This is why we have an illegal immigration problem.

[EvilMonkey]

Im saying that the jobs that they get and the hours they have to put in to making a living is more work than most people that are citizens of the USA ever have to deal with. And than i made the comment about the message board because everyone who posts on a whitesox site has a computer available to them and internet plus its highly likely have cable tv to watch the games. Than majority of these posters probably like to attend a few games when possible. An illegal immigrant working more hours per week than most of us doesnt have the money to afford all that.

In debt up to my eyeballs and working 60+ hours a week as a small business owner. I work harder than any 2 illegals combined. I enjoy what I have because I KNOW I have earned it.

[Steff]

Nah, you're just spoiled and have stuff handed to you.

 

People do have to work for what they get, by and large. I know I've had to work my ass off for what I have, and I have to work VERY hard to keep it. And, that's not just money, by the way. Life's hard. Get used to it. But if I have to work hard, I might as well enjoy what I do have ... because I've had to work very hard to get it.

 

 

I know it might look that way, but it's far from the truth. I'd like to see some of the little 21 year olds on this board get up at 5:30am, take on 5 hours of school, work 1-6 doing clerical work for FREE at an accounting firm to get interning credit, then proceed to waitress from 7-12 5 days a week (and don't even get me started on the double shifts on the weekends to try to get ahead on student loan payments) and somehow manage to get school work done and maintain a household.

 

In debt up to my eyeballs and working 60+ hours a week as a small business owner. I work harder than any 2 illegals combined. I enjoy what I have because I KNOW I have earned it.

 

A effing men.

[Jenksismyhero]

Count me in the camp that feels no sympathy for illegals. I work 40-45 hours a week at a VERY demanding firm downtown and have law school at night from 6-9pm, five days a week. And when I'm finished, I get to pay off about 130-140k in loans.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Count me in the camp that feels no sympathy for illegals. I work 40-45 hours a week at a VERY demanding firm downtown and have law school at night from 6-9pm, five days a week. And when I'm finished, I get to pay off about 130-140k in loans.

You weren't born in the life of a legal firm, and nobody is forcing you to go law school.

 

These immigrants, like many of our ancestors, were born in s***ty environments and are willing to face criminal charges and go through extreme dangers to come here and work a s***ty job for the rest of their lives. 5 years from now you'll have a smaller debt and a cushy job, and you earned by working hard.

5 years from now an illegal will still work the same level s***ty job (dishwasher, landscaper, painter, etc..) making the same s***ty money, still not receiving medical benefits but the alien will mind his or her own business while Mr. Whitecollar like yourself is trying to push them out of the country thinking it isn't fair that you can get the newest Mercedes because you have too much debt in your house and law school.

Edited June 19, 2007 by santo=dorf

[Steff]

You weren't born in the life of a legal firm, and nobody is forcing you to go law school.

 

These immigrants, like many of our ancestors, were born in s***ty environments and are willing to face criminal charges and go through extreme dangers to come here and work a s***ty job for the rest of their lives. 5 years from now you'll have a smaller debt and a cushy job, and you earned by working hard.

5 years from now an illegal will still work the same level s***ty job (dishwasher, landscaper, painter, etc..) making the same s***ty money, still not receiving medical benefits but the alien will mind his or her own business while Mr. Whitecollar like yourself is trying to push them out of the country thinking it isn't fair that you can get the newest Mercedes because you have too much debt in your house and law school.

 

 

Well.. now I've read it all.

 

Damn you Jenks for wanting a better life, working your ass off for it, and being a wee bit ticked off when someone who didn't work for it get's it for free.

[southsider2k5]

You weren't born in the life of a legal firm, and nobody is forcing you to go law school.

 

Well if you want to be technical, no one is born an illegal alien, and no one is forcing the Western Hemisphere's poor to risk their lives to come here either. They do it for the exact same reason Jenks is going to law school... They decide to make the choice because they believe it will better their life.

[Jenksismyhero]

You weren't born in the life of a legal firm, and nobody is forcing you to go law school.

