MMA Thread

[MHizzle85]

Yeah, MMA's Javy Vazquez has been around a while and has fought all over the place. Recently he had been in EliteXC, then Affliction, and now he's in the WEC 145lb. class, just losing a couple split decisions. He's a very well-rounded guy with sick BJJ. If you watch all the WEC live shows you should see him soon, unless for some reason they cut him (and I hope they don't because he's very good). He also has (or had, not sure) a video blog kind of thing on Sherdog where he'd pick the winner of a fight and display techniques that he thought would help his pick win the fight.

 

The news about Lesnar and Nog is kind of scary. I really hope these guys get better and quickly because Lesnar is just getting better and more exciting, and Nog was just looking like the real Nog again. That's so sad. I hope when/if these guys come back they're back at 100% after full training camps. The UFC shouldn't think of rushing either one to fill out a card.

 

Don't know who is going to get what fight, but I wouldn't be too shocked if they made Carwin vs. Velasquez for an interim title in Mexico. I haven't read this anywhere, it's just my speculation, but they want Cain to headline in Mexico, and if Lesnar is going to be out for a long time I think it makes sense. Then when Nog comes back you either put him against the interim champ if Lesnar is still out or give him a #1 contender fight where he'll face the winner of Lesnar-interim champ.

 

I'll see your Carwin/Velasquez & throw in this suggestion. Do you sit Cain & wait to have him go against say Frank Mir if he beats Kongo? What about Dos Santos, do you start giving him fights against any of these guys?

 

[zenryan]

I hate the idea of "interim" titles(only purpose is to make 5 round fights) but is Velasquez worthy for an interim title shot though?

 

 

I'd like to see a Mir vs Velasquez and Carwin vs Dos Santos and the winners fight each other to be named the interim champ.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'll see your Carwin/Velasquez & throw in this suggestion. Do you sit Cain & wait to have him go against say Frank Mir if he beats Kongo? What about Dos Santos, do you start giving him fights against any of these guys?

I think that would depend on when they go to Mexico, but Mir is a great suggestion in the meantime. He's a name, but Velasquez can deal with Mir's striking while Mir can't deal with Cain's wrestling, and Mir off his back isn't exactly a huge force when you keep things tight. That would be a strong win for Cain and would give him quite a bit of momentum going into a title fight.

 

Carwin they probably can't do anything with since they guaranteed him a title shot in his next fight. Cigano is probably the only other deserving guy, except he's fighting Gonzaga at 108 in January. It's only a month and a half away so it wouldn't make sense to pull him out of that fight, plus JDS is a dangerous guy who should be built up for a shot at the belt himself.

 

The best for all involved IMO would be if they went to Mexico in March for 111 instead of April and just made Carwin-Cain for the interim belt. That way everyone involved can relax for the holidays and start their training camps for the new year. Carwin has a knee issue anyway, so the time off to rest would be great for him. The only thing that would suck about this scenario would be that if Lesnar is ready to start training in a couple months then he would have to wait for Cain-Carwin to be resolved first and maybe not fight until June or so. Dana and co. will probably meet with Lesnar and his people, talk to the doctors, and then decide on what to do from there, so I doubt there will be any announcement involving Cain or Carwin for a while. Lesnar's their champ and biggest draw so he comes first.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Wow, what a s***ty event last night. Good thing Pacman-Cotto was entertaining.

 

Vera might've got jobbed but does it really matter? If you cant beat Couture at this point then youre basically irrelevant in the UFC. I cant stand Vera so I'm glad he lost though. Couture needs to hang it up before he really gets hurt. But then again, he's paying for another divorce so he might need the cash.

The main event wasn't all that great, but I thought it was a pretty good card. There were a couple KO's including the one Roli Delgado took which was just sick, plus Hardy showed he was more than the hype taking out Swick. Bisping looked good too. And Matt Brown-James Wilks was a very entertaining fight IMO.

 

You make valid points with Randy, but as long as the commissions sanction him to fight - and because of his age they need to clear him for each individual fight - and as long as he wants to fight and gets offered a spot, I have no problem with it. He's not Saku, I mean Lesnar, Nog, and Vera is an extremely tough string of fights for anyone, and only Lesnar finished him. There are still matchups with Randy that I'd like to see, but he might need to take the Matt Hughes route for a fight or two (Serra and Renzo) before getting another top LHW or HW.

 

And there's always the Kimbo factor too. Randy-Kimbo for no apparent reason would be a huge draw, especially on free TV, and it doesn't harm anything because neither are now nor will be in the title picture. Might as well milk it while you can.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[SoxFan562004]

I'm not a huge fan of interim titles either, but I think in the HW situation they should have Cain/Carwin for the interim. Not the greatest two guys prestige wise, but at this point I think to add spice to cards they need to have a HW title being fought for.

