Disaster

[AirScott]

Scioscia almost always uses K-Rod to "shorten the game" in these situations, despite their fine bullpen.

 

And Gardenhire used Nathan in a tie game, although it was "at home."

Not all of them do it. I remember Francona did it once and a lot of people were asking why it's not standard procedure.

[RockRaines]

Ozzie brought in DA instead of Jenks, he gets the glory and sure as hell gets the blame!

So that was the reason we lost huh? I really thought it was the fact that we were up 6-1 in the 3rd inning and decided to walk and error our way to a loss. I coulda sworn thats what did us in. Of course I could be wrong.

[briguy27]

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

May 25th versus TB, one inning

5 days off. WHY?!!?!?!?

[GoSox05]

Ozzie brought in DA instead of Jenks, he gets the glory and sure as hell gets the blame!

 

 

So it has nothing to do with the fact that are offense doesnt score past the 3rd inning, that Jon Garland walked 5 batters, that Mac loaded the bases in the 9th or the error in the ninth.

 

We have to be able to trust any of our bullpen to win games in tight spots. You cant always depend on one guy.

[caulfield12]

5 days off. WHY?!!?!?!?

 

I'm hoping Cowley and Gonzalez and Gregor will have the temerity to ask...

[briguy27]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ah he coulda. Nice philosophy. No other manager in baseball would have kept their closer on the bench in hopes we get a run the next inning with the heart of our order up. s*** who even knows if Bobby is healthy, oh wait, everyone on Soxtalk knows.

yea, but u have to get to that part where the middle of the order actually comes up. and they didnt. let bobby go 2 innings, afterall, he hasnt pitched in 5 days. and i hope he pitches tomorrow and gives up 2 runs so everyone can b**** at him, when in reality, ozzie shouldnt of let him sit for 5 days

Edited May 30, 2007 by briguy27

[StrangeSox]

ah he coulda. Nice philosophy. No other manager in baseball would have kept their closer on the bench in hopes we get a run the next inning with the heart of our order up. s*** who even knows if Bobby is healthy, oh wait, everyone on Soxtalk knows.

 

The players suck ass AND Guillen makes at least one terrible move per series. Happy now?

[Texsox]

There is no one person they can trade for that will magically turn this team into a juggernaut.

[RockRaines]

garland is getting off the hook so easy with you cliff jumpers. The key part of the game to everyone is not bringing in our closer in a non save situation (which he does pretty terrible in for his career) and watching a pitcher walk in a run without a pitch close to the plate. Dont blame the players who had 20 walks in this series, dont blame the offense who couldnt muster a threat past the 3rd inning, or the starting pitcher who apparently was afraid of a 5 run lead. Blame the manager for making a basic decision that just happened to go wrong. And I thought White Sox fans were known for being knowledgable.

[caulfield12]

So it has nothing to do with the fact that are offense doesnt score past the 3rd inning, that Jon Garland walked 5 batters, that Mac loaded the bases in the 9th or the error in the ninth.

 

We have to be able to trust any of our bullpen to win games in tight spots. You cant always depend on one guy.

 

Konerko definitely deserves a 25% share of the blame, along with our offense after Baker left, Ozzie's decision making with the pen is probably 25%, and Garland's lack of control...I don't think they would have gotten an out anywhere on the field with forceout, it would have been an interesting play at first, but Cintron doesn't have the arm to get the ball there from deep in the hole.

[briguy27]

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no one person they can trade for that will magically turn this team into a juggernaut.

i dont think anyone is asking for a juggernaut. i think they just want this team to perform at a higher level, and not be in 4th f***in place. ichiro? griffey? weathers?

[GoSox05]

we dont need a juggernaut. All we need is bullpen pitchers that throw strikes. They dont all have to be that good. just three. Just throw strikes.

[briguy27]

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

we dont need a juggernaut. All we need is bullpen pitchers that throw strikes. They dont all have to be that good. just three. Just throw strikes.

yep well im out. i got finals tomorrow. ill talk to u during the massacare tomorrow

[AirScott]

There is no one person they can trade for that will magically turn this team into a juggernaut.

I didn't say Weathers would turn the team into a juggernaut. But it would shore up most of the bullpen woes, methinks.

[The Ginger Kid]

if they do start making trades I hope it's for young, proven talent. However, it's much to soon -- we can get much more bang for our buck waiting until the deadline. In the meantime, we're in for a rough ride.

[StrangeSox]

we dont need a juggernaut. All we need is bullpen pitchers that throw strikes. They dont all have to be that good. just three. Just throw strikes.

 

And a complete offensive turn around. And we need to pitchers to start giving quality starts again.

[caulfield12]

i dont think anyone is asking for a juggernaut. i think they just want this team to perform at a higher level, and not be in 4th f***in place. ichiro? griffey? weathers?

 

 

We're not in a position that selling the remainder of our farm system (see Gio, Russell, De Los Santos for Ichiro) makes any sense at all.

