I can't blame Ozzie anymore....this is ALL on Kenny

[southsideirish71]

Yep, Kenny must be drugging his Cheerios every morning. And Cotts did a lot this season to show that Kenny made the wrong decision in the Aardsma trade. :oldrolleyes

 

When will Soxtalk ever put blame on the players for not performing? My guess is never.

 

Because its often that an offense that scores 520 runs in the first half of last year, just goes in the toliet as a group. Not one or two players, the entire f***ing team. When its part of the team, sure blame the players. When every single f***ing guy that comes up to the bat has the same exact blueprint problem then guess what, its not just the players. AJ used to be a line drive hitter, now he thinks he is Thome.

[WCSox]

When the players are not performing for a period of 9 weeks, it's because they aren't very good. When the players are not very good it's on the guy that brought them here, the GM.

 

So you're saying that Konerko, Dye, and Crede aren't very good? That's a winning argument if I've ever heard one.

 

When will the Soxtalk merryman every realize this and put blame on KW? My guess is never.

 

This may come as a surprise to you, but in the real world, people need to take responsiblity for their own lack of execution. If I don't pay attention to what I'm doing at work and don't produce, it's not my boss' fault. It's my fault for having my head up my ass. Similarly, it wasn't Kenny's fault when Paulie and JD hit near the Mendoza Line for the first month and a half of the season.

 

Because its often that an offense that scores 520 runs in the first half of last year, just goes in the toliet as a group. Not one or two players, the entire f***ing team. When its part of the team, sure blame the players. When every single f***ing guy that comes up to the bat has the same exact blueprint problem then guess what, its not just the players. AJ used to be a line drive hitter, now he thinks he is Thome.

 

So then it's Greg Walker's fault? I can see that. Then again, experienced veterans like Dye and Paulie should be able to hit .250 with a freaking tax attorney posing as their hitting coach.

Edited June 2, 2007 by WCSox

[maggsmaggs]

Yep, Kenny must be drugging his Cheerios every morning. And Cotts did a lot this season to show that Kenny made the wrong decision in the Aardsma trade. :oldrolleyes

 

When will Soxtalk ever put blame on the players for not performing? My guess is never.

We all blame Vazquez for sucking when he does, same with the entire team. People around year blame everybody equally IMO. It is KW's fault for building a s***ty team, OG doesn't manage the s*** players he has well and they are s*** players because they just suck and are old. When a team struggles, its everybody's fault, but since you can't get rid of every player, it seems like the blame is directed at the men in charge, KW and Oz.

[whitesoxfan101]

So you're saying that Konerko, Dye, and Crede aren't very good? That's a winning argument if I've ever heard one.

This may come as a surprise to you, but in the real world, people need to take responsiblity for their own lack of execution. If I don't pay attention to what I'm doing at work and don't produce, it's not my boss' fault. It's my fault for having my head up my ass. Similarly, it wasn't Kenny's fault when Paulie and JD hit near the Mendoza Line for the first month and a half of the season.

So then it's Greg Walker's fault? I can see that. Then again, experienced veterans like Dye and Paulie should be able to hit .250 with a freaking tax attorney posing as their hitting coach.

 

lmao. And yes, I'm saying Dye is old and Crede isn't having a fluke career year at the dish like last year. I'm not sure what is up with Konerko, but that's 1 guy. I'm glad Greg Walker and Kenny Williams PR director posts here though. If we lose 100 games someday, should those 2 still have a job? It's not their fault after all, it's on the players for losing the games. And the comparison between your job and major league baseball, BRILLIANT. Hell there is no difference between the office you work in and the Chicago White Sox.

Edited June 2, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[BearSox]

KW, bringing back good old memories of why he sucked...

[whitesoxfan101]

KW, bringing back good old memories of why he sucked...

 

2005 really was a fluke wasn't it? I never wanted to call it that, but it's the truth.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

2005 really was a fluke wasn't it? I never wanted to call it that, but it's the truth.

 

Yep.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yep.

 

Ahh it doesn't change how great 2005 was. I just remember why I hated Kenny from 2001-2004 now, because he sucks.

[BearSox]

2005 really was a fluke wasn't it? I never wanted to call it that, but it's the truth.

I agree... Looks like in 05 everything fell right in place for KW. I hate to say it to... but no doubt, that was a special team.

