just casual or not but its not like he's some guy who is green to the sport.

from what i've seen it's casual and he'll do a 12 week intense course at AKA and then they'll decide when he'll fight. His background is heavy in traditional martial arts.

[zenryan]

Well the guy is a great athlete and could be competitive against your C-level fighters.

[SoxFan562004]

Meltzer has a link you have to sign into and the boards are posting a message that Rampage reportedly posted that he is done fighting. Said he respects UFC but is upset about how they handled him taking the A-Team role. We will see how this plays out... I can see both sides, it's a good opportunity for Rampage to expand into another career and get his name better known, but UFC also did a lot for him and stood by him during his rampage, pun intended. Wouldn't be shocked if this gets smoothed over at some point. Dana did say Lorenzo has been dealing with Rampage lately because he was so honked at him.

 

also Huerta said he isn't done fighting, sherdog says he has a 60 day window where he can only negotiate with the UFC then the UFC can match any offer, so it looks like if the UFC wants to keep him they'll be able to

Edited September 23, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

^Just read this and was coming here to post it. Here's Rampage's whining in its entirety:

The UFC has done a lot for me but I think I have done more for them. The UFC bought WFA to get my contract & they saved my life, so I felt loyal to them. They pushed me into a fight with Chuck Liddel even when I clearly stated I wasn't ready to fight for the belt because the American fans didn't know me but I took the fight and didn't complain & after I won the American fans booed me for the first time which changed the way I saw them & it hurt me deeply.

 

Then before I can even get out of the cage they announced that I was fighting Dan Henderson without even asking me. After I beat Dan Henderson, I made history in becoming the first undisputed champion in MMA but was never even given the pride belt in the cage & I was never promoted as the undisputed champ. Later Anderson Silva was.

 

Then they had me coach TUF season 7 and fight Forrest and the fight was very controversial & normally when a fight is that close & controversial there is normally an instant replay. I can name a couple of instances. Instead they offered me the Vanderlei Silva fight which I gladly accepted even though I know it was a very risky fight for me to take because of all the drama that was happening to me at the time. I fought that fight with a jaw injury and then a couple weeks later Dana called me and asked me to fight Rashad. For the first time I said no, I didn't want to fight because it was such short notice & I wouldn't have had a long break between camp. Dana talked me into fighting Rashad anyway but Rashad refused the fight and so I had to fight Jardine as a favor to the UFC instead of getting my belt back (which wasn't even worth it to me financially).

 

Then I reinjured my jaw in the fight with Vanderlei & Jardine. Frank Mir gets hurt so they wanted to switch my fight from UFC 100 to the fight Frank couldn't make it to but I couldn't fight cause I needed jaw surgury. So they give Machida the fight against Rashad & they told me they want me to coach TUF season 10 against Rashad. That's why I wanted Rashad to win so bad but when Rashad got knocked out I told them I wanted to fight Machida for the belt but Dana told me if I coach TUF against Rashad that I could fight Machida afterwards cause this was a different type of ultimate fighter show they were doing. After I signed the contract Dana then changes his mind & says I have to fight Rashad & even told me what to say in the press & so my fans think I was scared to fight Machida. After all that I still never complained & I did it all.

 

Then this movie role came about that I have been trying to get for over a year & as soon as I found out I was close to getting it, I called Dana right away & asked to push the Memphis fight back just a month or so. I told him what this movie role meant to me. I told him that I used to bond with my father watching the tv show as a kid when my parents where still married & it represents the memories I had with my father when we lived together. My dad became an alcohalic & addicted to drugs & we grew apart. But after my dad got his life back together, I was so proud of my dad & I told him I would always take care of him in the future & make him proud of me. My dad & I are still very big fans of the show & I am basically doing this for the childhood memories I had spending time in front of the tv with my dad. Dana went on the internet & mocked me because of that & I still did nothing. Dana & I finally talked & we made up & then after that he went back on the internet & said some bulls*** & he was talking bad about the movie when information is not even supposed to be released & talking about payments which is not even true could really hurt my future acting career, which could very well last longer than my fighting career. I'm not like Randy Couture. My body has been getting so many different injuries that I wont be able to fight until my forties & neither do I want to fight that long. So I feel like my second career could be in jeopardy.. so I'm done fighting. I've been getting negative reviews from the dumb ass fans that don't pay my bills or put my kids though college. So I'm hanging it up. I'm gonna miss all my loyal fans but hopefully they'll follow me to my new career & I will gain more loyal fans along the way. & all you hater fans out there can kiss my big black hairy ass! & anybody that don't like what I just said can come try to kick my ass!

 

I still feel the UFC is a great organization and I felt like I was very loyal to them but they didn't respect my loyalty but I wish the UFC the best. I did a lot of things for them. I wish no bad blood between us but I have kids & a family back in Memphis to provide for & thats all that matters to me!

