AND THAT'S A WHITE SOX WINNER!!!

[Chisoxfn]

Agreed. I think it may be time to start thinking of extending him again rather than even messing with Buehrle.

I still think Garland and Buehrle are two guys you continue to build around and extend, stick with Vazquez another two years and move Contreras in the off-season with Danks hopefully ready to be the #4 next year and Gio or someone else entering as the #5. Than when Vazquez is ready to be dealt, you hope another guy is ready to earn a spot in the rotation.

[iamshack]

I still think Garland and Buehrle are two guys you continue to build around and extend, stick with Vazquez another two years and move Contreras in the off-season with Danks hopefully ready to be the #4 next year and Gio or someone else entering as the #5. Than when Vazquez is ready to be dealt, you hope another guy is ready to earn a spot in the rotation.

 

I disagree in regards to Buehrle. I just think the similarities to Zito have priced him out of what is reasonable and acceptable to pay a starting pitcher (at least one not named Johan). But Garland you might be able to get to before he gets to the crazy numbers like that. If I were Kenny, I would seriously consider approaching him with a 3/36 or maybe even a 3/39 which goes into effect in the 09' season (if that is allowed under CB rules? If not, which wipes out his third year next year of his current deal).

[witesoxfan]

I disagree in regards to Buehrle. I just think the similarities to Zito have priced him out of what is reasonable and acceptable to pay a starting pitcher (at least one not named Johan). But Garland you might be able to get to before he gets to the crazy numbers like that. If I were Kenny, I would seriously consider approaching him with a 3/36 or maybe even a 3/39 which goes into effect in the 09' season (if that is allowed under CB rules? If not, which wipes out his third year next year of his current deal).

 

Buehrle's agent isn't Boras; that means the world in these negotiations. Zito got 7/$126 because of Boras; I think Buehrle will "settle" for somewhere around 5/$80 or 6/$100, and I quite honestly would do either of those in a second because you know Buehrle is going to stay healthy over the course of his career, though he may be inconsistent. And quite frankly, if he has a half a season like he did in 2006 every 3 years, so be it; you deal with a s***ty half of baseball and hope he can be great for the other 9-11 halves.

 

Garland I agree on, but he signed a 3 year extension prior to 2006, and his next contract will be atleast 5 years in length. So, following this season, you try and negotiate that contract. Pretty simple.

[iamshack]

Buehrle's agent isn't Boras; that means the world in these negotiations. Zito got 7/$126 because of Boras; I think Buehrle will "settle" for somewhere around 5/$80 or 6/$100, and I quite honestly would do either of those in a second because you know Buehrle is going to stay healthy over the course of his career, though he may be inconsistent. And quite frankly, if he has a half a season like he did in 2006 every 3 years, so be it; you deal with a s***ty half of baseball and hope he can be great for the other 9-11 halves.

 

Garland I agree on, but he signed a 3 year extension prior to 2006, and his next contract will be atleast 5 years in length. So, following this season, you try and negotiate that contract. Pretty simple.

 

I love durability, but you've got to be stellar year in and year out if you're making 15-18 million a season. Otherwise, I'll take my chances with a kid or a journeyman making peanuts. I love Mark as much as the next guy, but I just don't believe it's a smart financial move to tie up that much of the payroll in one starter unless he's an ace. Mark is a great pitcher, but an ace he probably will never be.

Edited June 5, 2007 by iamshack

[Rowand44]

I love durability, but you've got to be stellar year in and year out if you're making 15-18 million a season. Otherwise, I'll take my chances with a kid or a journeyman making peanuts. I love Mark as much as the next guy, but I just don't believe it's a smart financial move to tie up that much of the payroll in one starter unless he's an ace. Mark is a great pitcher, but an ace he probably will never be.

He's not an ace(please no Kalapse references), but besides last year he's been good every year of his career, he's about as reliable of a starter is you're going to find. I hope the Sox do as much as possible to lock him up.

[Harry Chappas]

The White Sox are still interesting this season why????????? Starting pitchers. What is the $15M they are giving Thome worth? How about the $12M to Konerko? Alex Cintron and Rob Mackowiak are making twice as much as the entire bullpen? Buerhle and Garland are the cornerstones to this franchise and should be treated as such. I don't want journeyman pitchers and washed up relievers while Ichiro is making $13M.