 

If KW had it his way, Kendell would be our catcher, Ekstein would be our SS, and Russ Ortiz would be our "ace."

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Ahh it doesn't change how great 2005 was. I just remember why I hated Kenny from 2001-2004 now, because he sucks.

 

Whenever fans of other teams would say the 2005 team was a fluke I defended them. Nothing to say anymore.

[whitesoxfan101]

I agree... Looks like in 05 everything fell right in place for KW. I hate to say it to... but no doubt, that was a special team.

 

If KW had it his way, Kendell would be our catcher, Ekstein would be our SS, and Russ Ortiz would be our "ace."

 

And we'd have had Erstad for years as Garland lit it up in Anaheim.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

And we'd have had Erstad for years as Garland lit it up in Anaheim.

 

I like to refer to the saying "sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make."

 

I wanna say that deal was done and the Angels ownership nixed it.

[WCSox]

lmao. And yes, I'm saying Dye is old

 

Dye is 31, which isn't very "old" at all, and is coming off of an MVP-caliber season. But I'm sure that his age-induced decline in skills occurred in seven months. Oh, and he was WS MVP, but Kenny still made a bad decision by bringing him here, right? Sounds like you need to do some research.

 

and Crede isn't having a fluke career year at the dish like last year.

 

If last year was a "fluke", what was August-October of '05?

 

I'm not sure what is up with Konerko, but that's 1 guy.

 

LOL, one guy? What the F are you talking about? There's ONE starter on the roster that's hitting .250 right now... and he's also the only one with an OBP of .330 or higher (and, ironically, he's even older than Dye!). But he missed a bunch of games with an injury and that's all Kenny's fault as well, huh? And I'm sure that Kenny could've predicted MacDougal's ERA going from 1.55 to 6.75, so he's a moron for keeping him on the roster as well, right? And that Kenny sure was an idiot for trading Cotts (who couldn't even make it in the freaking Cubs bullpen) for Aardsma, right? I'm sure that Cotts would be kicking some serious ass if he were on the South Side right now. Stupid Kenny!

 

I'm glad Greg Walker and Kenny Williams PR director posts here though. If we lose 100 games someday, should those 2 still have a job? It's not their fault after all, it's on the players for losing the games. And the comparison between your job and major league baseball, BRILLIANT. Hell there is no difference between the office you work in and the Chicago White Sox.

 

Your posts have become even more irrational over the past year, which is quite an accomplishment. I thought that college was supposed to have the opposite effect.

[Wedge]

Ozzie apparently hinted at some changes that will happen on Monday

[BearSox]

Ozzie apparently hinted at some changes that will happen on Monday

Like what? A new GM, coaching staff (manager included), and a new scouting system (that would have a s*** load of work to do in one week)?...

 

One can only hope...

[whitesoxfan101]

Dye is 31, which isn't very "old" at all, and is coming off of an MVP-caliber season. But I'm sure that his age-induced decline in skills occurred in seven months. Oh, and he was WS MVP, but Kenny still made a bad decision by bringing him here, right? Sounds like you need to do some research.

If last year was a "fluke", what was August-October of '05?

LOL, one guy? What the F are you talking about? There's ONE starter on the roster that's hitting .250 right now... and he's also the only one with an OBP of .330 or higher (and, ironically, he's even older than Dye!). But he missed a bunch of games with an injury and that's all Kenny's fault as well, huh? And I'm sure that Kenny could've predicted MacDougal's ERA going from 1.55 to 6.75, so he's a moron for keeping him on the roster as well, right? And that Kenny sure was an idiot for trading Cotts (who couldn't even make it in the freaking Cubs bullpen) for Aardsma, right? I'm sure that Cotts would be kicking some serious ass if he were on the South Side right now. Stupid Kenny!

Your posts have become even more irrational over the past year, which is quite an accomplishment. I thought that college was supposed to have the opposite effect.

 

Cotts for Aardsma was pointless, if you want to argue otherwise, that's your problem. Last year for Crede at the plate was a fluke, if you want to argue otherwise, again that's your problem. Same with Dye and his career year last year.

 

I guess Crede was awesome though in August and September of 2005 at the plate, as you said though right? He entered August with a .256 average with 47 RBI (12 a month) and finished it at .252 with 62 RBI, or in other words, he actually declined a bit those 2 months to finish 2005 with a gaudy .252/.303/.454/.756. At least he got hot in the playoffs though, not like anybody else on our team did that 11-1 spurt.