 

These immigrants, like many of our ancestors, were born in s***ty environments and are willing to face criminal charges and go through extreme dangers to come here and work a s***ty job for the rest of their lives. 5 years from now you'll have a smaller debt and a cushy job, and you earned by working hard.

5 years from now an illegal will still work the same level s***ty job (dishwasher, landscaper, painter, etc..) making the same s***ty money, still not receiving medical benefits but the alien will mind his or her own business while Mr. Whitecollar like yourself is trying to push them out of the country thinking it isn't fair that you can get the newest Mercedes because you have too much debt in your house and law school.

 

I'm sorry, I forgot that we have a no tolerance policy for immigration. Of course the ONLY way to better your life is to come into the country illegally. What a shame it is that people have to work their way through life and abide by the laws of the land to be successful. Tell joe-schmo alien to go through the proper channels of immigration and he can be as successful as he wants to be. No one is forcing him to take on these crazy ridiculous extreme jobs you think actually exist.

 

I'm not one of those people who think we need to kick every illegal out, but it's ridiculous to give blanket amnesty to people who willfully break the law, regardless of their motive for doing so. Devise a system where people who've been here for X number of years (proven by documentation) can stay, so long as they pay back every cent of taxes and social services that they owe the rest of the public, and I'd proudly support it.

[Balta1701]

I'm sorry, I forgot that we have a no tolerance policy for immigration. Of course the ONLY way to better your life is to come into the country illegally. What a shame it is that people have to work their way through life and abide by the laws of the land to be successful. Tell joe-schmo alien to go through the proper channels of immigration and he can be as successful as he wants to be. No one is forcing him to take on these crazy ridiculous extreme jobs you think actually exist.

 

I'm not one of those people who think we need to kick every illegal out, but it's ridiculous to give blanket amnesty to people who willfully break the law, regardless of their motive for doing so. Devise a system where people who've been here for X number of years (proven by documentation) can stay, so long as they pay back every cent of taxes and social services that they owe the rest of the public, and I'd proudly support it.

Well, the one big overlooked aspect of this IMO is that at some level, you're actually right on the first part.

 

So, let's accept for a moment the claim that there are jobs at wages that Americans won't do but that immigrants will do. In that case, it makes sense to allow enough immigrants into this country to fill up at least most of those jobs, because otherwise, crops die in the fields, New Orleans isnt' rebuilt, and so on.

 

But clearly, that hasnt' happened. There aren't 10 million immigrants out of work because the illegal immigrants came in and took their jobs. No, the problem is actually at a different level; the problem is up in the government. There is clearly a large demand for these workers, on the level of millions. But because of the structure of our laws, the government has denied businesses the ability to find the workers they need and the government has denied workers the opportunity to fill those roles. For whatever reason, be it xenophobia, other interests who don't want the workers, whatever, this is a problem at the government level, and the sole reason why we have 12 million illegal immigrants or however many in this country is that the government has not given either employers or workers the ability to fill these jobs by any legal means.

 

This, IMO, is why we need to pass something resembling an immigration bill immediately, if for no other reason than to just get us on the path to fixing this government mandated wall between the demand for workers and the supply of workers, because that wall is the entire source of the problem.

[southsider2k5]

So does anyone else see the connection of "falling" wages and 12 milion people willing to work for less than market wages? In essense we are all subsidizing other countries by allowing our wages to support families around the world.

[retro1983hat]

This argument is making me sick.

 

Immigration is what made this country great. Illegal immigration will cripple this country.

 

Go ahead, get in a car accident with an illegal immigrant. I bet most of you know someone or had it happen to you. How did that work out? Yep, they had no license, no insurance and suddenly "not live there" when their court date came up. Probably changed names and social security numbers while your insurance goes up.

[Steff]

This argument is making me sick.

 

Immigration is what made this country great. Illegal immigration will cripple this country.

 

Go ahead, get in a car accident with an illegal immigrant. I bet most of you know someone or had it happen to you. How did that work out? Yep, they had no license, no insurance and suddenly "not live there" when their court date came up. Probably changed names and social security numbers while your insurance goes up.

