Hey Ozzie....

[fathom]

Guillen feeling "embarrassed" and not himself. Doesn't like coming to the ballpark everyday, watching this ballclub, then having to talk about it afterwards to the media.

 

I don't how he's going to last through the season, to be honest.

 

When's the last time he was around a losing team? From what I can recall, every team he's been associated with in his coaching career has been a division contender.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Why do you say that?

I don't know anything about him, except that W/L wise, the Marlins did a lot better than most expected.

 

Just wondering what his story is.

 

Josh Johnson threw 80 pitches, Girardi sent him back out there after a two hour delay, he hasn't pitched since. A lot of their other pitchers have been hurt as well.

[witesoxfan]

Just as 2005 was largely due to KW, but wouldn't have occurred without Ozzie, 2007 is bad largely due to KW, but I think they'd be better without Ozzie.

 

i fooked it up, seeing as how it said 2005 wouldnt have occurred with Ozzie; that would be called a lie

Edited June 9, 2007 by witesoxfan

[whitesoxfan101]

Why do you say that?

I don't know anything about him, except that W/L wise, the Marlins did a lot better than most expected.

 

Just wondering what his story is.

 

That Marlins team had enough talent to make the playoffs, and started 13-33 before they began to overcome their manager. The only reason Florida isn't in the midst of the NL East* race right now is that literally half of their pitchers are having significant arm troubles and on the DL because of Girardi's workloads last year.

 

Girardi called an NL East rival pitcher named Jon Lieber in early August to suggest a change in his mechanics, and Lieber was lights out after that, including helping to beat Florida twice in September, vaulting Philly ahead of them in the standings. He also bunted more than any manager in the game, deciding the 27 outs aren't really that precious, fought with his players, yelled at his owner to shut up during games, and wanted to do the following before the season in 2006:

 

Move Dan Uggla to LF, Hanley Ramirez to CF, cut Josh Willingham, move Miguel Cabrera to RF, Alfredo Amezega to everday SS, and Dontrelle Willis to the bullpen.

 

I could continue, but I think that's enough on the Girardi subject to prove my point.

 

Just as 2005 was largely due to KW, but wouldn't have occurred with Ozzie, 2007 is bad largely due to KW, but I think they'd be better without Ozzie.

 

I would have to say this is accurate. 2006 was bad largely due to Ozzie though, but we'd have been better without....well I can't think of anybody else to blame for 2006 but OG. He was that bad.

Edited June 9, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

When's the last time he was around a losing team? From what I can recall, every team he's been associated with in his coaching career has been a division contender.

 

Montreal, and his first year or two in Florida.

[whitesoxfan101]

You should have seen enough of my posts to know that I thought KW did an absolutely horrible job this past offseason. I just want to see Ozzie try different things. He refused to make changes last year when Pods was brutal and Mackowiak was losing games in CF. What does Ozzie have to lose right now? Let Mackowiak lead off. Let Iguchi lead off. Hell, really shake it up and let Thome lead off....he's our best OBP guy and it's not like he has men on base much of the time anyways.

 

Fair enough. My point is that I can't get mad on him because his GM gave him no chance, and unlike in 2006 when they would have got us to October IMO, changes in 2007 would make no difference. We are a 4th place team and will finish as such no matter what.

[Gregory Pratt]

This is a stupid thread. We're blaming Ozzie for the bad roster? "Just go out and get the team to play with energy!" What, should he get them amphetamines?

[Heads22]

This is a stupid thread. We're blaming Ozzie for the bad roster? "Just go out and get the team to play with energy!" What, should he get them amphetamines?

 

No, you should.

[Gregory Pratt]

I've wondered if the sluggishness of our team might be related to the ban of amphetamines but I doubt it.

 

Still, it's interesting

[Heads22]

I've wondered if the sluggishness of our team might be related to the ban of amphetamines but I doubt it.

 

Still, it's interesting

 

Or the fact that they were already really slow to begin with.

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm not necessarily talking about making them faster. I don't think anything can help our 3-6 there, 3-7 with Crede.

 

There are so many questions regarding this team. Why have they just fallen apart offensively since last year getting worse every month?