 

Meltzer says Big Nog staph isn't terrible and he should be able to fight soon, Lesnar is up in the air as far as career goes, but he didn't want Dana to say anything about mono, so who knows what the mystery illness is... I would guess hepatitis, but that's just a pure guess (Supposedly Aleks E, Fedor's bro, struggles with that, that what keeps him out of the U.S. fights, but that's just pure rumor which is denied by Aleks' people).

 

As far as the main goes, it just solidifies my theory that judges give the nod to initial aggression and control over striking, with that I see how Randy won, there would have to be a push to change philosophy of judging or we are going to continue to see these types of decisions.

 

Hardy impressed me, not that GSP won't eat his lunch, but Hardy did impress me.

[SoxFan562004]

The main event wasn't all that great, but I thought it was a pretty good card. There were a couple KO's including the one Roli Delgado took which was just sick, plus Hardy showed he was more than the hype taking out Swick. Bisping looked good too. And Matt Brown-James Wilks was a very entertaining fight IMO.

 

You make valid points with Randy, but as long as the commissions sanction him to fight - and because of his age they need to clear him for each individual fight - and as long as he wants to fight and gets offered a spot, I have no problem with it. He's not Saku, I mean Lesnar, Nog, and Vera is an extremely tough string of fights for anyone, and only Lesnar finished him. There are still matchups with Randy that I'd like to see, but he might need to take the Matt Hughes route for a fight or two (Serra and Renzo) before getting another top LHW or HW.

 

And there's always the Kimbo factor too. Randy-Kimbo for no apparent reason would be a huge draw, especially on free TV, and it doesn't harm anything because neither are now nor will be in the title picture. Might as well milk it while you can.

I agree, not the greatest card ever, but certainly not terrible.

[MHizzle85]

As for judging, they should probably just go to the PRIDE system by just picking a winner.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

As for judging, they should probably just go to the PRIDE system by just picking a winner.

It wouldn't be so bad now if the judges just knew what to weigh. They often seem to view all of the scoring criteria equally, like aggression = effective striking = effective grappling = octagon/cage control. Whoever spends the most time in a round dominating one of those categories wins that round. That's obviously a poor way to judge a fight.

 

Examples:

A wrestler on top who is doing nothing but defending subs from a BJJ blackbelt who is comfortable off his back wins a round, even though the only actual OFFENSE from him was a takedown, and the takedown was useless because he couldn't pass guard or strike effectively from guard. But since he's on top he's still controlling the fight according to the judges.

 

A counter-striker landing the majority of strong strikes in a round ends up losing the round because a less effective striker is being "aggressive" and coming forward, and supposedly "controlling" the fight.

 

A strong flurry from a striker in the first part of a round is somehow nullified when the other fighter, hurt, gets the fight to the ground and sits there throwing weak hammerfists and body punches with 5 inches of separation. If the guy who got his ass kicked is on top for longer, he wins the fight.

 

There's also cases when a guy is striking effectively, and winning the fight on the feet, but the opponent gets like 3 takedowns in the round. Somehow, for some strange reason, the takedowns count in the mind of the judges, even if the guy who gets the takedown can't keep his opponent down for more than a few seconds, and can't do anything at all with the takedowns. The "takedowns score points" s*** you hear all the time, and the fighters do it too because they know it works. But takedowns should only matter if you can do something with it. Takedowns fall into the realm of grappling, and if you can't do anything with them, then you're not effectively grappling. But still, 3 takedowns in a round can win you that round even if you're getting tagged cleanly on the feet.

 

The whole scoring system needs to be completely overhauled and the 10-9 must system should be trashed, but in the meantime, just getting the judges on the same page with regards to scoring criteria priorities would help a ton. Control and aggression should only determine a round winner when the grappling and striking categories are even, and in fact, maybe they should just throw that stuff out completely and go with more 10-10 rounds when the grappling and striking aspects are even. The control and aggression aspects only seem to help fighters in Nate Quarry-Kalib Starnes type situations, but they seem to hurt all the time elsewhere.

 

Control I don't even understand anyway. If you're out-muscling your opponent in the clinch you're still grappling effectively. If you're on top and working or on the bottom and going for subs you're still grappling effectively. Control should be thrown out as it is.

 

Aggression is largely under the control of the referee (he's supposed to stand up or separate if there is stalling) and the promoters (offering bonuses for finishing fights). Things are different in today's MMA with regards to aggression because there's a lot more strategy involved, and coming forward or backing up is just part of a style or gameplan fighters use, so they shouldn't be penalized for it. Also, some fighters just get tired and end up stalling, in which case the ref is supposed to stand them up or separate them. So I think they should throw that one out too. Just go with effective striking and grappling, and count knockdowns and near-submissions above everything else.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[SoxFan562004]

Lesnar update from Meltzer: Dana is trying to get him into the Mayo Clinic, he needs surgery, appears to be an intestinal order. White said that his career being over is a "possibility"

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Lesnar update from Meltzer: Dana is trying to get him into the Mayo Clinic, he needs surgery, appears to be an intestinal order. White said that his career being over is a "possibility"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This can't be true, it just can't be!