 

 

A van full of the little bastards cut Jim off 3 years ago and because Jim hit them it was his fault, despite NINE witness accounts. Just under $20K and 8 months later they were out of our lives.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I'd like to see some of the little 21 year olds on this board

 

<_>

[Steff]

<_>

 

 

 

I was sure to say "some of", but feel free to wear the shoe if you choose to act like one of the ones I am referring to.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

...

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well.. now I've read it all.

 

Damn you Jenks for wanting a better life, working your ass off for it, and being a wee bit ticked off when someone who didn't work for it get's it for free.

I'd love to see an illegal who became a lawyer for free. I really would.

 

 

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This argument is making me sick.

 

Immigration is what made this country great. Illegal immigration will cripple this country.

 

Go ahead, get in a car accident with an illegal immigrant. I bet most of you know someone or had it happen to you. How did that work out? Yep, they had no license, no insurance and suddenly "not live there" when their court date came up. Probably changed names and social security numbers while your insurance goes up.

How is that any different than the number of cheap/stupid American citizens who drive without licenses and/or insurance?

 

What's the ratio to uninsured/no license citizens to uninsured/no license aliens?

[Steff]

I'd love to see an illegal who became a lawyer for free. I really would.

 

So would I. I'm sure that would piss Jenks off even more.

 

:rolleyes

 

Now that I see you're going to take the smartass route you can play with the rest of the board. They will do a much better job of tearing you a new ass than I would on this topic anyway.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So would I. I'm sure that would piss Jenks off even more.

 

:rolleyes

 

Now that I see you're going to take the smartass route you can play with the rest of the board. They will do a much better job of tearing you a new ass than I would on this topic anyway.

Jenks is specifically b****ing about having to pay for law school. You said in response to my post that he should be mad for someone "who didn't work for it (law school) get's (sic) for free."

 

I don't know of ANY illegals that have come across the border and were able to obtain a law degree for free.

 

If Jenks was complaining about working hard and paying lots of money to become a roofer, painter, landscaper, or another job illegals tend to work, you would have a valid point.

[NorthSideSox72]

Jenks is specifically b****ing about having to pay for law school. You said in response to my post that he should be mad for someone "who didn't work for it (law school) get's (sic) for free."

 

I don't know of ANY illegals that have come across the border and were able to obtain a law degree for free.

 

If Jenks was complaining about working hard and paying lots of money to become a roofer, painter, landscaper, or another job illegals tend to work, you would have a valid point.

Kind of hard for people to want to engage you in conversation when you take a ridiculously pedantic, literalist tack on a single example in a complex discussion. If you stopped inspecting the bark on that one tree, you might catch a glimpse of the forest.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of hard for people to want to engage you in conversation when you take a ridiculously pedantic, literalist tack on a single example in a complex discussion. If you stopped inspecting the bark on that one tree, you might catch a glimpse of the forest.

It's getting ridiculous.

 

It started with Alpha Dog looking out at some hispanics doing yardwork, assuming they were illegal, and saying they weren't working hard. Then he talks about how hard his job is and how hard he works.

 

Then Steff adds her story about how hard she worked while going through school and interning.

 

Then Jenksismyb**** tops it off with talking about how hard it is to work 40-45 hours a week at a law firm and going to law school along with the debt he will have when he finishes.

 

Aside from alpha dog assuming the citzenship status of some slacking workers, what do these examples have to do with illegal immigration?

 

The message was apparently Americans work too hard to have good lives and illegals get it for free.

 

I honestly don't know any illegals who go to college, law school for free or own their own legal business without paying the same costs as an American Citizen.

 

I'm betting these three posters wouldn't trade their live with an illegal. They've worked too hard for it and they live much better lives.

[EvilMonkey]

I honestly don't know any illegals who go to college, law school for free or own their own legal business without paying the same costs as an American Citizen.

May not be free, but it sure costs alot less than some Americans can get it for.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20...25600-6207r.htm

... But once the 471-page bill was produced and distributed late last week, conservatives were alarmed by some of the provisions.

None so much as the proposal to make illegal aliens eligible for in-state tuition costs.