 

Also, my apologies, I guess i'm the only one that could see that MacDougal has a long track record of walking a ton of batters and getting hurt. Whose fault is it this team sucks though? Who put together this atrocious cast of characters? Who has led us to soon to be 6 October vacations in 7 years with his personnel? It's the players fault though right? If only I didn't go to college, I'd see that.

Edited June 2, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[LVSoxFan]

I don't think anybody can claim with a straight face that, post-2005, we were all clamoring to get rid of Konerko, Dye, Crede, Uribe and/or Iguchi.

 

The only one I remember everybody being down on heavily last year was, rightfully so, Pods. I was one of them. I was like: get rid of that motherf******--but thanks again for 2005, Scotty.

 

Nobody could have anticipated last year's almost-MVP (Dye) being this bad for so long first half, or Crede (after finally breaking out in 2005) back to his 2004 ways, or Paulie back to his... what? 2003 form?

 

So for that reason, I'm hardly going to take aim at KW for keeping those guys on. The bullpen, though? Yep, that was pretty much his creation, and if you were going to trade away a top starter (Freddy) and a top starting prospect (B-Mac)... it appears what he got for those trades went bust. Boom goes the dynamite, as somebody put it in another thread referring to something else.

 

Let me throw something out there: KW hasn't made a decent trade post-2005. Think about it. What was the big trade post-2005? He got rid of A-Row to get Thome. Was that worth it? Think about it. That meant:

 

a) You just took out a fan favorite and a proven team cheerleader, Aaron Rowand

B) You did this immediately after winning the World Series with this squad--what happened to: if it ain't broke?

c) Thome was fun for homers the first half of 2006 but quickly faded; he's been a non-factor this year as well, and he doesn't bunt or play smallball

d) Brian Anderson was a bust and created a 9-hole

 

Was that worth it? Don't get me wrong I love Thome and he's a class act and a gentleman, but were we really that better off with him and then BA in center than with keeping the 2005 team more or less intact?

 

This year we kept Jenks (of course) and Thornton (despite his shaky year, I'm all for him) but unloaded B-Mac and Freddy for a crew of flamethrowers almost all if not all who have proven to be a bust.

 

The only other potential culprit that nobody mentions is--gasp--Don Cooper. Although, like Ozzie, Don can only work with what KW provides him. Proven talents and even underrated ones like our starters seem to do fine with him (including Danks) so it's a mystery why the bullpen can't seem to get "fixed" by him. Unless they're unfixable.

 

I'm not sure what the solution is here because I can't remember a year where the bullpen was this atrocious but at the same time we've got our overwhelming offensive woes. I don't know how you "fix" a bullpen at the beginning of June when you've already sent a bunch of guys down.

 

As for Walker I can't think of any more excuses to make for him. Unless you want to try something weird for the team like sports psychologists, I would imagine somebody's gotta get fired soon. Hell at this rate KC could overtake us.

[greg775]

Great post. There is nothing Ozzie can do.

If the White Sox organization wants to fire the only manager in about 9 decades to lead

a Chicago baseball team to a world title, go ahead and be the laughingstock of baseball.

Talent plus chemistry plus some luck in one run games equals success.

The Sox do not have the talent to compete.

My gawd. Our outfield is a total joke.

Our bullpen may be the worst in baseball except for Jenks.

And our sluggers are having the opposite of what would be called career years.

Great post. It is mostly on Kenny. I wouldn't fire him either, though, personally, I'd just

try to regroup and hope we catch onto something in the future.

 

Go ahead and fire Ozzie if it makes you feel better. It will not matter just as Piniella is

not mattering for the Flubs.

Edited June 2, 2007 by greg775

[whitesoxfan101]

I wanna say that deal was done and the Angels ownership nixed it.

 

You would be correct. We wanted to get the grinder since we could then sign Matt Clement because he is better than Garland.

 

Great post. There is nothing Ozzie can do.

If the White Sox organization wants to fire the only manager in about 9 decades to lead

a Chicago baseball team to a world title, go ahead and be the laughingstock of baseball.

Talent plus chemistry plus some luck in one run games equals success.

The Sox do not have the talent to compete.

My gawd. Our outfield is a total joke.

Our bullpen may be the worst in baseball except for Jenks.