[MHizzle85]

That's really a shame about Lesnar. Hope he recovers.

[Kyyle23]

Gotta wonder what is hitting lesnar right now. I read a funny quote about him getting sick, something along the lines of "I thought Lesnar would call a virus a p**** and stomp on it while at the same time chop trees down with his bare hands"

 

I hope it isnt anything that the rumor mill is talking about(steroid related tumor, think Giambi), and for some reason I keep thinking Krones disease, which would be equally impactful to him because of how rough it is on people(wild weight swings, vitamin absorption problems, etc). I hope he gets out of this and back to the ring

[Kyyle23]

I read yesterday that colonic diverticulosis is the diagnosis for Brock

[SoxFan562004]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...25&zoneid=2

 

WEC on tonight. This is a must watch for any MMA fans, hardcore or casual. If you're a casual MMA fan watch WEC, these events usually deliver. The main event is probably the match I have been looking the most forward to out of any the last few months.

[Kyyle23]

I watched 15 seconds of MMA explosion the other day. Josh Powell got KTFO in 11 seconds, 4 seconds later I was bored

[MHizzle85]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...25&zoneid=2

 

WEC on tonight. This is a must watch for any MMA fans, hardcore or casual. If you're a casual MMA fan watch WEC, these events usually deliver. The main event is probably the match I have been looking the most forward to out of any the last few months.

Thanks for reminding me, if I had remembered sooner I could of DVR'd before going out for the day/night. I'll just have to catch it after I get in tonight.

[MHizzle85]

According to Dana White's Twitter. Karo pulled out AGAIN for tomorrow's fight, and he won't be fighting in the UFC again.

[Kyyle23]

from Karos wiki

 

Karo is no longer scheduled to fight at UFC 106, it was announce on November 19, 2009 via Dana White's Twitter page that Karo will not be fighting, and states Karo will never again fight in the UFC. White stated that he had "a laundry list of excuses".

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Jose Aldo is a mean motherf***er. What's so scary is that he's a BJJ blackbelt and he doesn't even have to use it. The guy's takedown defense is awesome and he's a ferocious striker. He's also a 135lb fighter if he wants to be, but he felt like going up to 145. What a beast. The next couple WEC mega fights should be Aldo-Faber, Torres-Bowles II, and then after that it might be time to start thinking about Aldo making a run at 135 too.

 

Sucks about Karo because that Karo-Hazelett fight was the one I was most looking forward too of any on the card. It's no surprise about the release though because Karo has pulled all kinds of s*** in the past. He has panic attacks and freaks out. I hope he gets some help, gets on a nice streak, and then finds his way back to the UFC because he's a great fighter and he's always exciting. Plus you don't see too many sweet judo throws in MMA as it is.

[southsideirish71]

Brown vs Aldo for those who didn't see

 

Edited November 19, 2009 by southsideirish71

[SoxFan562004]

Aldo is a scary fighter right now. I wonder if he'll try to beef up and make a run in 155 in the UFC, there's more $$ in that

[MHizzle85]

Thanks for posting it. I've been trying to find it all week.

 

Picks for tonight.

 

Griffin

Johnson

Sadollah

Volkmann

Cane

Davis

Rosholt

[SoxFan562004]

at the press conference yesterday Dana said if Rashad beats Thiago in January his next fight will likely be against Rampage, but just last week he was saying he wasn't coming back... who knows, I think Rampage will be back by the middle of next year

[zenryan]

So glad that Kos won tonight. Always thought Johnson was way over hyped since he's beaten basically a B-level of fighters. Plus the guy acts like he's better than he really is.

[MHizzle85]

Ortiz/Griffin was very meh to me. Even more stupid was both of them complaining about s*** after the fight. Tito, if you had a "cracked skull" I'm pretty sure you wouldn't of been cleared to fight. I guess if I judged it, I would of had it a draw, or 29-28 Griffin. Also, what the f*** happened to Tito in the 3rd round?

 

I picked against him & he proved me wrong. I'm ashamed for picking against Kos. As much as I would like to see him face Hardy next, if he were to beat him then the UFC would be f***ed for a next title fight.

 

Volkmann/Thiago was weird. Like I think it was a good fight, but I'm not completely sure it was.

 

Lil' Nog did his thing.

 

I like Sadollah, so I'm glad to see him get a W.

 

The question is, where do some of these guys go from here?