WSoxMatt Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I remember when we all HATED the Danks & Massett for BMAC trade, before 1 pitch was ever thrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ May 30, 2007 -> 04:26 PM) I remember when we all HATED the Danks & Massett for BMAC trade, before 1 pitch was ever thrown No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:26 AM) I remember when we all HATED the Danks & Massett for BMAC trade, before 1 pitch was ever thrown I still think we probably could have gotten a little bit more for BMac. But hey, I guess I can't complain about being proven wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Bobby Bonilla for José DeLeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ May 29, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) Couldn't agree more. Our outfield -- RIGHT NOW -- needs a young player who can hit, run and field. THAT player is in Arizona, and he's named Chris Young. He'll get better, too. In his place is the guy who has been rewarded for mediocrity. IF -- and it's a big IF -- the signing of that turd to an $11 million deal prevents us from signing guys who actually have ACHIEVED things for this team -- and are critical to its makeup (Buehrle, Garland) -- the trade becomes even worse. And just so I'm totally clear about my position: I don't think Vazquez has underachieved. I think this is who he is, and has been, for about 6 years now. His stuff isn't excellent. The view to the contrary is a myth. Here's why: if you continue to hang off-speed pitches -- that is, throw curveballs that don't curve and sliders that don't slide -- you're not underachieving. Your stuff just isn't that consistently good. That's the guy I see. I get angry just thinking about that trade. I did the day it happened. And I do right now. Hi folks, new to the board. You nailed it on Vazquez, Nordy! The guy just doesn't know how to win consistently, and his hanging offspeed pitches and wheelhouse fastballs are thrown in the worst situations. A Sox team that won 90 games last year went 13-18 in games Javy started. The year before, he posted a losing record, 11-14 and 4.42 ERA in one of the worst and lightest hitting divisions in recent memory, the 2005 NL West. This guy has been living off his reputation as much as any pitcher in baseball. His ability to hold a one or two run lead in the middle to late innings is virtually noinexistent. He pitches well when given a huge lead, but who doesn't. He seldom closes the door after being given a lead. There's a reason he's 102-108. The best thing about the guy is his durability. I could go on and on, but I'll just get angrier about the trade. CYoung is just the type of dynamic multi-tool right-handed young outfielder the Sox need now and going forward. I also dreaded this trade the day it happened. It's the only one I've REALLY hated in the later KW era. After he took off the training wheels, I've been a big fan of KW generally. The trades where all players turned out to be crap really don't matter. Now, Nordy, I'm also worried that Javy's re-signing will lead to the deparature of Buehrle and/or Garland as the dominoes fall. We'll see how the season turn out, but instead of riding the Javy express to a 3rd straight disappointment in '08, KW needs to trade his ass this offseason, and re-sign Mark and Jon (Vazquez can't be traded until the offseason according to his contract, I believe). Will KW let his ego get in the way of common sense and keep our wagon hitched to this loser for the rest of his contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 QUOTE(briguy27 @ May 29, 2007 -> 06:11 PM) another one is how about the signing of colon. colon pitched 1 season for us, and all the expectations we had of winning the world series and such, he went 13-12 or somethin around there, and we missed the playoffs Oye ve.. Colon pitched 244 innings for us that year. He did his job. That team was a massive bust. And don't forget he went on to win a Cy Young. That was one of KW's better deals. As for Sosa (commented on earlier as a "bad deal"), had Sosa stayed with the Sox no way be becomes what he did. The drug use would not have been tolerated. QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 30, 2007 -> 11:18 AM) Mike Cameron for Paul Konerko.... wait. That deal had even arguments for and against. IMO, they did give up on Cam way too early, but getting Paul wasn't as detramental as it could have been (thankfully his hip has held up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 QUOTE(Stan Bahnsen @ May 30, 2007 -> 12:14 PM) Hi folks, new to the board. You nailed it on Vazquez, Nordy! The guy just doesn't know how to win consistently, and his hanging offspeed pitches and wheelhouse fastballs are thrown in the worst situations. A Sox team that won 90 games last year went 13-18 in games Javy started. The year before, he posted a losing record, 11-14 and 4.42 ERA in one of the worst and lightest hitting divisions in recent memory, the 2005 NL West. This guy has been living off his reputation as much as any pitcher in baseball. His ability to hold a one or two run lead in the middle to late innings is virtually noinexistent. He pitches well when given a huge lead, but who doesn't. He seldom closes the door after being given a lead. There's a reason he's 102-108. The best thing about the guy is his durability. I could go on and on, but I'll just get angrier about the trade. CYoung is just the type of dynamic multi-tool right-handed young outfielder the Sox need now and going forward. I also dreaded this trade the day it happened. It's the only one I've REALLY hated in the later KW era. After he took off the training wheels, I've