The Time To Act... Unfortunately is Now.

[Hideaway Lights]

The time to act was in the offseason. There was little done to help this big league roster...a roster that looked dead tired all during the 2nd half last year. KW's inability to get major league ready talent for Garcia really hurt. I'm not sure how much it matters though....the Tigers/Indians are much more talented than we are, and they have younger legs. If Liriano can return for the Twins next year, there's no way you can project the Sox higher than 4th place for the next few seasons.

 

 

this post is right on, except that the twins lose santana after next season (?). Also, there's no guarantee the white sox will not drastically change the team in this offseason

 

Also, for those who wanted the team to "compete" year in and year out and be "in position to win" at all times....welcome to allstar break hell where you never quite know if your team is good enough or bad enough to do anything whatsoever. Welcome to being the Houston f***ing Astros.

 

bring back the "where would he play" sigs, stat

 

also, how anyone thought this team was much better than 83-87 wins before the season started is still beyond me

 

bringing back podsednik, signing erstad and getting no ML talent for garcia was the death knell

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

First of all, Greg Walker should have been fired a long time ago. Fields needs to be playing somewhere. I know he isn't very good in left, but he's a better option than who we have out there now.

[hitlesswonder]

this post is right on, except that the twins lose santana after next season (?). Also, there's no guarantee the white sox will not drastically change the team in this offseason

 

You shouldn't assume Santana is automatically gone. The Twins will have a new ballpark and added revenue. With their rotation in 2008, they'll be a championship quality team and might have playoff and World Series revenue. Santana has indicated he'll offer a discount to the Twins. And, historically, the Twins have rarely lost their best player to free agency -- they ponied up a bunch of money for Puckett.

 

Anyway, for the Sox the truth of the matter is that they are on a collision with the Royals to battle for 4th place for the next 5 years unless something unlikely happens to turn things around (e.g. fantastic deadline trades of Buehrle & Garland that bring in a bunch of talent). I'm sure that sounds overly pessimistic, but the minor league system is so utterly devoid of talent that you're looking at a 4 or 5 year wait for an impact player to be brought up from the minors because they would have to be drafted this year. The rebuilding process could be accelerated by keeping the payroll high and getting a decent free agent or 2, but I doubt the payroll stays high when attendance drops.

[Hideaway Lights]

You shouldn't assume Santana is automatically gone. The Twins will have a new ballpark and added revenue. With their rotation in 2008, they'll be a championship quality team and might have playoff and World Series revenue. Santana has indicated he'll offer a discount to the Twins. And, historically, the Twins have rarely lost their best player to free agency -- they ponied up a bunch of money for Puckett.

 

Anyway, for the Sox the truth of the matter is that they are on a collision with the Royals to battle for 4th place for the next 5 years unless something unlikely happens to turn things around (e.g. fantastic deadline trades of Buehrle & Garland that bring in a bunch of talent). I'm sure that sounds overly pessimistic, but the minor league system is so utterly devoid of talent that you're looking at a 4 or 5 year wait for an impact player to be brought up from the minors because they would have to be drafted this year. The rebuilding process could be accelerated by keeping the payroll high and getting a decent free agent or 2, but I doubt the payroll stays high when attendance drops.

 

yankees or red sox will offer santana 10/250

 

twins won't come within 100 million of that total

 

/end negotiations

 

we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball, and maybe one of the very best of all time

 

no way he stays in minneapolis, in my opinion

[Gene Honda Civic]

Aybar and McPherson would be ideal for me...

WTF would we want McPhereson for? To pair with Collaro and cool the Charlotte dugouts as they fan a combined 350 times?

[hitlesswonder]

WTF would we want McPhereson for? To pair with Collaro and cool the Charlotte dugouts as they fan a combined 350 times?

 

Hawk would love it. He was pimping Collaro on one of the recent broadcasts. Power at the corners, feisty.

[CWSGuy406]

Hawk would love it. He was pimping Collaro on one of the recent broadcasts. Power at the corners, feisty.

 

They were pimping anybody hitting over .250 at any of the minor league levels. It was pathetic.

[GreatScott82]

We are 50 games into the season and we are an average ball club. Something has to be done. Fire Greg Walker, Make a Desperate Deal, or start the sale... we have to get some sort of action out of our ballclub.

And this is not an overreaction from these first two games in Minny... we are just average. I am tired of waiting for our bats to warm up, Vazquez to dominate, the pen to protect a lead, Joe Crede to actually look like half the player he was last year, Pods to get healthy, etc. We are just an average ball club.

If we hold out hope too long for this season... it could cost us for many seasons to come.

Please do something Kenny.

1. I would definitley fire Walker, i was against early on in the year when everyone was struggling at the same time.. well its been about a month later and not much has changed.

 

2. Desperate Deal- Im just not sure KW can make an imediate deal to improve this years team dramatically. Like fathom said, the time to act was in the offseason, but the 'inflated market' and KW's stubborness kept the Sox from signing an impact type player. What possition can be filled to improve this teams offense? What we need is a true leadoff LF. And i wanted Carl Crawford BAD in the offseason... What will it take to get him over here now? Probably Danks and Sweeney and I highly doubt KW would trade away Danks since he's learning how to pitch at the MLB much quicker than we all anticipated, not to mention he will be a cheap pitcher in our rotation for many years to come.