 

I may be the only person that believes this but I feel the hitting was what let the WHite Sox down last year especially in September. A consistent pitcher is worth their weight as hitting is never really consistent due to the failure rate of 60% for the best hitters.

 

If they lose Buerhle and have to rely on Gio or Floyd, it will be a long 2008. Look at the Twins they do have two hitters better then anyone the Sox have but the rest of their line-up is simply solid guys that give good at bats. These are the guys the Sox need to go along with good starting pitchers, not slow, low OBP guys that may homer but more often than homering will strike out or pop out on the infield.

 

KW is trying to model his team after the Braves organization. That is great but the last time I looked Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine were all given huge deals to stick around, and now Hudson was as well.

[southsider2k5]

Its nice to see the Sox actually hang on and win a game that got looking grimm at the end. Its a step in the right direction.

[RME JICO]

Its nice to see the Sox actually hang on and win a game that got looking grimm at the end. Its a step in the right direction.

Yeah it was nice to get the win.

 

I hope we can just win one without it being close at the end. I thought Jon going into the 9th would be enough, then the next thing you know the Yanks score 3 and have the tying run at the plate. Ozzie just needs to bring in Jenks there once Garland left. No need to bridge the gap when you are already in the 9th.

 

I did like the lineup shuffle and it looked like Paulie responded pretty well. Hopefully everyone can get going.

[southsider2k5]

Running with that, Tada's and Pauly's approaches at the plate looked the best they have been in a long time. They were both looking up the middle on the other way, keeping them on the pitch longer.

[WCSox]

Buehrle's agent isn't Boras; that means the world in these negotiations. Zito got 7/$126 because of Boras; I think Buehrle will "settle" for somewhere around 5/$80 or 6/$100, and I quite honestly would do either of those in a second because you know Buehrle is going to stay healthy over the course of his career, though he may be inconsistent. And quite frankly, if he has a half a season like he did in 2006 every 3 years, so be it; you deal with a s***ty half of baseball and hope he can be great for the other 9-11 halves.

 

Garland I agree on, but he signed a 3 year extension prior to 2006, and his next contract will be atleast 5 years in length. So, following this season, you try and negotiate that contract. Pretty simple.

 

When was the last time that JR allowed his GM to sign a pitcher to anything more than a three- or four-year deal? I'd love to see both Mark and Jon ink five-year deals, but history suggests that it's probably not going to happen.

[Balta1701]

When was the last time that JR allowed his GM to sign a pitcher to anything more than a three- or four-year deal? I'd love to see both Mark and Jon ink five-year deals, but history suggests that it's probably not going to happen.

And, perhaps most importantly, history has also shown over and over and over and over again that it's not just a bad idea to give a pitcher a 5+ year deal, it's a horrendous idea.

[RME JICO]

Running with that, Tada's and Pauly's approaches at the plate looked the best they have been in a long time. They were both looking up the middle on the other way, keeping them on the pitch longer.

Yep, that is a very good sign. If they all start taking that approach, this offense is going to heat up quick. Also, Thome hitting the HR off Villone (LHP) was huge, because he normally struggles with that inside fastball.

[BearSox]

When was the last time that JR allowed his GM to sign a pitcher to anything more than a three- or four-year deal? I'd love to see both Mark and Jon ink five-year deals, but history suggests that it's probably not going to happen.

Blame Jamie Navarro for that...

[southsider2k5]

When was the last time that JR allowed his GM to sign a pitcher to anything more than a three- or four-year deal? I'd love to see both Mark and Jon ink five-year deals, but history suggests that it's probably not going to happen.

 

How many pitchers have left the Sox that in retrospect deserved a four or five year deal?

 

Yep, that is a very good sign. If they all start taking that approach, this offense is going to heat up quick. Also, Thome hitting the HR off Villone (LHP) was huge, because he normally struggles with that inside fastball.

 

And even that swing was back through the box, instead of swinging for the foul pole. Hopefully this means that these guys are actually listening to Walker again.

[Rowand44]

How many pitchers have left the Sox that in retrospect deserved a four or five year deal?

Good point. I think if anyone could deserve such a contract it'd be Mark, it'll be interesting to see if they'll go that long with him, my guess is they wont, who knows though.

[southsider2k5]

Good point. I think if anyone could deserve such a contract it'd be Mark, it'll be interesting to see if they'll go that long with him, my guess is they wont, who knows though.