been a big fan of KW generally. The trades where all players turned out to be crap really don't matter. Now, Nordy, I'm also worried that Javy's re-signing will lead to the deparature of Buehrle and/or Garland as the dominoes fall. We'll see how the season turn out, but instead of riding the Javy express to a 3rd straight disappointment in '08, KW needs to trade his ass this offseason, and re-sign Mark and Jon (Vazquez can't be traded until the offseason according to his contract, I believe). Will KW let his ego get in the way of common sense and keep our wagon hitched to this loser for the rest of his contract? Stan Bahnsen, huh? That's some old-school, red-pinstripe, Wilbur Wood-Jim Kaat-Claude Osteen stuff there. Welcome to the board -- and welcome to agreeing with me! You mention durability with Vazquez. For Williams, I think that was the key to re-signing him. He makes his starts. But so did Jaime Navarro. He made a lot of starts. (Not too many finishes, though.) That was just a senseless trade -- made with the intention of protecting our starters, who had been extended in 2005. THAT part made sense. But they had McCarthy to take the 5th spot -- and still would've had El Duque as a swing guy, pitching lighter innings, during the year. Even then, it still might've been a good move, if it weren't Young involved (one of our few minor leaguers who seemed to have plate discipline, not to mention speed) or Vazquez coming back. The man's track record screamed: "Hello, I'm Javy. I'm mediocre. And I'm paid nearly $10 million a year." Pretty ill-advised all the way around. My guess is that, if an opportunity were to come along, Williams would move him. But given what he received for Garcia, I'm not holding my breath for a big return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 30, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I still think we probably could have gotten a little bit more for BMac. But hey, I guess I can't complain about being proven wrong. More than Danks, Massett, and another young arm? For McCarthy? Brandon McCarthy? I didn't know he was that highly thought of? The Rangers got raped in that deal and you think we could have received more? WOW! Some people are just never satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilmot825 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 not sigining Eric Gange when he was in the farm system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NO!!MARY!!! Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) I'll go with the classic response of the 1960 preseason deals: Johnny Callison for Gene Freese Norm Cash and John Romano for Minnie Minoso Earl Battey for Roy Sievers Plenty more to choose from. Howza bout these clunkers? Steve Stone for Ron Santo- the Sox of the early '70's needed pitchers. They did NOT need Ron Santo. Eddie Lopat for Bill Wight-Wight got lost on the way to his first Sox spring training and went on to be a 20 game loser. Lopat became a Yankee great. Brian Downing for Bobby Bonds-one good thing came out of this deal- Richard Dotson, who won 22 games for the 1983 Winning Uglies. He got hurt in 1985 and never reached his potential, though. Downing went on to a long, productive career. Bobby Bonilla for Jose DeLeon-funny how Hawk never talks about his 350-odd day tenure as Sox GM. Think this trade might have a l'il something to do with that? People may lament the waiving of Denny McLain. Well, perhaps. They lost his pitching skills but also his massive gambling habit and seedy underworld connections. Don Buford for Luis Aparicio, John Matias and Russ Snyder-not to knock the reacquisition of Little Louie, but it came at too high a price. Buford went on to be a star for the great Oriole teams of the late 60's-early 70's. Snyder and Matias were busts. If only they could've had Louie back without trading Buford. Tommie Agee for Tommy Davis- well, this one looked good on paper, I guess. Trade a .234 hitter for a .302 hitter. So what happens? The .302 guy slumps and is gone after a year, the .234 guy goes on to be a part of the legendary "Miracle Mets" and makes splendid plays in the World Series. Sandy Alomar for Bobby Knoop- a young, fast infielder for an aging, soon-to-retire one. Let's do it! Luis Aparicio for Luis Alvarado- had to do this one. After all, Bee Bee Richard was waiting in the wings. Mike Andrews, a part of this deal, contributed in 1972, however. Acquisition of Chick Gandil- no explanation needed. Edited May 31, 2007 by NO!!MARY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ May 30, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) That deal had even arguments for and against. IMO no konerko = no 2005 world series champs IMO. good deal for the sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NO!!MARY!!! Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Ya know, in my haste to put up my last post, I forgot to include "road not taken" deals. In other words, worst deals that the White Sox did NOT make: Dave Nicholson for Rocky Colavito-Rock was offered to the Sox even up for Nicholson before the 1964 season, when they could've used him. Ed Short turned it down. Floyd Robinson for Frank Robinson- no fault of the Sox. Short tried to trade for Frank after 1965, when the Reds put him on the block. The Reds said no to the Sox. They much preferred the services of Milt Pappas, who went 30-29 in two years for Cincy. Purchasing contract of Ernie Banks-the White Sox were offered the contract of Banks by the Kansas City Monarchs before the Cubs. They saw Banks in a Negro League All-Star Game and were unimpressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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