So if Crawford is out of the question who else can be traded for that can imediately improve this team?

Not only does this team need another hitter, this team needs a couple more RELIABLE arms in the pen. Aardsma is pitching like a true Cub reliever and we already saw Sisco get sent down. Relievers usually come pretty cheap so i can see KW go after a few guys to fix that issue.

 

3. Blow this team up- We can still probably get some solid prospects for Dye. And if we are really out of the race come the trade deadline I wouldn't be surprised if KW traded away Contreras to a contender for some prospects. Guys like Masset and Gio Gonzalas are just waiting for there chance. Iguchi just looks lazy out there so I wouldn't be sad to see him leave at this point.

 

4. Which guys to keep if they do 'blow it up'?- I can see KW signing Buerhle to a new deal. Especially if Contreras and Dye are dealt to free up some cash. I expect to see a rotation of Buerhle, Garland, Vazquez, Danks and Massett next year.

[caulfield12]

1. I would definitley fire Walker, i was against early on in the year when everyone was struggling at the same time.. well its been about a month later and not much has changed.

 

2. Desperate Deal- Im just not sure KW can make an imediate deal to improve this years team dramatically. Like fathom said, the time to act was in the offseason, but the 'inflated market' and KW's stubborness kept the Sox from signing an impact type player. What possition can be filled to improve this teams offense? What we need is a true leadoff LF. And i wanted Carl Crawford BAD in the offseason... What will it take to get him over here now? Probably Danks and Sweeney and I highly doubt KW would trade away Danks since he's learning how to pitch at the MLB much quicker than we all anticipated, not to mention he will be a cheap pitcher in our rotation for many years to come.

So if Crawford is out of the question who else can be traded for that can imediately improve this team?

Not only does this team need another hitter, this team needs a couple more RELIABLE arms in the pen. Aardsma is pitching like a true Cub reliever and we already saw Sisco get sent down. Relievers usually come pretty cheap so i can see KW go after a few guys to fix that issue.

 

3. Blow this team up- We can still probably get some solid prospects for Dye. And if we are really out of the race come the trade deadline I wouldn't be surprised if KW traded away Contreras to a contender for some prospects. Guys like Masset and Gio Gonzalas are just waiting for there chance. Iguchi just looks lazy out there so I wouldn't be sad to see him leave at this point.

 

4. Which guys to keep if they do 'blow it up'?- I can see KW signing Buerhle to a new deal. Especially if Contreras and Dye are dealt to free up some cash. I expect to see a rotation of Buerhle, Garland, Vazquez, Danks and Massett next year.

 

A lot depends on the progression of Gio and Russell for the fifth spot. Right now, you could pencil Masset or either of those two into the rotation and nobody would bat an eye at it.

[BobDylan]

I figure they're three players away from contention. A good left fielder and two good bullpen arms. But three players ain't easy to get in the middle of the season, and they don't have a lot of bargaining chips they can afford to give away. I think it's feasable that they can find a left fielder, but one of Aardsma/MacDougal (if not both) have to seriously step up. Otherwise, this team is going nowhere.

 

1. I would definitley fire Walker, i was against early on in the year when everyone was struggling at the same time.. well its been about a month later and not much has changed.

 

2. Desperate Deal- Im just not sure KW can make an imediate deal to improve this years team dramatically. Like fathom said, the time to act was in the offseason, but the 'inflated market' and KW's stubborness kept the Sox from signing an impact type player. What possition can be filled to improve this teams offense? What we need is a true leadoff LF. And i wanted Carl Crawford BAD in the offseason... What will it take to get him over here now? Probably Danks and Sweeney and I highly doubt KW would trade away Danks since he's learning how to pitch at the MLB much quicker than we all anticipated, not to mention he will be a cheap pitcher in our rotation for many years to come.

 

I think I'd give up Danks and Sweeney for Crawford. Danks is likely projected to be a number 3 starter at best, but he does appear to be the second coming of Mark Buehrle. However, for this to happen, the Sox absolutely cannot let Buehrle walk. Crawford dramatically upgrades the offense and I don't think there is much of a drop off if you use Masset/Sisco/Russel/Haeger in the #5 spot to finish the year out. I love Danks, but Carl Crawford fills a void (lead off spot) that is extremely difficult to fill for a few years.

 

And besides, if Crawford doesn't put the team in contention, they'll be able to dump the vets and replace Danks at the trade deadline.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

A lot depends on the progression of Gio and Russell for the fifth spot. Right now, you could pencil Masset or either of those two into the rotation and nobody would bat an eye at it.

 

At first I never liked Masset as a starter, but he needs to go to AAA and start, or at least be able to pitch more than once or twice a week. His two best outings were his start against the Cubs and his four or five inning outing against Cleveland. His biggest problem is that he can't locate his breaking stuff.

[beautox]

Crede is hitting like an overwhelmed AAA hitter these days and has a bad back. That doesnt scream, give me your best prospect.

 

agreed, but it does scream give me one of your many MI maybe Erick Aybar or Sean Rodriguez?

[Flash Tizzle]

yankees or red sox will offer santana 10/250

 

twins won't come within 100 million of that total

 

/end negotiations

 

we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball, and maybe one of the very best of all time

 

no way he stays in minneapolis, in my opinion

I actually agree with Hitless -- I don't believe Santana's departure is as inevitable as many make it out to be. As discussed before, there's additional revenue to expect from their new ballpark. His salary could be backloaded over the last half of a contract. Additionally, their rotation and bullpen -- if supplied from within -- will be dirt cheap entering 2008.

