Advice for KW

[gosox41]

KW:

 

I really appreciate what you have done for the Sox. Nothing will beat winning the Series in 2005.

 

But we live in a 'What have you done for me lately' society and here we are 2 years later, not even in contention for the WC.

 

You spoke numerous times abuot about avoiding being bad, which is what this team is now. You speak of emulating the Braves as well as the Twins and A'. And those are great organizations to model after. There is one huge difference in why those teams are competitive year in and year out on siginificantly lesser budgets while the Sox have only 1 playoff appearnce (albeit a hugely successful one that none of the 3 teams listed has had lately) under your tenure.

 

It comes down to the farm system. The Sox farm system is bad...really really bad. The proof is right here on the field. Guys like Prinz, Bukovich, Day, Terrero, Gonzalez and Owens are a big reason the team is bad. Injuries have hurt the 2007 Sox but there is no depth in the minors as has been proven as of late. Of course certain Sox fans like me have been raising questions about this for the last 4-5 years, but we've been told we're ignorant and don't know the game. While I don't know the ins and outs or scouting I do know 2 things: bad baseball and business.

 

So here comes the unsolicited advice for you:

 

It's been reported that the Twins have 3 times as many scouts as the Sox. I don't know if that number is 100% accurate but they're scouting department is definitely bigger then the Sox. My suggestion is that you go out there and increase the number of scouts as well as player development personnel. Make it the same size as the Twins. They compete every year by spending less. They're a lot more fundamentally sound and outside of 2005 have consistenly beaten us in the standings.

 

Now we all know scouts don't make much money. So this isn't a huge expense for the Sox. And if you hire competent enough guys, it's an investment that pays off huge.

 

Let's use Buerhle as an example since he is the most significant starting pitcher the Sox have drafted and developed since 1989. Over the last 7 years, based on my calculations the Sox have paid Buehrle about $40 million. It's a lot of money. And this year he is going to leave as a FA and if speculation is correct, can get another $75 mill over 5 years form somebody else.

 

Wouldn't it be great if the Sox internally had 1 starting pitcher the drafted that can be a potential 15 game winner with 200+ innings waiting in the wings? Wouldn't that be a much better option then Gavin Floyd? If said pitcher did exist, the cost of keeping him just until free agency will more then make up the extra cost of expanding the scouting and player development area while in the process helping the team win games.

 

Now I relaize that 15 game winners just don't happen, so the Sox may not necessarily have a 15 game winner waiting in the wings of any given year (though I would hope after 7 drafts you would have sometihng close or better). But what abuot the benefits of having other prpoductive players waiting in the wings to add depth in case of injury. Andy Gonzalez? Sure he's a good kid and plays hard, but he's not a future starting middle infielder for a pennant contending team. Same thing with Owens and Terrrero. Having a productive minor league system would add depth and would limit these 3-16 streches. Don't like having a SS with a .260 OBP making $5mill?? That's OK because with a productive farm system you can have a better offensive player for a fraction of the cost.

 

Now if this team wins more, more people show thus helping the team pay for that increased scouting and player development area.

 

The Sox have squandered so many opportunities the last 7 years when it comes to the farm system. You have Ozzie Guillen, a huge name in Venezuela who is loved and just won a WS. Why not build off it and start sending some scouts down there and sign some of those guys that aren't draft eligible? Use Ozzie's name and marketability to make this team better for the future. What are you waiting for?

 

Instead, we get to watch the Sox draft the sons of the front office department. Are they legit prospects or guys who got drafted because daddy works there. We already wasted a pick on your son once so he could get a college scholarship so now we have to do it again? It's almost as bad as drafting Schueler's daughter.

 

Anyway, that's my free advice. I hope you use some of it, unless of course you either 1. Enjoy losing or 2. are going to have a NY Yankee type of budget.

 

 

Bob

[RME JICO]

I agree about the scouting 100%, it should become a bigger focus within the organization.

 

However, that alone will not fix this team and it has not helped the teams you mentioned do very much over the last few years either.

 

KW needs to move on from looking for the right guy (grinder), and worrying about clubhouse chemistry, because the last 2 years have shown that those two factors/values don't always translate into wins. Talent has more of an impact. JR needs to give KW the flexibility to make some impact moves in the FA market, especially for positional players.