 

Since Jaime Navarro was here the only guy I would have considered anything longer than a 3 year deal for would have been Colon. In retrospect, I would have been really wrong, as he has been hurt a bunch. Buehrle is the only other guy I think deserves that consideration on our squad right now. I might extend to 4 for Garland if the deal was right, but that's it. Mark Buehrle I could see giving a 5 or 6 year deal if the price was right.

[Rowand44]

Since Jaime Navarro was here the only guy I would have considered anything longer than a 3 year deal for would have been Colon. In retrospect, I would have been really wrong, as he has been hurt a bunch. Buehrle is the only other guy I think deserves that consideration on our squad right now. I might extend to 4 for Garland if the deal was right, but that's it. Mark Buehrle I could see giving a 5 or 6 year deal if the price was right.

Completely agree with everything. At the time, I definitely would have went 4 or 5 with Bartolo as well(which thinking back would be incredibly stupid seeing the fantastic shape that the guy is in) but he's really the only guy that popped into my head right away when you asked that question.

 

As for Mark, I'm usually not into trying to sign or re-sign someone for pr(and re-signing Mark is much more about his pitching ability than just making the fans happy), however, Mark means a lot to this organization off the field as well, imo.

[WCSox]

Blame Jamie Navarro for that...

 

Yep, and IIRC, Navarro had a very up-and-down career. He was terrible in his last two years in Milwaukee.

 

How many pitchers have left the Sox that in retrospect deserved a four or five year deal?

 

Blackjack, Alvarez, Fernandez, and Hoyt all fizzled out shortly after leaving the Sox. I can't imagine how financially-screwed the Sox would've been if they'd given somebody like Blackjack a huge, long-term deal.

[BearSox]

Yep, and IIRC, Navarro had a very up-and-down career. He was terrible in his last two years in Milwaukee.

A better way of saying that is that he sucked all his years with the White Sox, he sucked after the White Sox, and in fact, he sucked his whole career.

[Balta1701]

Yep, and IIRC, Navarro had a very up-and-down career. He was terrible in his last two years in Milwaukee.

Blackjack, Alvarez, Fernandez, and Hoyt all fizzled out shortly after leaving the Sox. I can't imagine how financially-screwed the Sox would've been if they'd given somebody like Blackjack a huge, long-term deal.

Here's the even bigger point I'm trying to make.

 

How many people can name a pitcher who received a 5 year + contract who has actually been worth that contract? And how many pitchers can you come up with who haven't been worth those contracts?

 

In my mind at least...it's pretty overwhelmingly one-sided.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

The White Sox are still interesting this season why????????? Starting pitchers. What is the $15M they are giving Thome worth? How about the $12M to Konerko? Alex Cintron and Rob Mackowiak are making twice as much as the entire bullpen? Buerhle and Garland are the cornerstones to this franchise and should be treated as such. I don't want journeyman pitchers and washed up relievers while Ichiro is making $13M.

 

I may be the only person that believes this but I feel the hitting was what let the WHite Sox down last year especially in September. A consistent pitcher is worth their weight as hitting is never really consistent due to the failure rate of 60% for the best hitters.

 

If they lose Buerhle and have to rely on Gio or Floyd, it will be a long 2008. Look at the Twins they do have two hitters better then anyone the Sox have but the rest of their line-up is simply solid guys that give good at bats. These are the guys the Sox need to go along with good starting pitchers, not slow, low OBP guys that may homer but more often than homering will strike out or pop out on the infield.

 

KW is trying to model his team after the Braves organization. That is great but the last time I looked Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine were all given huge deals to stick around, and now Hudson was as well.

Good points.

[WCSox]

Here's the even bigger point I'm trying to make.

 

How many people can name a pitcher who received a 5 year + contract who has actually been worth that contract? And how many pitchers can you come up with who haven't been worth those contracts?

 

In my mind at least...it's pretty overwhelmingly one-sided.

 

Absolutely. I think that Zito has a good chance of being an exception, but I don't expect him to get back to his Cy Young numbers either.

[Balta1701]

Absolutely. I think that Zito has a good chance of being an exception, but I don't expect him to get back to his Cy Young numbers either.

Even if Mr. Zito pitches out the entire duration of his contract, which I dunno...he's certainly not worth $18 mil per year right now, and I find it almost impossible to believe he'll be worth it in the future.

 

Spending big money on long term deals for pitchers hasn't just been risky, it has been suicide.