[joejoesox]

I'm not necessarily talking about making them faster. I don't think anything can help our 3-6 there, 3-7 with Crede.

 

There are so many questions regarding this team. Why have they just fallen apart offensively since last year getting worse every month?

 

flipped off the swirling lights above the scoreboard

 

just kidding

[southsideirish71]

Here comes the articles

[fathom]

This is a stupid thread. We're blaming Ozzie for the bad roster? "Just go out and get the team to play with energy!" What, should he get them amphetamines?

 

Why do so many people believe that the manager has no say about the roster?

[Gregory Pratt]

Hey Fathom,

 

Please stop trying to manufacture some outrage over Ozzie Guillen in an effort to get him fired.

 

Sincerely,

 

Gregory Pratt

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's time for Ozzie to step up and get this team going on the right track. He needs to stop feeling sorry for himself and talking a big game in the media. It's time for him to prove he can make a lineup without having some mediocre slap hitter at the top of the order. It's time for him to shake things up, even if that means drastic things like putting Owens or Mackowiak between Konerko and AJP to break up the automatic double play situation that those guys get themselves into. Basically, it's time for Ozzie to prove that he hasn't lost this team, and that he's the right man to stop this almost year long slump this team has been in. Please stop making comments about if you should be fired or not or what's going to happen in your career. Just go out and get this team to play with energy and confidence.

 

Or maybe it's time for you to realize you have a silly blind hatred for Ozzie that makes you very annoying sometimes? I mean really, what the heck is Ozzie supposed to do when the ENTIRE offense can't hit for this damn long? .232 as a team? Is Ozzie supposed to make established vets like Konerko/Dye/AJ/Crede hit? Is it Ozzie's fault that Iguchi was hitting .221 just a week ago? Uribe? Mackowiak? Cintron? Ozzie's fault, too? What's he supposed to "prove"? Make this team play with energy and confidence? So you know for a fact he's not doing that? I'm not saying Ozzie has been perfect this year. No manager in baseball has been. But it's mostly, and I know this is a concept that's hard for you to grasp, on the players.

[fathom]

Hey Fathom,

 

Please stop trying to manufacture some outrage over Ozzie Guillen in an effort to get him fired.

 

Sincerely,

 

Gregory Pratt

 

Where did I say I'm trying to get him fired? I know that nothing I type is going to have any impact on that type of decision either. All I was saying with my initial post is that it's time for Ozzie to right the ship. Things have been going downhill for far too long. I just want to see a better effort from basically every single member of this organization (besides Jenks right now), and Ozzie's at the top of the underachieving list.

 

Or maybe it's time for you to realize you have a silly blind hatred for Ozzie that makes you very annoying sometimes? I mean really, what the heck is Ozzie supposed to do when the ENTIRE offense can't hit for this damn long? .232 as a team? Is Ozzie supposed to make established vets like Konerko/Dye/AJ/Crede hit? Is it Ozzie's fault that Iguchi was hitting .221 just a week ago? Uribe? Mackowiak? Cintron? Ozzie's fault, too? What's he supposed to "prove"? Make this team play with energy and confidence? So you know for a fact he's not doing that? I'm not saying Ozzie has been perfect this year. No manager in baseball has been. But it's mostly, and I know this is a concept that's hard for you to grasp, on the players.

 

I guess I just won't read Ozzie's quotes about how he feels the guys aren't having enough fun. It's real funny too, because I thought my first post in this thread was as even-tempered as I could write about him right now.

 

So are we saying that if the Sox go 68-94 this year, it has nothing to do with Ozzie? Just how bad does this team have to play in order for him to get even the slightest bit of criticism?

[Gregory Pratt]

Where did I say I'm trying to get him fired? I know that nothing I type is going to have any impact on that type of decision either. All I was saying with my initial post is that it's time for Ozzie to right the ship. Things have been going downhill for far too long. I just want to see a better effort from basically every single member of this organization (besides Jenks right now), and Ozzie's at the top of the underachieving list.

 

I half-believe that you make these posts in an effort to get momentum on your side with regard to "Ozzie sucks!"