And our sluggers are having the opposite of what would be called career years.

Great post. It is mostly on Kenny. I wouldn't fire him either, though, personally, I'd just

try to regroup and hope we catch onto something in the future.

 

Go ahead and fire Ozzie if it makes you feel better. It will not matter just as Piniella is

not mattering for the Flubs.

 

Well Ozzie's days are running out either way. Either KW will fire him to cover his own ass, or the new GM will get a manager he likes. This is still on Kenny though, when your team misses the playoffs by only a few games like last year, you can look at the manager....but when you just plain suck ass, it's the bad players that the GM brought in causing it.

Edited June 2, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[CWSGuy406]

Also, my apologies, I guess i'm the only one that could see that MacDougal has a long track record of walking a ton of batters and getting hurt.

 

So you foresaw MacDougal -- a career 3.87 ERA pitcher -- having an ERA over sixseven with nearly a walk per inning?

 

You really do know your s***. You definitely need to be working for the Sox. I can't wait to see Chris Getz starting at second in 2008! Woo-hoo!

Edited June 2, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[santo=dorf]

Some of you guys are complete f***ing morons.

 

The Sox were the best team BAR NONE in 2005. They have always been a competitive team since 1990, and the team has never finished below .500 with KW as GM.

 

Ortiz signed as a free agent in 2005, so the Sox would not have had him during that season because Kenny was after him in 2002 and 2004.

 

There is little evidence, if any, that the Sox were close to acquiring Jason Kendall like they were to Erstad. I also find it hypocritical to bring up his name when people were clamoring for him in 2004 and before 2005 and when Beane's rear was kissed because he "only" gave up Redman and Rhodes.

 

Give it a rest. Even as loyal as JR is to his employees, he's not going to dump a GM who is showing the most frustration of any coaches or front office and knows when to make a move. I also doubt ANY team would dump their GM if the team was .500 a week before the minor league draft.

 

Compare the current reactions to the team's play so far:

Baines: Nothing.

Walker: "You know we'll hit sooner or later. Just look at the back of these guys' baseball cards."

Guillen: "Maybe they should fire me."

KW: "Yes I am frustrated right now. We are underachieving." (told that to Ken Rosenthal.

 

But hey, let's just keep ripping the guy and try to take away his accomplishments because we're all better armchair GM's. Somehow KW looks more foolish for showing interest in Kendall when we had people here hammering out their own trades to get the guy.

[greg775]

It's really the curse of the Royals when you think about it.

Sox brass thought MacDougal and Sisco would be vital cogs in a world championship

bullpen and both really truly are worthless just like the KC franchise.

[Balance]

I'm really f***ing angry. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

 

And I agree!

[whitesoxfan101]

So you foresaw MacDougal -- a career 3.87 ERA pitcher -- having an ERA over sixseven with nearly a walk per inning?

 

You really do know your s***. You definitely need to be working for the Sox. I can't wait to see Chris Getz starting at second in 2008! Woo-hoo!

 

I saw a pretty harsh regresion to the means after last years career year he had, just as the same could have been said for Crede and Dye. And all 3 are happening, albeit they have fallen off more than I thought. And Getz would be in triple a getting ready if he hadn't got hurt, so I apologize for that.

[WCSox]

Well Ozzie's days are running out either way. Either KW will fire him to cover his own ass, or the new GM will get a manager he likes.

 

My God, your posts are awful. Let's look at this comparison....

 

Jerry Manuel: 500-471 (.515) record with Sox, one 90-win season, and an 0-3 playoff record. He managed the Sox for SIX YEARS.

 

Ozzie after 3.3 years as Sox manager: 297-239 (.554) record with Sox, two 90-win seasons, 11-1 playoff record, one AL Pennant, one WS Championship.

 

But Ozzie won't make it through his fourth year because of his team's performance?

 

This is still on Kenny though, when your team misses the playoffs by only a few games like last year, you can look at the manager....but when you just plain suck ass, it's the bad players that the GM brought in causing it.

 

I'll let him say it...

 

Some of you guys are complete f***ing morons.

 

 

 

I saw a pretty harsh regresion to the means after last years career year he had, just as the same could have been said for Crede and Dye. And all 3 are happening, albeit they have fallen off more than I thought.

 

And I'm sure that you predicted all of this back in December and would've traded all three. I'm really glad that you're not sitting in KW's chair.