Putting This One Right Where It Belongs -- On Kenny Williams

[SoxAce]

This year.

 

Pitching in the weak NL does help your cause as well for El Duque.

 

Could had sworn I typed that.

[fathom]

So 3 games? OK. Yeah - McCarthy is/was overrated. We got at least 2 and maybe 3 good players for him. Good job Kenny.

 

How did this turn into an argument about his trade value? We were talking about Ozzie prefering veterans over young players. Someone brought up a great example of this.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Duque's pitching in one of the best pitcher's parks in the NL, and McCarthy in one of the worst pitcher's parks in the AL. I'm very happy with what we've seen from Danks so far, but I really think McCarthy will put up respectable numbers this year. I would say it's about a 60 pct chance that Danks ends the season with a better ERA than McCarthy.

I will cheer for my favorite team's players and could care less about ex-white sox. You cheer for other team's players if you want. Kudos to you.

[SoxAce]

And Duque's pitching in one of the best pitcher's parks in the NL, and McCarthy in one of the worst pitcher's parks in the AL. I'm very happy with what we've seen from Danks so far, but I really think McCarthy will put up respectable numbers this year. I would say it's about a 60 pct chance that Danks ends the season with a better ERA than McCarthy.

 

Excellent point.

[Kalapse]

This year.

El Duque has already missed a month due to injury.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How did this turn into an argument about his trade value? We were talking about Ozzie prefering veterans over young players. Someone brought up a great example of this.

The great example brought this conversation on. I am just guessing. I could be wrong.

 

 

QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

El Duque has already missed a month due to injury.

Oh yeah. Lets see how long McCarthy is out with a boo boo on his finger.

[Dick Allen]

Is KW the coach or manager? Thank you.

No, he's their boss.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Hendrickson's been better for the Dodgers this year than Billingsley has.

 

My fault, I meant Tomko. He is out of the rotation now, but who are they replacing him with? Hong Chi-Kuo or DJ Houlton!

[fathom]

I will cheer for my favorite team's players and could care less about ex-white sox. You cheer for other team's players if you want. Kudos to you.

 

I have no players I root for outside of the White Sox. Hell, I grew up playing with Curtis Granderson, but I don't root for him to do good. I'll root for any players that help beat whoever the Sox are contending against for a playoff spot, and whoever is facing the Cubs.

[Kalapse]

The great example brought this conversation on. I am just guessing. I could be wrong.

Oh yeah. Lets see how long McCarthy is out with a boo boo on his finger.

It looks like the blister will cost him 1 start, the sore shoulder on the other hand has cost El Duque 6 and possibly more seeing as how he's now showing some concern after his first start back.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Brandon McCarthy vs. El Duque August 2005.

 

Let me add Brian Anderson vs. Rob Mackowiak 2006 from about June on.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aardsma isn't exactly this young pitcher straight out of the minors. He's not the type of player that we were referencing that Ozzie doesn't prefer.

 

Well i can't speak for "we" as you can, I can only speak for me, and I was commenting on Aardsma having less experience than Jenks, seeing as you stated you (we?) want a mgr. who is more patient with young players and the particular mgr. was getting skewered for not going with a more experienced guy in a key situation this aft.

 

For the record I would say Masset and Aardsma and Logan and Dewon Day fall into the inexperienced category in the Sox pen. I would have said Sisco too but mercifully he is doing his I can't throw strikes act in Charlotte. It may not be the worst idea to send Aardsma there for a week or two but maybe they don't want to burn an option year and prefer to let him work his problems out here. He among others though clearly have a problem throwing strike 1 right now.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

It will be really interesting to see what the Sox do in the draft this year. I would like to see them spend a lot of money, take a lot of "signability guys" in the later rounds. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs do this all the time. The Yankees have really improved their system over the last couple of years going this route. I highly doubt the Sox will though.

[Dick Allen]

It will be really interesting to see what the Sox do in the draft this year. I would like to see them spend a lot of money, take a lot of "signability guys" in the later rounds. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs do this all the time. The Yankees have really improved their system over the last couple of years going this route. I highly doubt the Sox will though.

At least you'll be able to admire Vazquez's 6 inning 5 run 7 k games through the 2010 season.

[elrockinMT]

The problem is players not performing to expectations or ability. It can still be turned around, but this series against the Twins is hard to swallow. But, it started with that last game versus Tampa.

[Whitewashed in '05]

The problem is players not performing to expectations or ability. It can still be turned around, but this series against the Twins is hard to swallow. But, it started with that last game versus Tampa.

The season is by no means over. A lot of people are pissed off just because of how many games this team has blown and I have said it, it is FRUSTRATING.

 

It really is nuts how some bad years and crappy players mixed in can have such a negative affect on the teams future outlook.

 

We've seen it before, if KW can get a steal or two through trade, sign a guy, another come up through farm system and the current players we have perform up to career norms we don't look so bad.

 

If they put together a winning streak and win series like they were before the pitching fell apart we should hang in there. Then again will the pitching come back? That's something KW will have to address. There are far too many holes for him to just stand pat. He needs to begin plugging in holes now for the present and future.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Whitewashed in '05

[AirScott]

The season is by no means over. A lot of people are pissed off just because of how many games this team has blown and I have said it, it is FRUSTRATING.