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Translation: Everyone is out to get me, the UFC never really did me any favors, I'm going to be a brilliant actor so I don't need to fight, I never wanted to rematch Wand all that bad, yadda yadda yadda. Rampage acts like he was never hanging out with Dana and getting bailed out by Dana and having his ass covered by Dana and being marketed by Dana and having his rematches made by Dana, etc. Dana may be a cocksucker a good bit of the time, but Rampage wouldn't be where he is today without him and the UFC. He'd be unmotivated fighting over in Japan or working Strikeforce cards with only the hardcore fans even knowing who he is. You're a fighter under contract to a fight promotion, and that promotion is not obligated to actually LISTEN to your input much less respect your wishes most of the time. If they give you a fight and you don't take it they can drop you and bury your ass. I'd say the UFC did nothing but great things for his career. He'd never even have a shot at acting if it weren't for them.

 

I don't believe Rampage one bit when he says he's retiring. Rampage has just lost his mind once again. I'm not a fan of his at all, but I do hope he gets some help, and maybe he really should think about retiring pretty soon. He's had quite a few episodes over the last year or so now. Maybe it's just the pressure or something though and he needs to kind of take some time off and get all that straightened out.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[MHizzle85]

KHP, I knew your view would already be negative. The only person to blame in all of this is Dana IMO. He goes ahead and trashed one of his bigger names for making a decision that not one fighter in Jackson's position would pass up. Then after they make up, Dana continues to trash. So Rampage decides he doesn't wanna fight anymore. You think Dana's gonna lose the revenue that was gonna come from a Rampage/Rashad match?

 

I wouldn't say he's losing his mind at all, he's just tired of having his "boss" or "friend" as Dana would call himself bash him in front of the media. Rampage may not be the smartest, but he ain't that damn stupid. He'll fight again, he'll eventually fight Rashad. He can't pass up that payday.

[SoxFan562004]

KHP, I knew your view would already be negative. The only person to blame in all of this is Dana IMO. He goes ahead and trashed one of his bigger names for making a decision that not one fighter in Jackson's position would pass up. Then after they make up, Dana continues to trash. So Rampage decides he doesn't wanna fight anymore. You think Dana's gonna lose the revenue that was gonna come from a Rampage/Rashad match?

 

I wouldn't say he's losing his mind at all, he's just tired of having his "boss" or "friend" as Dana would call himself bash him in front of the media. Rampage may not be the smartest, but he ain't that damn stupid. He'll fight again, he'll eventually fight Rashad. He can't pass up that payday.

look, there's no doubt Dana has so blame here, but the UFC HAS to get some credit for standing by him during that police chase he went on. Not only did Dana bail him out they stood by him publicly at a time they were trying to grab positive main stream attention and one of their stars led police on a chase, hopping curbs and crashing into cars while there was a HUGE picture of Rampage on the truck!

 

So after that support it seems logical to me that Dana and Zuffa would be a little miffed he decided to take a movie role when they decided to give him the position on TUF to set up a major fight that would have been a major payday for him.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[MHizzle85]

look, there's no doubt Dana has so blame here, but the UFC HAS to get some credit for standing by him during that police chase he went on. Not only did Dana bail him out they stood by him publicly at a time they were trying to grab positive main stream attention and one of their stars led police on a chase, hopping curbs and crashing into cars while there was a HUGE picture of Rampage on the truck!

 

So after that support it seems logical to me that Dana and Zuffa would be a little miffed he decided to take a movie role when they decided to give him the position on TUF to set up a major fight that would have been a major payday for him.

I'm not saying that the UFC doesn't get any credit for helping him out when he needed it the most. But, my point was more that Dana's s*** talk has come around and got him in the ass. I like Dana, but he has to know that not all guys are gonna take what he says.

[SoxFan562004]

I'm not saying that the UFC doesn't get any credit for helping him out when he needed it the most. But, my point was more that Dana's s*** talk has come around and got him in the ass. I like Dana, but he has to know that not all guys are gonna take what he says.

Yeah, Dana didn't handle it greatly. Again, I believe the UFC will have Rampage frozen for awhile, so after A-Team is made and the buzz calms down Rampage may realize he still needs to fight for a couple of paydays and you'll see him back. I think Dana, rightly or wrongly, just thought that this match had to take place in Dec or Jan to get it's full moneys worth and once he saw that circle the drain he let fire.

 

There's a reason they brought Lorenzo into Zuffa full time, and I wouldn't be shocked if this is a situation he ends up resolving in a few months.

 

I guess if Tito beats Coleman there would be money in a Rashad/Tito II.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The only thing Dana and co. did wrong was neglect to put a clause in fighter contracts saying they need written permission from Zuffa to take any leave of absence whatsoever. It's f***ing lame that Frank Trigg had to pull out of TAGG/MMAJunkie radio to fight in the UFC but yet Rampage gets to go make a movie. Suck it the f*** up Rampage, you're a millionaire and you've been blessed by second chances that other fighters would have never gotten. You're supposed to be a fighter, meaning you should fight whoever they put in front of you - and it's not even like the UFC made him fight training partners or anything like that. And LMAO at Rampage saying he was in any way hesitant to take a rematch with Wandy or fight Rashad. Rampage wanted to kill both Wandy and Rashad.