 

From a Twins perspective, it'd be interesting to recieve offers for Santana if he were shopped before next season. You're looking at atleast two of an organizations top prospects. I've envisioned a Kershaw/Elbert/additional piece swap with Los Angeles. And while it obviously doesn't compensate for a legitimate ace in Santana, you've just supplimented an already deep rotation with two #2 starters. It's literally freightening to imagine what they'll extract from other teams if trading Santana is actually considered. Even though I doubt such a scenario would unfold (esp. with Liriano), but it wouldn't shock me.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Flash Tizzle]

Ozzie rules out another 'White Flag Trade'

Guillen admits there's some pressure to make postseason run this year

 

MINNEAPOLIS -- There will be no ''White Flag Trade'' this year.

 

Not as far as White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen is concerned, anyway.

 

So all these rumors that free agents-to-be Mark Buehrle and Jermaine Dye could be sent elsewhere come July, well, they might as well cease.

''If Kenny came to me with that conversation today, I think he's a loser,'' Guillen said Tuesday, when asked if he and general manager Ken Williams have discussed that trade scenario. ''If I were to tell Kenny that, I'm a loser. And I know Kenny is not a loser. I know Kenny is going to do everything in his powers to win this division this year, and so are we.''

 

Guillen was still a player with the Sox in 1997 when the infamous ''White Flag Trade'' with the San Francisco Giants went down, so he's well-versed in both sides of it.

 

''It's never been talked about,'' Guillen said. ''Maybe Kenny has it in his mind, but he's never said one thing to me about it. I want to go all the way to the end with these guys, see what we can do with these guys.

 

''I'll be honest with [the media], I'll be honest with the fans, I'll be honest with me. If we get to that point, I'll be the first one to tell people, 'It's going to be hard to compete.' But as long as we feel we can win, we're going to keep those guys.''

 

Guillen did emphasize that he believes there's a certain amount of pressure to make a postseason run this season. Not because of payroll or job-security concerns, but because he doesn't know how long the window will stay open.

 

''I'll be completely honest with you and tell you I don't know what kind of team we're going to have next year,'' Guillen said. ''We have a lot of guys that are free agents, we have a lot of guys in the minor-league system that are close to coming up.

 

''I understand that we have to stay stable, and you cannot keep the same guy for 20 years. What kind of moves we'll make, what kind of money we'll have next year? I have no idea. The one thing I know is as long as you have pitching and defense, you are always going to compete.''

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...-ssep30.article

 

 

This is exactly the type of nonsense we'll hear around this town if the Sox are seven games out of playoff contention come mid-late June. Guillen doesn't understand the nature of this division, much less his team of its minor league depth. I'm sure the media will act the same way. His methods of determing whether the Sox can compete are probably drastically different then, say, someone who is responsible for constructing a roster.

 

And no, I don't expect Guillen to remain open to the idea of unloading current players at the trade deadline. But does he have to suggest calling Williams a loser if such a concept is brought up? I'm sure the media will be thirsting for a juicy quote from Guillen if certain players are traded midseason.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[beck72]

The time to act was in the offseason. There was little done to help this big league roster...a roster that looked dead tired all during the 2nd half last year. KW's inability to get major league ready talent for Garcia really hurt. I'm not sure how much it matters though....the Tigers/Indians are much more talented than we are, and they have younger legs. If Liriano can return for the Twins next year, there's no way you can project the Sox higher than 4th place for the next few seasons.

What deals should have been made? And exactly what deal was better than what the sox got from Philly? People may bash that with Floyd not looking good. But I haven't heard many other deals talked about that would have helped this sox team improve this .500 ballclub.

[beautox]

Anyway, for the Sox the truth of the matter is that they are on a collision with the Royals to battle for 4th place for the next 5 years unless something unlikely happens to turn things around (e.g. fantastic deadline trades of Buehrle & Garland that bring in a bunch of talent). I'm sure that sounds overly pessimistic, but the minor league system is so utterly devoid of talent that you're looking at a 4 or 5 year wait for an impact player to be brought up from the minors because they would have to be drafted this year. The rebuilding process could be accelerated by keeping the payroll high and getting a decent free agent or 2, but I doubt the payroll stays high when attendance drops.

 

no offense but i totally disagree with this statement.

 

we've got some interesting pieces coming up thorough our system.

 

Gio, Egbert, Russel, Masset, Floyd if he gets it together and De Los Santos is a ways away, then there is Haeger, Broadway & McCulloch

 

As far as position prospects we've got Fields, Sweeney, Anderson, Carter, and Cunningham. Carter is showing big time power and an exceptional eye, he looks to be the heir apparent to 1B.

 

We also have a good mix of interesting BP arms; all is not lost for sox fans.

 

This Team needs an influx of youth and speed to go along with the station to station baseball we've bore witness to for so long.

 

The Kids need to play.

 

If i we're KW these are the moves i would make this offseason provided we let mark, iguchi and dye walk.

 

Trade AJP and Uribe to the Blue Jays for OF Travis Snider & RHP Graham Godfrey. Their current SS is Royce Clayton and Zaun is on the DL and the decline. Snider is a very young OF with a ton of potential and tools unfortunately they Jays already have a stacked OF(Lind/Wells/Rios) That gives the sox an additional 10.5 to play with to go along with the 10mil they cleared when they traded Garcia.