 

It really is nuts how some bad years and crappy players mixed in can have such a negative affect on the teams future outlook.

 

We've seen it before, if KW can get a steal or two through trade, sign a guy, another come up through farm system and the current players we have perform up to career norms we don't look so bad.

In terms of competing for a World Series (which is the ultimate goal, isn't it?), one trade needs to be made, and that's for a veteran reliever. I've thrown out David Weathers' name as one possibility, simply because June hasn't even arrived yet so there is no telling who could become available.

 

I think people would be less suicidal if the losses weren't coming in this fashion (the bullpen blowing it), but I think the talent is there to compete for and possibly earn a playoff berth (division or wild card). The talent is there and the playoffs are possible the way this team is now.

[gosox41]

We have a bullpen of hard throwers, not pitchers. These so-called "power arms" would be, most importantly, locked up for years on first contracts. But many, many people on this site noted that several of these guys had problems getting the ball over the plate. And guess what? They can't. But they are locked up for years at reasonable rates.

 

We have a roster -- and minor league system, apparently -- that rewards guys who swing hard, strike out a lot, and look great in a uniform. But they don't seem to play the game with intelligence or heart.

 

We have little to no offense from LF and SS this year. Last year, we had little to no offense from LF and SS. No improvements were made, other than a heavy investment in wishful thinking about guys turning it around.

 

This one's on the general manager, for hedging this season -- and sacrificing mightily -- for the promise of payroll predictability and undefined, uncertain and unlikely tomorrows.

 

The next time he wants to go on a rant about wanting to see better performance, he should start with himself.

 

 

Then equal blame should go to Ozzie since he has a say in personnel moves. Ozzie ball has always been a myth anyway. Look at the stats, even in 2005.

 

 

 

Bob

[fathom]

The problem is players not performing to expectations or ability. It can still be turned around, but this series against the Twins is hard to swallow. But, it started with that last game versus Tampa.

 

No one stops momentum like Javy Vazquez.

[Gregory Pratt]

I think it's a two way straight with Ozzie and the young prospects. Ozzie is so much like every manager when it comes to veteran-versus-rookie when it comes to his love for veterans.

 

--

 

Beyond that, I'd like to say: KW did a terrible job last offseason. Not with the bullpen, IMO. The results aren't good but I don't blame him. I just think the offense needed serious retooling and said so often.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

For the record, this thread has one of the best titles I have ever seen.

 

Thanks. Looks like I really started something here.

[29thandPoplar]

Some of Guillen's remarks post game:

 

"They compete as a team. They get you as a team, and that's why they win," said Guillen, who alternated between blaming himself and criticizing his players throughout his postgame remarks.

 

Guillen has long been impressed by the Twins, who sped by the slumping White Sox last summer on the way to their fourth division title in the last five years. But he pinned most of the afternoon's performance on the visiting team.

 

"Offense, defense, pitching, manager, coaches, we all stink," Guillen said.

 

 

 

In addition, Aardsma described his brief outing as "pathetic". No argument there.

[Allsox]

Some of Guillen's remarks post game:

 

"They compete as a team. They get you as a team, and that's why they win," said Guillen, who alternated between blaming himself and criticizing his players throughout his postgame remarks.

 

Guillen has long been impressed by the Twins, who sped by the slumping White Sox last summer on the way to their fourth division title in the last five years. But he pinned most of the afternoon's performance on the visiting team.

 

"Offense, defense, pitching, manager, coaches, we all stink," Guillen said.

In addition, Aardsma described his brief outing as "pathetic". No argument there.

 

Good quotes. But I'm tired of the praising of the Twins. Yeah, they've been in the playoffs 4 outta 5 times but there's no friggin rings to show for it. They depend mostly on the other team beating themselves and it's been proven every postseason they've been in. So let's stop the ass-kissing of the "mighty" Twins and start kicking their ass for once.

[Flash Tizzle]

Some of Guillen's remarks post game:

 

"They compete as a team. They get you as a team, and that's why they win," said Guillen, who alternated between blaming himself and criticizing his players throughout his postgame remarks.

 

Guillen has long been impressed by the Twins, who sped by the slumping White Sox last summer on the way to their fourth division title in the last five years. But he pinned most of the afternoon's performance on the visiting team.

 

"Offense, defense, pitching, manager, coaches, we all stink," Guillen said.

In addition, Aardsma described his brief outing as "pathetic". No argument there.

In the AL Central catch everything thread, benchwarmerJim posted an extended article in which Guillen further discussed his frustrations. In particular, the quote about blaming different divisions of the team cited Kenny Williams. Whatever publication you used conveniently left that out.

 

I honestly don't care how much he calls out the team if he refrains from citing individuals on the team. It was "embarrassing" (as he said in the other article), and many people need to held accountable. No sugercoating needed.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[fathom]

There's some other quotes by Ozzie where he's asking if this team would play better if he's not the manager, etc. What a tired routine.