 

Those names are players that you add when you have a sure-fire 85-90 win team to put you over the top.

 

I don't think anyone could say that we're that good.

 

What do you do in 2 years when we have absolutely NO minor league pitching and have to pay through the fist for it....which the White Sox have never shown a willingness to do?

 

You get fifth starters like the White Sox ran out there from 01-04, costing us dearly in 2003, when all we had to do was spend $3-4 million on someone like Kenny Rogers, who the Twins, once again, beat us to, despite their obvious lack of resources and revenues.

[fathom]

ah he coulda. Nice philosophy. No other manager in baseball would have kept their closer on the bench in hopes we get a run the next inning with the heart of our order up. s*** who even knows if Bobby is healthy, oh wait, everyone on Soxtalk knows.

 

If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies.

 

I didn't say Weathers would turn the team into a juggernaut. But it would shore up most of the bullpen woes, methinks.

 

Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him.

[caulfield12]

If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies.

Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him.

 

 

And the fact that he got a hit on Monday (bases clearing double) in that same situation, right?

 

Or was that just my imagination?

[Texsox]

From where we are at, it will take more than one hot arm in the bullpen to turn around this season. Of course the most likely turn around to a play off berth is these same players turning around and getting out of a slump. Their collective talent level is enough to make the playoffs, but they have to start clicking. I don't see a magical trade that would make that big of a difference.

 

I also have moved from the Ozzie and Walker supporters to the fence sitters.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies.

 

How about that rolling breaking ball he hit off of Garland? That wasn't a fastball.

 

Bill Melton was on the postgame and he said it ticks him off because other teams know how to get hunter out. Basically you pitch him in on his hands and then he will chase offspeed stuff down and away.

 

Let's face it this was a total team loss.

[caulfield12]

If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies.

Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him.

 

The Tigers are without Zumaya and Rodney, DD and that ownership group will spend the money to fix that bullpen, be sure of that. And Grilli hasn't pitched well either.

 

I think I saw something about Roman Colon possibly coming back.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

How about that rolling breaking ball he hit off of Garland? That wasn't a fastball.

 

Bill Melton was on the postgame and he said it ticks him off because other teams know how to get hunter out. Basically you pitch him in on his hands and then he will chase offspeed stuff down and away.

 

Let's face it this was a total team loss.

 

Good point by Melton. I can't remember the last time that we pitched Hunter inside.

[AirScott]

Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him.

Tell me why he's terrible, and wouldn't be the one proven, solid veteran in our pen?

 

And don't bring up his ERA.

[kwolf68]

This is just not a very good team and I doubt it is capable of making post-season....

 

we have the most lackluster middle in baseball...uribe, iguchi and erstad? That is very ordinary. We are adequate at catcher with AJP and Hall, but do we have anyone in the wings?

 

the corners are good enough, but Crede's value was at its highest in the off-season. We can only speculate what kind of offers we may have gotten from the padres or angels, but at this point we probably can't deal him...he has all kinds of negatives to include his back and Boras.

 

The outfield is a proverbial joke. J.Dye is still productive, but he is wearing down some. Erstad is a solid ROLE player, who can play mutiple positions and help in a platoon situation. He isn't a guy a championship team would give 550 ABs to.

 

Left Field, is disgraceful. And it appears Sweeney, Fields, and Anderson are either A) Not ready, B) Just not good enough.

 

The bullpen is a trainwreck, but there is youth and potential out there. MacDougal's failure and Thornton's early season slump (he's been much better lately) have made the pen look worse than it is. I do think the pen can turn it around. What do you want to do? We went out and made a bunch of deals last year to improve the pen (Massett, Sisco, MacDougal last year, Aardsma) getting rid of Cotts, Vizcaino, and Pollitte only to STILL HAVE a s***ty pen.

 

I am not ready for a fire sale, but I think the All Star break is the cutoff time. If we haven't seen major progress, then I think Kenny Williams needs to make some major deals.

 

I'd love to keep Mark Buehrle, but I fear he'll be one of the first dealt, because he would be an instant shot to any rotation in baseball. And lets face it...he'd probably bring us the best bounty of return talent. Garland, Count, and Vazquez are all nice pitchers...and I could see any of them being dealt.

 

The minors appear to be no help right now. We call up Day, Gonzalez, Wiki, Sweeney and they all look terribly overmatched. Our best prospects are AA or A ball...

 

It is imperative we improve our talent across the board, because of the talent in Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit and KC...Det and KC drafted at the top of the order for much of this past decade (Detroit with Andrew Miller for example) and at some point that will start paying off. The White Sox haven't had a 100 loss year to go up and get a Tim Lincecum or Andrew Miller. I don't want that either.

 

I'd rather trade for someone currently moving up the minor league systems instead of sucking terribly and then hoping our draft pick works out. We have some very valuable commodities and if this team is well out by July and showing no signs then I would totally approve of a major youth movement.

Edited May 30, 2007 by kwolf68