[southsideirish]

OK Bob - but how do you know what Gavin Floyd is? How do you know he is not a 200 IP 15 Win guy? I hope he is and rubs your face in it.

How do you know they aren't marketing Ozzie's name in Ven.? It sounds like you know what is going on, but yet you couldn't possibly.

Edited June 16, 2007 by southsideirish

[elrockinMT]

We will be ok

[zenryan]

I would have said "resign."

 

better than typing out all that stuff.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(zenryan @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have said "resign."

 

better than typing out all that stuff.

Yeah - that's the answer. Genius.

[gosox41]

OK Bob - but how do you know what Gavin Floyd is? How do you know he is not a 200 IP 15 Win guy? I hope he is and rubs your face in it.

How do you know they aren't marketing Ozzie's name in Ven.? It sounds like you know what is going on, but yet you couldn't possibly.

 

 

I don't know for certain any more then you do. I haven't seen him but I've read alot and have seen his numbers. I hope he turns into a consistent 20 game winner, but I have a bad feeling about this guy.

 

Also, the Sox didn't draft this guy. Imagine if we had drafted a guy with some potential and then traded for a potential future 15 game winner be it Floyd (which I doubt) or someone else.

 

Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility.

 

 

 

Bob

 

I don't know for certain any more then you do. I haven't seen him but I've read alot and have seen his numbers. I hope he turns into a consistent 20 game winner, but I have a bad feeling about this guy.

 

Also, the Sox didn't draft this guy. Imagine if we had drafted a guy with some potential and then traded for a potential future 15 game winner be it Floyd (which I doubt) or someone else.

 

Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility.

As for marketing in Venezuela, maybe they are. But it's not working. List for me the number of signings the team has made directly from Venezuela since Ozzie has been manager.

 

 

 

Bob

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know for certain any more then you do. I haven't seen him but I've read alot and have seen his numbers. I hope he turns into a consistent 20 game winner, but I have a bad feeling about this guy.

 

Also, the Sox didn't draft this guy. Imagine if we had drafted a guy with some potential and then traded for a potential future 15 game winner be it Floyd (which I doubt) or someone else.

 

Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility.

 

 

 

Bob

You mentioned Floyd specifically and kind of put him down. You wrote it as if it were fact - not opinion. I think he has a ton of potential. I don't know what he will be, but I would not judge him on it just yet and I didn't - you did. Give him time and don't jump to any conclusions.

[kwolf68]

And KW...

 

please keep trading young minor leaguer players for minor league veterans with virtually no upside. He got lucky with a few trades, but I am not convinced he will be able to rebuild this franchise.

 

He made some great deals...but most of his recent deals have been garbage.

[gosox41]

You mentioned Floyd specifically and kind of put him down. You wrote it as if it were fact - not opinion. I think he has a ton of potential. I don't know what he will be, but I would not judge him on it just yet and I didn't - you did. Give him time and don't jump to any conclusions.

 

 

I hope you're right. I would love for him to reach the potential you think he has. By saying he has 'a ton of potential'can I assume you like him to be a #2 type starter or better?

 

 

 

Bob

 

And KW...

 

please keep trading young minor leaguer players for minor league veterans with virtually no upside. He got lucky with a few trades, but I am not convinced he will be able to rebuild this franchise.

 

He made some great deals...but most of his recent deals have been garbage.

 

 

I question that to. KW has that football like mentality which works great in baseball if you have a good talented team that has a legit shot at making the playoffs.

 

But lack of awareness or patience in player development won't work well competing in the MLB financial environment which is extremely different then the NFL. It also won't necessarily make the Sox better then the Twins, Indians, and Tigers in the next couple of years.

 

 

Bob

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And KW...

 

please keep trading young minor leaguer players for minor league veterans with virtually no upside. He got lucky with a few trades, but I am not convinced he will be able to rebuild this franchise.

 

He made some great deals...but most of his recent deals have been garbage.

Are you speaking of the Cunningham/Richar trade? From what I read Richar has great potential and a lot of upside. What have you read or seen different? Have you seen either play or are you just looking at scouting reports? I really don't think Kenny Williams needs or is looking for your confidence in anything. What are the garbage deals?

 

 

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope you're right. I would love for him to reach the potential you think he has. By saying he has 'a ton of potential'can I assume you like him to be a #2 type starter or better?