 

Trade Jose along with Anderson and possibly Mmac if he gets his ERA down to something respectable or another BP arm(Sans Jenks, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset) for C Jarrod Saltalamacchia and SS Yunel Escobar. Salty is blocked by McCann and his value lies behind the dish, not to say his bat couldn't carry him to 1B, and Escobar is among the throngs of SS the braves have at both the ML and Milb level (Renteria/Andrus/Lillibridge/Fontaine). Jose is old, but he is still putting up good numbers and at times dominates, i think a change to the NL would only further that at 10mil a year he's a steal for the next two years, Kyle Davies hasn't lived up to expectations and they're still paying Hampton to sit on the DL. Both Brandon Jones and Matt Harrison won't be ready for another season and a half. Andruw Jones is going to become a FA and they'll need a CF who can cover ground like him and still has some power potential; enter BA i think he needs a change of scenery and consistent ML ABs. Mmac is a constant injury risk but when he is healthy and on hes a great setup man/closer. I just don't see us getting an All star caliber back stop that is great defensively calls a good game and knows how to hit with out giving up a bit.

 

Trade Joe Crede to one of the following teams The Giants or Angels for one of the following 4 players: From the Giants 2B Kevin Frandsen or 2B Marcus Sanders; From the Angels MI Erik Aybar or MI Sean Rodriguez. The Angels have Kendrik and Cabrera at SS & 2B respectively, and the Giants have Durham for 1 more season and the other 2B who doesn't get traded.

 

Try and get anything you can for Scott Podsednik & Alex Cintron, if not non tender.

 

Sign one of the following FA CF.

Ichiro (5/90)

Jones (8/$138M)

Hunter(6/85)

Rowand(6/85)

Fukudome(3/8-10)

 

With the money saved from making the moves stated above along with letting Mark, Dye & Iguchi walk the sox should easily be able to afford a marquee CFer.

 

Along with all those moves i would extend Jon to a 5 year deal (5/58?), jon gives us 200 innings has been incredibly durable and an ERA+ of 110 over the past 3 years on average and takes some preasure off the up and coming arms.

 

Also give Terrero enough rope for this season to either build a bridge into 08 or hang himself.

 

So now i present my version of the '08 white sox

 

LF - Erstad L

SS - Escobar R

DH - Thome L

1B - Konerko R

CF - Jones R

C - Saltallamachia S

3B - Fields R

RF - Sweeney L

2B - Aybar S

 

Erstad is merely a place holder unless we sign Ichiro in which case i would keep him as a bench player/all around good guy. With having acquired Snider and Cunningham developing we still need someone to fill in one of the 3 OF spots.

 

SP

Garland

Vazquez

Danks

Masset

Gio/Egbert/Broadway/Floyd/Haeger

 

BP

Jenks

Aardsma

Thornton

Logan(LOOGY)

Wassermann(ROOGY)

Russel/Perez/Vasquez/Reynoso/Sisco/Day

 

Bench

Hall

Mackowiak

Gonzalez

Terrero

Ozuna??

 

There is alot of question marks up and down the roster i would be the first to admit it, but if we expect to contend in 2-3 years you have to role the dice, the team to be is going to be Cleveland for what appears to be a long time. The tigers are getting old like us around the diamond but they've got alot of good young pitching, and the twins are weird place after this coming season. the royals still need alot of pitching.

 

anyways just my .02

[thedoctor]

no offense but i totally disagree with this statement.

 

we've got some interesting pieces coming up thorough our system.

 

Gio, Egbert, Russel, Masset, Floyd if he gets it together and De Los Santos is a ways away, then there is Haeger, Broadway & McCulloch

 

As far as position prospects we've got Fields, Sweeney, Anderson, Carter, and Cunningham. Carter is showing big time power and an exceptional eye, he looks to be the heir apparent to 1B.

 

We also have a good mix of interesting BP arms; all is not lost for sox fans.

 

This Team needs an influx of youth and speed to go along with the station to station baseball we've bore witness to for so long.

 

The Kids need to play.

 

If i we're KW these are the moves i would make this offseason provided we let mark, iguchi and dye walk.

 

Trade AJP and Uribe to the Blue Jays for OF Travis Snider & RHP Graham Godfrey. Their current SS is Royce Clayton and Zaun is on the DL and the decline. Snider is a very young OF with a ton of potential and tools unfortunately they Jays already have a stacked OF(Lind/Wells/Rios) That gives the sox an additional 10.5 to play with to go along with the 10mil they cleared when they traded Garcia.

 

Trade Jose along with Anderson and possibly Mmac if he gets his ERA down to something respectable or another BP arm(Sans Jenks, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset) for C Jarrod Saltalamacchia and SS Yunel Escobar. Salty is blocked by McCann and his value lies behind the dish, not to say his bat couldn't carry him to 1B, and Escobar is among the throngs of SS the braves have at both the ML and Milb level (Renteria/Andrus/Lillibridge/Fontaine). Jose is old, but he is still putting up good numbers and at times dominates, i think a change to the NL would only further that at 10mil a year he's a steal for the next two years, Kyle Davies hasn't lived up to expectations and they're still paying Hampton to sit on the DL. Both Brandon Jones and Matt Harrison won't be ready for another season and a half. Andruw Jones is going to become a FA and they'll need a CF who can cover ground like him and still has some power potential; enter BA i think he needs a change of scenery and consistent ML ABs. Mmac is a constant injury risk but when he is healthy and on hes a great setup man/closer. I just don't see us getting an All star caliber back stop that is great defensively calls a good game and knows how to hit with out giving up a bit.