 

It'll be in Rampage's best interest to retire though because I doubt he can take the added brain damage he'll receive at the hands of Sugar Rashad. Wandy alone already did enough to Rampage to kill three men, so Rampage should be thrilled he made it through that and call it a day. And I know you like Rampage MHizzle, but sorry, I just can't stand that guy. I read where he called Forrest Griffin a loser or something after Anderson destroyed him and then Rampage said he no longer wanted the rematch with Forrest which he had spent the last year or so campaigning for. Like Rampage is anywhere near Anderson's league... Rampage is a great fighter and I'm not going to say he isn't, but he's f***ing nuts and he talks waaaay too much s*** for a guy who lost a decision to Forrest and barely got by Keith Jardine.

[SoxFan562004]

OK, many people were wondering why it took the UFC so long to do another HW season on TUF, the fact of the matter is there's just not that much HW talent out there.

 

Boy, easily the worst possible match-up for Kimbo was Roy Nelson, the guy is probably a top 20 HW and a tough fight. Any of the first 4 that fought he would have had a shot at. FWIW Dana and the brothers have been talking up Kimbo lately, so I believe he's confirmed for the TUF Finale and if he wins they'll probably keep him around and stick him on UFNs

 

and as we discussed earlier, the rumor is not confirmed, the ISAC approved Fedor/Rogers and it will happen at the Sears Center...

 

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/10733/

Edited September 24, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

There is some HW talent out there but not a ton of it, guys like Dave Herman for example. The UFC has brought in some ex-football players and it only makes sense that those guys will gas so early on. Football players train for explosiveness in short bursts, Sokoudjou style, so it is going to take these guys some time to acclimate their bodies to the rigors of a 15 minute total cardio f*** that is MMA.

 

I liked what I saw out of both of those fighters last night.

 

The McSweeney guy looks like a pretty good striker who will cut to 205 after the show. He gassed pretty early on but the guy he was fighting was f***ing huge and was laying on top of him putting his weight on the McSweeney. Cutting to LHW should force him to get into better shape and training at Jackson's is only going to help him.

 

The Wes Shivers guy looked pretty tough for those first couple minutes but then totally gassed, which again is just what happens to guys who aren't used to training for MMA contests. But the guy is huge and was coming forward throwing straight punches and looking to finish early so you've got to love that. Let the guy have a few months to get himself into better physical shape and then judge his performance.

 

Lots of guys on TUF really look like s***, and that's kind of the point. The UFC could have brought in some better veterans, and they did that with Nelson (who still has big holes in his standup game and with his wrestling), but that would kind of defeat the purpose. I don't think they want another Mac Danzig situation where they bring in a mediocre well-rounded guy who beats everyone and then goes on to be one of the weaker fighters on the show. Zuffa loves to develop their own talent, so when you watch TUF you just have to look for tools and natural ability and stuff and then realize that these guys are going to, for the most part, go back home and train harder than they've ever trained before with better gyms, coaches, and training partners than they've ever had before.

[MHizzle85]

Speaking of last night, am I wrong for thinking Shivers won that fight? I don't think McSweeney did enough in either round to warrant winning either.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I thought McSweeny won from landing all those leg kicks. Shivers bending over and sucking win didn't help his cause. But I could see at the very least scoring the first round for Shivers based on a takedown and landing the best strikes.

 

It'll be interesting to see what a guy that big and athletic can do in MMA with some better cardio. I doubt he'll ever become all that good because he lacks a wrestling base and by the looks of things the wrestlers are going to rule the HW division for a while to come, but the guy could roll off some pretty sick KOs if he bumps up his conditioning. IIRC he threw a pretty sharp body kick in there too.

[zenryan]

Boy, easily the worst possible match-up for Kimbo was Roy Nelson, the guy is probably a top 20 HW and a tough fight. Any of the first 4 that fought he would have had a shot at. FWIW Dana and the brothers have been talking up Kimbo lately, so I believe he's confirmed for the TUF Finale and if he wins they'll probably keep him around and stick him on UFNs

 

 

This fight matchup was leaked a few months ago on mma.tv by a poster with the results. Bad matchup for Kimbo but atleast it looks like he is going about the fight business the right way now. He appears to really want to learn. He probably could've handled himself well against some of the other guys in the house.

 

Keeping him on UFNs would be smart. He's not going to generate a big spike in PPV numbers IMO but he would generate big ratings on a free shows that Spike offers.

[Rowand44]

This fight matchup was leaked a few months ago on mma.tv by a poster with the results.

There has been a few different "leaks" about Kimbo's fight(s), so I wouldn't be so sure if the one you saw is 100 percent correct yet.

[SoxFan562004]

Speaking of last night, am I wrong for thinking Shivers won that fight? I don't think McSweeney did enough in either round to warrant winning either.

If I was a judge I would have given it to him too, but that fight was so weird due to the lack of cardio I wasn't bugged by the decision