 

But more seriously, I don't know what the hell you expect Ozzie to do. He's criticized directly and with subtlety; he's promoted and demoted; he's changed the lineup around. As he said today (or yesterday), "It's June, and nobody wants to trade."

 

You're delusional if you think there's much he can do right now.

[SnB]

I'm not a big ozzie fan, but I can't put alot of blame on him at this time. With the players he has to work with, he can't do a whole lot. I'm not seeing a whole lot of better options on the bench or in charlotte.

 

The only thing I would do would be have sweeney/anderson platoon the outfield instead of having mack play everyday.

[Gregory Pratt]

PS: haven't you said he's done a good job managing this year?

 

s***, the last several games have been close until relievers came in and gave up ten runs. You can't blame Ozzie for that.

[fathom]

I half-believe that you make these posts in an effort to get momentum on your side with regard to "Ozzie sucks!"

 

 

No, I know that there's some people on here that hate him no matter what, some people that would never dare criticize him....and some people that just like to bash Greg Walker or our minor league system.

[BabyJesus69]

Ozzie had a lot to do with who's on this roster also though. He's the one who needs his "speed" guy at the top of the order. He's the one who didn't want to give Anderson an extended shot this year. He's the one that never gave Gload the chance to see what he could do as a leadoff hitter. In no way am I blaming Ozzie for how bad this talent level is....but he isn't exactly out of the loop on these decisions.

 

give ross gload a chance to leadoff? that's brilliant....

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ozzie had a lot to do with who's on this roster also though. He's the one who needs his "speed" guy at the top of the order. He's the one who didn't want to give Anderson an extended shot this year. He's the one that never gave Gload the chance to see what he could do as a leadoff hitter. In no way am I blaming Ozzie for how bad this talent level is....but he isn't exactly out of the loop on these decisions.

 

I like Anderson as much as anybody. But the guy is seriously lacking in certain areas. He's got a terrible swing and seems incapable of making any sort of adjustment. He's hitting .256 in AAA right now. Not exactly inspiring. Gload as our leadoff man? I guess that .317 OBP would look oh so sexy right now.

[fathom]

PS: haven't you said he's done a good job managing this year?

 

s***, the last several games have been close until relievers came in and gave up ten runs. You can't blame Ozzie for that.

 

No, I said he wasn't bad at the beginning. However, every single move he's made lately seems to go wrong. Now, I know that's 99 pct on the players....but he's going to get some blame from me for that also. And yes, there's things Ozzie can do to help the relievers. Why bring in Thornton to face Abreu in a huge spot yesterday instead of Logan? Lefties hit over .100 pts higher against Thornton than they do Logan. Why didn't he bring in Logan to face Lind in a huge spot at Toronto last Sunday? Why is he more scared of Matt Stairs than Vernon Wells?

 

Again, I'm not calling for him to be fired. For all the changes he's made to the bullpen, he sure seems to be trying to keep the same formula with our lineup. We have no balance in the lineup, as we have all our slow guys right in a row and our weak hitters in a row also. Why not trying something unconvential like letting Mackowiak bat lead off or 3rd?

 

I like Anderson as much as anybody. But the guy is seriously lacking in certain areas. He's got a terrible swing and seems incapable of making any sort of adjustment. He's hitting .256 in AAA right now. Not exactly inspiring. Gload as our leadoff man? I guess that .317 OBP would look oh so sexy right now.

 

Last year for Gload....you know that's what I meant. Pods was just killing this team's offense for a few months after the all-star break, but we kept trotting him out to the leadoff spot before a terrific 3/4/5.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I guess I just won't read Ozzie's quotes about how he feels the guys aren't having enough fun. It's real funny too, because I thought my first post in this thread was as even-tempered as I could write about him right now.

 

So are we saying that if the Sox go 68-94 this year, it has nothing to do with Ozzie? Just how bad does this team have to play in order for him to get even the slightest bit of criticism?

 

I blame Ozzie a lot more for what happened last year than I do this year. NOBODY could've predicted the ENTIRE offense would be this bad for over 2 months. Show me a manager that could win with a team hitting .232 in our division.