 

Trade Joe Crede to one of the following teams The Giants or Angels for one of the following 4 players: From the Giants 2B Kevin Frandsen or 2B Marcus Sanders; From the Angels MI Erik Aybar or MI Sean Rodriguez. The Angels have Kendrik and Cabrera at SS & 2B respectively, and the Giants have Durham for 1 more season and the other 2B who doesn't get traded.

 

Try and get anything you can for Scott Podsednik & Alex Cintron, if not non tender.

 

Sign one of the following FA CF.

Ichiro (5/90)

Jones (8/$138M)

Hunter(6/85)

Rowand(6/85)

Fukudome(3/8-10)

 

With the money saved from making the moves stated above along with letting Mark, Dye & Iguchi walk the sox should easily be able to afford a marquee CFer.

 

Along with all those moves i would extend Jon to a 5 year deal (5/58?), jon gives us 200 innings has been incredibly durable and an ERA+ of 110 over the past 3 years on average and takes some preasure off the up and coming arms.

 

Also give Terrero enough rope for this season to either build a bridge into 08 or hang himself.

 

So now i present my version of the '08 white sox

 

LF - Erstad L

SS - Escobar R

DH - Thome L

1B - Konerko R

CF - Jones R

C - Saltallamachia S

3B - Fields R

RF - Sweeney L

2B - Aybar S

 

Erstad is merely a place holder unless we sign Ichiro in which case i would keep him as a bench player/all around good guy. With having acquired Snider and Cunningham developing we still need someone to fill in one of the 3 OF spots.

 

SP

Garland

Vazquez

Danks

Masset

Gio/Egbert/Broadway/Floyd/Haeger

 

BP

Jenks

Aardsma

Thornton

Logan(LOOGY)

Wassermann(ROOGY)

Russel/Perez/Vasquez/Reynoso/Sisco/Day

 

Bench

Hall

Mackowiak

Gonzalez

Terrero

Ozuna??

 

There is alot of question marks up and down the roster i would be the first to admit it, but if we expect to contend in 2-3 years you have to role the dice, the team to be is going to be Cleveland for what appears to be a long time. The tigers are getting old like us around the diamond but they've got alot of good young pitching, and the twins are weird place after this coming season. the royals still need alot of pitching.

 

anyways just my .02

 

dude, that was way more than two cents.

[beautox]

dude, that was way more than two cents.

 

so it is

 

[caulfield12]

no offense but i totally disagree with this statement.

 

we've got some interesting pieces coming up thorough our system.

 

Gio, Egbert, Russel, Masset, Floyd if he gets it together and De Los Santos is a ways away, then there is Haeger, Broadway & McCulloch

 

As far as position prospects we've got Fields, Sweeney, Anderson, Carter, and Cunningham. Carter is showing big time power and an exceptional eye, he looks to be the heir apparent to 1B.

 

We also have a good mix of interesting BP arms; all is not lost for sox fans.

 

This Team needs an influx of youth and speed to go along with the station to station baseball we've bore witness to for so long.

 

The Kids need to play.

 

If i we're KW these are the moves i would make this offseason provided we let mark, iguchi and dye walk.

 

Trade AJP and Uribe to the Blue Jays for OF Travis Snider & RHP Graham Godfrey. Their current SS is Royce Clayton and Zaun is on the DL and the decline. Snider is a very young OF with a ton of potential and tools unfortunately they Jays already have a stacked OF(Lind/Wells/Rios) That gives the sox an additional 10.5 to play with to go along with the 10mil they cleared when they traded Garcia.

 

Trade Jose along with Anderson and possibly Mmac if he gets his ERA down to something respectable or another BP arm(Sans Jenks, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset) for C Jarrod Saltalamacchia and SS Yunel Escobar. Salty is blocked by McCann and his value lies behind the dish, not to say his bat couldn't carry him to 1B, and Escobar is among the throngs of SS the braves have at both the ML and Milb level (Renteria/Andrus/Lillibridge/Fontaine). Jose is old, but he is still putting up good numbers and at times dominates, i think a change to the NL would only further that at 10mil a year he's a steal for the next two years, Kyle Davies hasn't lived up to expectations and they're still paying Hampton to sit on the DL. Both Brandon Jones and Matt Harrison won't be ready for another season and a half. Andruw Jones is going to become a FA and they'll need a CF who can cover ground like him and still has some power potential; enter BA i think he needs a change of scenery and consistent ML ABs. Mmac is a constant injury risk but when he is healthy and on hes a great setup man/closer. I just don't see us getting an All star caliber back stop that is great defensively calls a good game and knows how to hit with out giving up a bit.

 

Trade Joe Crede to one of the following teams The Giants or Angels for one of the following 4 players: From the Giants 2B Kevin Frandsen or 2B Marcus Sanders; From the Angels MI Erik Aybar or MI Sean Rodriguez. The Angels have Kendrik and Cabrera at SS & 2B respectively, and the Giants have Durham for 1 more season and the other 2B who doesn't get traded.