Bob - I don't know what he has. That's the point. Neither of us do. However - you made it clear that he is just about worthless - which I find kind of humorous. I made no distinction one way or another. I have read a lot on him that says he has great stuff - but he lacks control and sometimes confidence. Hopefully both those issues can be worked out. I have never read a thing about him that didn't say he had the potential to be really good. How can you project any player to be any type of starter until he proves himself in the majors? To do so would be silly.

[Allsox]

It's been reported that the Twins have 3 times as many scouts as the Sox. I don't know if that number is 100% accurate but they're scouting department is definitely bigger then the Sox. My suggestion is that you go out there and increase the number of scouts as well as player development personnel. Make it the same size as the Twins. They compete every year by spending less. They're a lot more fundamentally sound and outside of 2005 have consistenly beaten us in the standings.

 

Now we all know scouts don't make much money. So this isn't a huge expense for the Sox. And if you hire competent enough guys, it's an investment that pays off huge.

 

Bob

Hmm, I always felt something was off with the Sox scouting dept when it came to scouting upcoming opponents (Ever notice the scrub players on other teams kill the Sox besides the star players?) but I didn't know they lacked in the number of them.

 

Very interesting pts, although didn't KW say the dept was already on notice at SoxFest?

[gosox41]

Hmm, I always felt something was off with the Sox scouting dept when it came to scouting upcoming opponents (Ever notice the scrub players on other teams kill the Sox besides the star players?) but I didn't know they lacked in the number of them.

 

Very interesting pts, although didn't KW say the dept was already on notice at SoxFest?

 

 

KW did say that, but those are just words. The fact is if they are outmanned, and there's only so much that can be done to compete with teams like the A's, Braves, and Twins.

 

But the Sox minor league system speaks for it self. Heck, we lose 2 starting OFer's and they didn't even call up their 2 top OF prospects. Instead we have Terrero and Owens.

 

I hope KW and his scouts pull off some srewd deals when they trade Buehrle, etc. Because if they don't, and they don't sign good FA's, next year could be worse then this year.

 

Instead of KW putting the scouts on notice, let's put KW on notice in regards to the farm system. He's had 7 drafts so far to turn around the alleged mess that Schu left us with. I'm still waiting for a good impact player to be drafted and developed.

 

 

Bob

[knightni]

You're right.

 

 

NotBob

[Gregory Pratt]

If it's true that the Twins have that many more scouts than us, I'm really frustrated by it. More scouts, please.

[WCSox]

Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility.

 

That's true, but it doesn't guarantee anything either. Larry Himes drafted/traded for a bunch of future studs in the late '80s and they couldn't even win a playoff series.

Edited June 18, 2007 by WCSox

[caulfield12]

It looks like Fields is really coming around. Unfortunately, we might never get any return on investment w/ Crede (except for that little ol World Series victory!)

 

I think we'll be okay if Fields and one more of the following (Owens, Sweeney, Terrero or Anderson) can become a major league regular. Obviously, the odds favor Sweeney there the most, because Owens is a 4/5 outfielder/PR and Anderson's currently out of favor.

 

Actually, I don't think there's a HUGE difference at all in Terrero and Anderson. Of course, that's just an opinion.

 

I am out of the country (in the Philippines), but it seems like Josh is really starting to evolve and feel like he belongs (having Crede out for the season obviously helps his confidence)...still, it's going to come down to pitching, both starting and bullpen.

 

The fact of the matter is that we'd be right around .500 or maybe even a game or two above with just a top third or top quartile pen, instead of the worst one in the major leagues.

 

Even if we were hitting like the first half 2006 team, the bullpen would be slowly destroying this team's confidence, because the 05 game closed those 1-2 run leads so consistently after Takatsu was sent packing.

 

It's really simple, Floyd, Gio, Masset, Russell, McCullough, Broadway, Phillips and Haeger (not to mention this year's draftees) have to provide us AT LEAST a 2-3 level starter and another 4-5.

 

It's not out of the realm of possibility...and I haven't read the Cunningham trade thread but my first impression is that we "overvalued" him because he was one of our few position prospects in the low minors, but he was more of a Rowand/Reed/Erstad/Anderson type (perhaps with a little more power upside) than a future MLB All-Star.

Edited June 18, 2007 by caulfield12