A flashback to a skinnier Goracle

[kapkomet]

This is where you and I differ. I think Bush knows we have to stay in Iraq right now, and so do the Democrats... but the Democrats want to publicize this as "BUSH'S WAR" when in fact this is "AMERICA'S WAR", like it or not. Balta refuted me when I said that, but I stick to my guns here, because without the help of Clinton, Edwards, et. al., Bush would have had to go it "alone". But they gave him the permission to go in.

 

Now as I've hinted at time and time again, war isn't pretty, and it shouldn't be politicized. Armies are made to blow s*** up, and get the hell out of dodge after areas are in control. They need to start blowing s*** up and taking control... but no one has the stomach for it, because it's too messy. So now, we get into this political flip flopping and a mess.

 

We're there, they need to finish business, and allow the locals to stay in control. (I know, I know, I'll get the argument that it's impossible next).

 

Really? It worked in Japan, and that society wasn't exactly Europe after WWII.

 

(I know, I know, it's not present day Iraq either).

 

The point is, there's a counterargument to everything... and it always has come down to "it's BUSH'S WAR"... when it's really more complex then that.

[Balta1701]

This is where you and I differ. I think Bush knows we have to stay in Iraq right now, and so do the Democrats... but the Democrats want to publicize this as "BUSH'S WAR" when in fact this is "AMERICA'S WAR", like it or not. Balta refuted me when I said that, but I stick to my guns here, because without the help of Clinton, Edwards, et. al., Bush would have had to go it "alone". But they gave him the permission to go in.

Here's my counterpoint; if America "loses" the Iraq war, whatever we want to define as losing, will America survive it?

 

If Iraq collapses, and the U.S. army is embarassed, will the U.S. fall apart into civil war? Will we rescind the constitution (well, the remaining parts of it)? Will our economy collapse? Will there be riots in the streets?

 

World War 2, I will obviously grant, was America's war. We lose that war, and we're speaking some combination of German and Japanese. But the United States will not fall even if we pulled every single soldier out of Iraq ASAP. The United States will not fall if everything goes wrong. If we screw up, we may face decades of terrorist activities, but we've probably arranged for that anyway by training these guys for 5 years.

 

If this were America's war, then America itself would be on the line. It is not. The future of certain parts of America, i.e. parts of the defense industry, parts of the energy industry, and the Republican Party, they are certainly at stake. But America will go on, no matter what. And on that, I will stick to my guns.

[kapkomet]

If this were America's war, then America itself would be on the line. It is not. The future of certain parts of America, i.e. parts of the defense industry, parts of the energy industry, and the Republican Party, they are certainly at stake. But America will go on, no matter what. And on that, I will stick to my guns.

Well, we obviously WAY disagree... our very way of life, should the global "islamo-facists" take note of our "defeat", will have to change because they know that they can alter the way we do things by chipping away at our army. On that point, this is definitely America's war.

[KipWellsFan]

Well, we obviously WAY disagree... our very way of life, should the global "islamo-facists" take note of our "defeat", will have to change because they know that they can alter the way we do things by chipping away at our army. On that point, this is definitely America's war.

 

They already knew they could do that with the Russians.

[kapkomet]

They already knew they could do that with the Russians.

So what?

[KipWellsFan]

So what?

 

IE, they beat the Russians this way and they know that they will beat the Americans this way too. It's just a matter of time.