 

Try and get anything you can for Scott Podsednik & Alex Cintron, if not non tender.

 

Sign one of the following FA CF.

Ichiro (5/90)

Jones (8/$138M)

Hunter(6/85)

Rowand(6/85)

Fukudome(3/8-10)

 

With the money saved from making the moves stated above along with letting Mark, Dye & Iguchi walk the sox should easily be able to afford a marquee CFer.

 

Along with all those moves i would extend Jon to a 5 year deal (5/58?), jon gives us 200 innings has been incredibly durable and an ERA+ of 110 over the past 3 years on average and takes some preasure off the up and coming arms.

 

Also give Terrero enough rope for this season to either build a bridge into 08 or hang himself.

 

So now i present my version of the '08 white sox

 

LF - Erstad L

SS - Escobar R

DH - Thome L

1B - Konerko R

CF - Jones R

C - Saltallamachia S

3B - Fields R

RF - Sweeney L

2B - Aybar S

 

Erstad is merely a place holder unless we sign Ichiro in which case i would keep him as a bench player/all around good guy. With having acquired Snider and Cunningham developing we still need someone to fill in one of the 3 OF spots.

 

SP

Garland

Vazquez

Danks

Masset

Gio/Egbert/Broadway/Floyd/Haeger

 

BP

Jenks

Aardsma

Thornton

Logan(LOOGY)

Wassermann(ROOGY)

Russel/Perez/Vasquez/Reynoso/Sisco/Day

 

Bench

Hall

Mackowiak

Gonzalez

Terrero

Ozuna??

 

There is alot of question marks up and down the roster i would be the first to admit it, but if we expect to contend in 2-3 years you have to role the dice, the team to be is going to be Cleveland for what appears to be a long time. The tigers are getting old like us around the diamond but they've got alot of good young pitching, and the twins are weird place after this coming season. the royals still need alot of pitching.

 

anyways just my .02

 

Andruw Jones is getting too old if we're in "rebuilding" mode, it all depends on how much of our starting rotation is retained...if we keep all of our starters from this year for next year, then you THINK about adding a Jones, Hunter, Ichiro, etc., for one last gasp at contention.

 

Wasserman? We're in trouble if we can't do any better than that.

 

Crede is going to have to dramatically increase his level of play to get any of the players that were mentioned...and Aybar's OPS and OBP marks leave a lot to be desired for him to be a full-time starter at SS or 2B.

 

I don't think Uribe's going to have an easy time being perceived as a potential starter by other teams if he keeps this up.

 

The line-up you're putting out there has six "question marks," although I guess it can't be any worse than what we have now...OTOH, it would be impossible to trot out that line-up and say we're not rebuilding for 2008.

[caulfield12]

no offense but i totally disagree with this statement.

 

we've got some interesting pieces coming up thorough our system.

 

Gio, Egbert, Russel, Masset, Floyd if he gets it together and De Los Santos is a ways away, then there is Haeger, Broadway & McCulloch

 

As far as position prospects we've got Fields, Sweeney, Anderson, Carter, and Cunningham. Carter is showing big time power and an exceptional eye, he looks to be the heir apparent to 1B.

 

We also have a good mix of interesting BP arms; all is not lost for sox fans.

 

This Team needs an influx of youth and speed to go along with the station to station baseball we've bore witness to for so long.

 

The Kids need to play.

 

If i we're KW these are the moves i would make this offseason provided we let mark, iguchi and dye walk.

 

Trade AJP and Uribe to the Blue Jays for OF Travis Snider & RHP Graham Godfrey. Their current SS is Royce Clayton and Zaun is on the DL and the decline. Snider is a very young OF with a ton of potential and tools unfortunately they Jays already have a stacked OF(Lind/Wells/Rios) That gives the sox an additional 10.5 to play with to go along with the 10mil they cleared when they traded Garcia.

 

Trade Jose along with Anderson and possibly Mmac if he gets his ERA down to something respectable or another BP arm(Sans Jenks, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset) for C Jarrod Saltalamacchia and SS Yunel Escobar. Salty is blocked by McCann and his value lies behind the dish, not to say his bat couldn't carry him to 1B, and Escobar is among the throngs of SS the braves have at both the ML and Milb level (Renteria/Andrus/Lillibridge/Fontaine). Jose is old, but he is still putting up good numbers and at times dominates, i think a change to the NL would only further that at 10mil a year he's a steal for the next two years, Kyle Davies hasn't lived up to expectations and they're still paying Hampton to sit on the DL. Both Brandon Jones and Matt Harrison won't be ready for another season and a half. Andruw Jones is going to become a FA and they'll need a CF who can cover ground like him and still has some power potential; enter BA i think he needs a change of scenery and consistent ML ABs. Mmac is a constant injury risk but when he is healthy and on hes a great setup man/closer. I just don't see us getting an All star caliber back stop that is great defensively calls a good game and knows how to hit with out giving up a bit.

 

Trade Joe Crede to one of the following teams The Giants or Angels for one of the following 4 players: From the Giants 2B Kevin Frandsen or 2B Marcus Sanders; From the Angels MI Erik Aybar or MI Sean Rodriguez. The Angels have Kendrik and Cabrera at SS & 2B respectively, and the Giants have Durham for 1 more season and the other 2B who doesn't get traded.

