watchtower41 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) Thats utter bulls***. Maybe we would have maybe we wouldnt. But your basicly going with would the difference between Carlos and Pods offensively outdo the difference between Iguchi and whoever played 2B. Even though 05 was the one season Pods was actually good for us he did miss 30 or so games and if I remember had a less than spectacular 2nd half. Iguchi had an avg. season nothing special, just did good dealing with having Pods running all the time for better or worse ahead of him. Willie Harris probably would have been the starting 2B if not Iguchi and his numbers really arent that much worse and who knows what they would have been like if he was an everyday player. Without doubt less HR's but possibly more SB's, and similar OBP. Infact in 04 when Willie had a good amount of ab's and games he put up an identical OBP. Now obviously Iguchi is or I should say was the better 2B in 05 and Carlos was the better LF in 05 offensively, which is the biggest drop-off you got to ask yourself. Iguchi to Willie Harris or Lee to Podsenick. In my opinion its between Clee and Pods, and Clee's numbers prob would have been better if he didnt switch leagues having to face guys he has never seen before on a daily basis. Are you really trying to justify that Willie Harris would have won us a championship starting at 2nd base?? Also I'm not so sure Carlos had better offensive 05 than Pods, who was the All-Star I'll ask?? Pods was the best lead-off hitter in baseball fo rthe better half of that season. Again, there is NO WAY we could have signed AJ, Iguchi or Hermanson (no matter how much of a discount some of them came to us at) without these 3 key ingredients to our banner season, we quite simply would not have had the tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 02:24 PM) Are you really trying to justify that Willie Harris would have won us a championship starting at 2nd base?? Also I'm not so sure Carlos had better offensive 05 than Pods, who was the All-Star I'll ask?? Pods was the best lead-off hitter in baseball fo rthe better half of that season. Again, there is NO WAY we could have signed AJ, Iguchi or Hermanson (no matter how much of a discount some of them came to us at) without these 3 key ingredients to our banner season, we quite simply would not have had the tools. Um yeah, Carlos Lee was a true All-Star that season seeing as how the players and coaches voted him in. Podsednik was voted in after the fact by a fan base that seems to love the "Final Man" ballot. 1st half of 2005: Damon: .343/.386/.473/.859 Podsednik: .294/.369/.344/.713 Brian Roberts: .345/.416/.591/1.007 There are others but 2 should be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 10:30 AM) No wonder players bad mouth the Sox organization when they leave. Even the fans trash the players when they leave. LOL...Seems like this board doesn't wait till after they leave. No matter what they do right or wrong. Edited June 8, 2007 by RibbieRubarb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Carlos Lee brought in Iguchi, Podsednik, Vizcaino, Hernandez, and Hermanson. I am sure as hell we wouldn't have won it in 05 if we did keep Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchtower41 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 02:40 PM) Um yeah, Carlos Lee was a true All-Star that season seeing as how the players and coaches voted him in. Podsednik was voted in after the fact by a fan base that seems to love the "Final Man" ballot. 1st half of 2005: Damon: .343/.386/.473/.859 Podsednik: .294/.369/.344/.713 Brian Roberts: .345/.416/.591/1.007 There are others but 2 should be enough. Hey, every team needs an All-Star. I'm guessing Sheets was on the DL again that year? Either that or they couldnt justify Geoff Jenkins getting selected, though he had a much better year than Lee with his robust .265 average (which was even worse in the first half), I guess everybody loves the new guy. Where are the steals and runs scored in your lead-off figures?? Look, I know its trendy to hate Pods around here...but he was getting MVP talk early in 2005 and justifiably so. What's done and done.... easy to say you'd rahter have Carlos Lee on the team right now with the way were hitting. Even if Lee's glove makes Jacque Jones' look golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I wouldn't do s***. I'd just sit there and watch him take his hacks like every other player on the opposing team. Carlos put up some good numbers for the White Sox, sure, but far from great as some people here claim. Not only that, he was a lousy left fielder, refused to shift in different situations and was never really a selfless guy. It was always about the numbers with Carlos. I'd love to have him today because he's a better player now than he was before, but I sure as hell don't miss him or his attitude. The guy doesn't deserve a breath of our attention. What did he ever do? Win an MVP? Win a World Series? Win a playoff game? This isn't Frank Thomas we're talking about. He was never the face of our franchise and he was never the best offensive player on the team. It's Carlos f***ing Lee we're talking about. No big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan3530 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 i will be there giving c-lee a standing ovation of my one. He deserves it for what he did in a sox uniform. If people boo him they are just mad he isn't on the south side any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 03:43 AM) He should get a standing ovation. Who knows though, maybe some of the "new" Sox fans will boo. Blech. I never could stand the guy... but oh well. QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 08:38 PM) I wouldn't do s***. I'd just sit there and watch him take his hacks like every other player on the opposing team. Carlos put up some good numbers for the White Sox, sure, but far from great as some people here claim. Not only that, he was a lousy left fielder, refused to shift in different situations and was never really a selfless guy. It was always about the numbers with Carlos. I'd love to have him today because he's a better player now than he was before, but I sure as hell don't miss him or his attitude. The guy doesn't deserve a breath of our attention. What did he ever do? Win an MVP? Win a World Series? Win a playoff game? This isn't Frank Thomas we're talking about. He was never the face of our franchise and he was never the best offensive player on the team. It's Carlos f***ing Lee we're talking about. No big deal. YEA! Right on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 12:40 PM) Um yeah, Carlos Lee was a true All-Star that season seeing as how the players and coaches voted him in. Podsednik was voted in after the fact by a fan base that seems to love the "Final Man" ballot. 1st half of 2005: Damon: .343/.386/.473/.859 Podsednik: .294/.369/.344/.713 Brian Roberts: .345/.416/.591/1.007 There are others but 2 should be enough. I love cherry picking stats. You'll note how you didn't post Podsednik's dominant pre-05 injury SB numbers (remember that 22 straight streak he had right before the break? Anyone else remember how he almost single handedly broke Cleveland's back on the basepaths right after the break?) And on the other side, Lee was, IIRC, leading the NL in RBI's for much of the first half of 05. Both teams got what they needed out of that deal, I think both of those guys deserved to be all-stars, and let's just leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 05:25 PM) I love cherry picking stats. You'll note how you didn't post Podsednik's dominant pre-05 injury SB numbers (remember that 22 straight streak he had right before the break? Anyone else remember how he almost single handedly broke Cleveland's back on the basepaths right after the break?) And on the other side, Lee was, IIRC, leading the NL in RBI's for much of the first half of 05. Both teams got what they needed out of that deal, I think both of those guys deserved to be all-stars, and let's just leave it at that. And Damon's 130 point higher SLG makes up for any difference in SB not to mention the 17 points in OBP. If I really wanted to cherry pick I would have brought SO into the equation or even better yet strikeouts looking. At any rate Brian Roberts' 1.000 OPS kicks the s*** out of anything Pods did in the 1st half and those are only the first 2 guys that came to mind, there's probably more. To say Podsednik was the best leadoff man in baseball during the first half of '05 is flat out false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) To say Podsednik was the best leadoff man in baseball during the first half of '05 is flat out false. Well, I won't say Podsednik was the best lead off man that first half. I will say, though, that Podsednik brought more to that group of players than Damon would've. While Damon is the better player in pretty much every phase of the game (especially now), Podsednik played the roll of God for the White Sox pre-All-Star break '05. I think it's hard to argue how much of a plus he was on the team. That said, I think that merited a trip to the "display"--even if it was just to sit on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Ah, good old Carlos Lee. Thanks for helping us out over the weekend and enjoy the $100 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Watching that last game reminded me exactly why I do not miss him on the team. He was always making mistakes like that, and driving me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats utter bulls***. Maybe we would have maybe we wouldnt. But your basicly going with would the difference between Carlos and Pods offensively outdo the difference between Iguchi and whoever played 2B. Even though 05 was the one season Pods was actually good for us he did miss 30 or so games and if I remember had a less than spectacular 2nd half. Iguchi had an avg. season nothing special, just did good dealing with having Pods running all the time for better or worse ahead of him. Willie Harris probably would have been the starting 2B if not Iguchi and his numbers really arent that much worse and who knows what they would have been like if he was an everyday player. Without doubt less HR's but possibly more SB's, and similar OBP. Infact in 04 when Willie had a good amount of ab's and games he put up an identical OBP. Funny, because FOX showed a graphic shows Iguchi's ranks in several offensive categories amongst second baseman (can't recall if it was AL or MLB) since 2005 and Iguchi was first or second in all of them. considering Iguchi pretty much had the same numbers in 2006 I think it's pretty damn silly to say his year was "nothing special." In fact I'd say it's utter bulls*** to say his season was nothing special considering the inconsistent crap the Sox went through the two previous seasons. Willie Harris is not an everday player. In 2004 he had 409 At-bats, which is still not an everday player, and he had one great month to live off of. May 2004: .384/.439/.438 OBP's the other months: .299, .316, .333, .347, .291 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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