"This means that while American citizens from Tennessee, Georgia, South Carolina, Massachusetts have to pay out-of-state tuition rates if they send their kids to the University of Virginia or the University of Alabama, people who have illegally immigrated into the country do not," Mr. Sessions said. "How much sense does that make, to have people here illegally and they have more benefits than those who are here legally?"

In 2000, 126,000 illegal aliens were enrolled in U.S. colleges and universities, according to figures published by the Congressional Research Service. It's not clear how many would be eligible for in-state tuition rates if the current proposal became law.

[southsideirish71]

How exactly do illegal immigrants pay income taxes and property taxes. I mean unless they have stolen someone's identity, they cant exactly pay income and property taxes. So how again, are they paying for medical and their children's schooling. As an immigrant, my family has paid taxes since we have arrived. But then again, we arrived legally and went through the process like you are supposed to. But the illegal, who shows up in a district doesn't pay into the education programs of the state. And of course, with his company not reporting he really exists, neither are they. So how again, are they subsidizing the education of their children.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think the point is that we work hard AND still have to pay taxes AND pay for health care AND pay for our education AND pay for our (well not me but in the future) kids health and education, etc, etc etc. We're tired of paying for our own interests as well as others, especially when those others are here illegally.

 

You don't see them getting anything for FREE, but you see them getting things TAX FREE, which is huge. Think about how much tax revenue you'd get from 12 million people. Think how much we spend, per year, on illegals ($20k right?). So it's not 'free' but it's sure is better than being here legally.

 

And unfortunately, in some states, illegal immigrants can (and do) get financial aid:

 

Several states -- Texas, California, New York, Utah, Illinois, Washington, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Kansas -- have passed state laws providing in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens who have attended high school in the state for three or more years. Similar legislation is pending in Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, Maryland (legislation passed, but awaiting governor's signature), Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. (Wisconsin also passed such a law, but the governor vetoed it.) Also, some schools in Georgia provide in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens. The Texas law also allows illegal aliens to receive state student financial aid.

 

http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml

 

 

One thing that cracks me up about your responses is that you paint this picture like illegal aliens are essentially in slavery and even though they get paid something they should be getting more. Their situations are NOT that bad. For every illegal that is working in crappy positions, I'll give you 10 ordinary American CITIZENs working their asses off 40-50 hours a week and not getting half of the government assistance your illegals or any other bum on the street receives. It makes me sick we even debate this sort of issue when we have honest, hard-working people scrapping by.

[WCSox]

One thing that cracks me up about your responses is that you paint this picture like illegal aliens are essentially in slavery and even though they get paid something they should be getting more. Their situations are NOT that bad.

 

Well, some of their situations are pretty bad and are not that far removed from slavery. And I am more pissed at the Mexican government, our government, and the businesses who enable and support this crap than the illegals themselves.

 

That said, they understand our laws and the consequences for breaking them. So if somebody (rightfully) decides to crack down on them, too bad.

[southsider2k5]

How exactly do illegal immigrants pay income taxes and property taxes. I mean unless they have stolen someone's identity, they cant exactly pay income and property taxes. So how again, are they paying for medical and their children's schooling. As an immigrant, my family has paid taxes since we have arrived. But then again, we arrived legally and went through the process like you are supposed to. But the illegal, who shows up in a district doesn't pay into the education programs of the state. And of course, with his company not reporting he really exists, neither are they. So how again, are they subsidizing the education of their children.

 

I don't know about property taxes, but they can pay income taxes with a federally issued taxpayer ID number. Little known fact is that you don't have to have a social security number, its just nearly impossible to be without it. Granted, most do not, because most illegals work on a cash basis, but it is theoretically pretty simple.

 

Well, some of their situations are pretty bad and are not that far removed from slavery. And I am more pissed at the Mexican government, our government, and the businesses who enable and support this crap than the illegals themselves.

 

That said, they understand our laws and the consequences for breaking them. So if somebody (rightfully) decides to crack down on them, too bad.

 

If there wasn't the incentive to be here created by these groups, the problem would not exsist.

[WCSox]

If there wasn't the incentive to be here created by these groups, the problem would not exsist.

 

I agree. Decapitate the source by fining the hell out of the businesses. Too bad neither party will do it.