 

Try and get anything you can for Scott Podsednik & Alex Cintron, if not non tender.

 

Sign one of the following FA CF.

Ichiro (5/90)

Jones (8/$138M)

Hunter(6/85)

Rowand(6/85)

Fukudome(3/8-10)

 

With the money saved from making the moves stated above along with letting Mark, Dye & Iguchi walk the sox should easily be able to afford a marquee CFer.

 

Along with all those moves i would extend Jon to a 5 year deal (5/58?), jon gives us 200 innings has been incredibly durable and an ERA+ of 110 over the past 3 years on average and takes some preasure off the up and coming arms.

 

Also give Terrero enough rope for this season to either build a bridge into 08 or hang himself.

 

So now i present my version of the '08 white sox

 

LF - Erstad L

SS - Escobar R

DH - Thome L

1B - Konerko R

CF - Jones R

C - Saltallamachia S

3B - Fields R

RF - Sweeney L

2B - Aybar S

 

Erstad is merely a place holder unless we sign Ichiro in which case i would keep him as a bench player/all around good guy. With having acquired Snider and Cunningham developing we still need someone to fill in one of the 3 OF spots.

 

SP

Garland

Vazquez

Danks

Masset

Gio/Egbert/Broadway/Floyd/Haeger

 

BP

Jenks

Aardsma

Thornton

Logan(LOOGY)

Wassermann(ROOGY)

Russel/Perez/Vasquez/Reynoso/Sisco/Day

 

Bench

Hall

Mackowiak

Gonzalez

Terrero

Ozuna??

 

There is alot of question marks up and down the roster i would be the first to admit it, but if we expect to contend in 2-3 years you have to role the dice, the team to be is going to be Cleveland for what appears to be a long time. The tigers are getting old like us around the diamond but they've got alot of good young pitching, and the twins are weird place after this coming season. the royals still need alot of pitching.

 

anyways just my .02

 

Andruw Jones is getting too old if we're in "rebuilding" mode, it all depends on how much of our starting rotation is retained...if we keep all of our starters from this year for next year, then you THINK about adding a Jones, Hunter, Ichiro, etc., for one last gasp at contention.

 

Wasserman? We're in trouble if we can't do any better than that.

 

Crede is going to have to dramatically increase his level of play to get any of the players that were mentioned...and Aybar's OPS and OBP marks leave a lot to be desired for him to be a full-time starter at SS or 2B.

 

I don't think Uribe's going to have an easy time being perceived as a potential starter by other teams if he keeps this up.

 

The line-up you're putting out there has six "question marks," although I guess it can't be any worse than what we have now...OTOH, it would be impossible to trot out that line-up and say we're not rebuilding for 2008.

[hitlesswonder]

no offense but i totally disagree with this statement.

we've got some interesting pieces coming up thorough our system.

No offense taken. I'll go ahead and disagree in return though. I don't see anyone in the Sox minor league system that is likely to be even an average major league starting position player or a top of the rotation pitcher.

 

Gio, Egbert, Russel, Masset, Floyd if he gets it together and De Los Santos is a ways away, then there is Haeger, Broadway & McCulloch

Of all those guys, only Gio has major league quality stuff (low-90's fatsball and a quality breaking pitch). And he has to prove he and his straight fastball can avoid HRs in a park like Charlotte's before anyone can really predict major league success. Egbert and Russel are having OK years in a big park and can at least be considered prospects. De Los Santos has had a good game in A ball. Floyd, Haeger, Broadway, and McCulloch are non-prospects at this point. Does anyone think the Sox are going to get a sub-6.50 ERA out of any of those guys at the big league level? The big problem is that the Sox don't have a single prospect as good as any of one of as Baker, Garza, Slowey, Bonser, and Liriano. No one in the Sox organization projects as a top-flight starter.

 

As far as position prospects we've got Fields, Sweeney, Anderson, Carter, and Cunningham. Carter is showing big time power and an exceptional eye, he looks to be the heir apparent to 1B.

 

Fields has an atrocious contact rate and will struggle just like BA at the big league level. BA still has his own contact problem and simply cannot hit major league pitching (I saw a stat about his contact rate against breaking balls recently -- I don't remember what it was precisely, but it was terrible). In any case, BA is done in Chicago. Sweeney has never hit for power, even in Charlotte. He has never dominated at any level of the minors. The Sox will be lucky if he has Sean Burroughs career. Cunningham has been struggling in A ball after a hot start and guys like Carter (decent A ball power numbers and suspect 1B glove) are all over the minor leagues. It's true the Sox have some prospects, but just because they are the Sox top prospects doesn't mean they are good prospects.

 

Trade Jose along with Anderson and possibly Mmac if he gets his ERA down to something respectable or another BP arm(Sans Jenks, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset) for C Jarrod Saltalamacchia and SS Yunel Escobar.

 

I can't comment on most of the proposed trades because I just don't know enough, but I'm pretty sure that package wouldn't bring back Saltalamachia alone let Salty and Escobar. An aging overpriced starter, a bullpen guy with an ERA over 6, a CF prospect that hasn't hit a lick for a player that could bring back someone like Mark Texiera or one of Tampa's OFs? I don't see the Braves doing it...

[caulfield12]

No offense taken. I'll go ahead and disagree in return though. I don't see anyone in the Sox minor league system that is likely to be even an average major league starting position player or a top of the rotation pitcher.

Of all those guys, only Gio has major league quality stuff (low-90's fatsball and a quality breaking pitch). And he has to prove he and his straight fastball can avoid HRs in a park like Charlotte's before anyone can really predict major league success. Egbert and Russel are having OK years in a big park and can at least be considered prospects. De Los Santos has had a good game in A ball. Floyd, Haeger, Broadway, and McCulloch are non-prospects at this point. Does anyone think the Sox are going to get a sub-6.50 ERA out of any of those guys at the big league level? The big problem is that the Sox don't have a single prospect as good as any of one of as Baker, Garza, Slowey, Bonser, and Liriano. No one in the Sox organization projects as a top-flight starter.

Fields has an atrocious contact rate and will struggle just like BA at the big league level. BA still has his own contact problem and simply cannot hit major league pitching (I saw a stat about his contact rate against breaking balls recently -- I don't remember what it was precisely, but it was terrible). In any case, BA is done in Chicago. Sweeney has never hit for power, even in Charlotte. He has never dominated at any level of the minors. The Sox will be lucky if he has Sean Burroughs career. Cunningham has been struggling in A ball after a hot start and guys like Carter (decent A ball power numbers and suspect 1B glove) are all over the minor leagues. It's true the Sox have some prospects, but just because they are the Sox top prospects doesn't mean they are good prospects.

I can't comment on most of the proposed trades because I just don't know enough, but I'm pretty sure that package wouldn't bring back Saltalamachia alone let Salty and Escobar. An aging overpriced starter, a bullpen guy with an ERA over 6, a CF prospect that hasn't hit a lick for a player that could bring back someone like Mark Texiera or one of Tampa's OFs? I don't see the Braves doing it...

 

Baker has good stuff, but that doesn't mean anything at all. Slowey profiles more like a Matt Guerrier or Josh Stewart type. I see him as a very good AAA starter who struggles in the major leagues. I actually think Perkins might end up as a better starter in 2-3 years. We'll find out soon enough with Slowey as well, he's supposed to replace Ortiz in the rotation.

 

I'll ask again, when's the last time the Twins produced an everyday starting pitcher from within their organization? The answer is Brad Radke.

 

You could take 100 scouts and give them a choice between Bonser/Garza/Baker/Slowey/Perkins and Gio/Floyd/Russell/Masset/Danks and about 70-80% of them would take the White Sox prospects.

 

I give a lot of credit to the Twins, but they're also going to be hard-pressed to compete against the Tigers and Indians given the lack of production from LF (unless Kubel steps up and becomes an everyday player), 3B and SS. They're missing a big bat almost as much as the White Sox are.

 

Look how long it has taken Kubel and Cuddyer to become solid players, even Morneau struggled for much of his first two seasons, until June of last year, when he was about to go to the minors. Mauer is one of the few who contributed right away, but he wasn't great as a rookie, just very good (when healthy).

 

The White Sox are going to need to have a lot of patience with Fields. Unfortunately, he fits well into their "all or nothing" offensive approach. Sweeney and Owens are more the type of players the White Sox need...better contact, better fundamentals, doubles and triples hitters...at least what they are projected to be.

 

The question with every move the Sox make...does it make us younger? Faster/more athletic? Cheaper?

 

We're heading into another crisis with our catching situation in a year, since Lucy and Francisco Hernandez and whoever you can name are far from projected everyday catchers in the major leagues. This has always been a weakness in the system, from Kurt Brown to Joel Skinner, from Mark Johnson to Olivo. Heck, having Ron Karkovice's equivalent will be nice in 1-2 years, but I highly doubt we'll see another catcher who can bunt so well in our lifetimes.

[RockRaines]

Boy you would think we are mathematically eliminated by the talk on this board. This team isnt supposed to lose a single series I take it?

[caulfield12]

Boy you would think we are mathematically eliminated by the talk on this board. This team isnt supposed to lose a single series I take it?

 

 

I think it's a few things...

 

1) It's the Twins, AGAIN (see Burke getting run over by Hunter, Guillen dubbing the Piranhas in 06 or AJ/Morneau in 2007, we never seem to come out on the plus side)

 

2) Our starting pitching is now struggling for the first time since the Opening Week

 

3) Our bullpen is the worst in the AL statistically, and close to the lead in blown saves as well

 

4) The Twins are playing without Mauer and Rondell White, our excuse is that we're missing Pods? Because we really haven't had the "real" Pods since July of 2005 and will be unlikely to ever see him again.

 

5) Physically, our players look beaten...and the loss last night, you saw little fight in the Sox. Yeah, you could say they were flat, some will argue Ozzie's lost the clubhouse, but there's been something missing with this club going on four months now, and that makes it hard to believe it's just going to magically "fix itself."

[RME JICO]

Boy you would think we are mathematically eliminated by the talk on this board. This team isnt supposed to lose a single series I take it?

Its hard to be positive with the play of the team.

 

No they can't win every game or every series, but losing 11-5, 10-4, and 9-2 is not really a good sign. The pitching has regressed like it was going to eventually do, the bullpen is still in shambles and the hitting has only showed small signs of recovery. With the easier schedule until mid July, this team will continue to hang in there until that point. However, if the team does not improve over that time, the season will be over a lot sooner than last year.

Edited May 30, 2007 by RME JICO