6/16 Games (Gio's hand reattached)

[danman31]

He's been a massive bust so far....that doesn't mean that label has to stick though.

Yeah, that's what I meant. He is a bust now, but every GM would give this guy another chance.

 

GP- my point about the 04 numbers is that he did show some ability to succeed in the Majors which would be enough for most teams to take a shot at him.

[Chisoxfn]

 

There's a reason the Phillies thought they'd completely ripped us off with the Garcia deal and it isn't because they thought Gio was a load of crap (although I'm not sure they exactly coveted him after his year). There's a reason nobody else ever picked him up, either, and as for you saying, "No GM would consider a top 5 draft pick who was a top 10 prospect in the game 2 years ago with no injuries a bust" that's not true.

 

Gillick thought so and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who think so. The consensus was, "Floyd is a bust" through much of baseball until KW picked him up and I still think he's not good. I know I'm not alone, either, and I'll call him a bust until he proves otherwise.

 

Oh, and as for your numbers -- how selective. 28.1 good IP in 2004. 2004? What about his horrible, horrible run last year? His AAA numbers this year are all right but it's his fourth time in AAA and he's in the terrible IL. I'm not impressed.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think he's ready yet and I know I'm not alone. There are other people here who've said it's not a good idea to bring him up just yet. Give him some time to get used to his success this year.

 

I look forward to his starts for the White Sox, whenever they come, because I want to know whether or not I was right or wrong. I think I know, but I want to know for sure.

Why thank you.

Just cause a GM trades a player doesn't mean he doesn't like a player or has given up on the player. The Sox traded Miguel Olivo and Chris Young, two guys Ken Williams absolutely LOVED (not because they were garbage in his eyes).

 

The Phils made that move because what they thought they were getting in Freddy Garcia, not because of Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd. And you really are off the rocker if you think teams would have passed up on the opportunity of getting Gavin Floyd (some franchises would have valued him more highly than others, but all would have gladly taken a chance on him).

[Gregory Pratt]

Just cause a GM trades a player doesn't mean he doesn't like a player or has given up on the player. The Sox traded Miguel Olivo and Chris Young, two guys Ken Williams absolutely LOVED (not because they were garbage in his eyes).

 

The Phils made that move because what they thought they were getting in Freddy Garcia, not because of Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd. And you really are off the rocker if you think teams would have passed up on the opportunity of getting Gavin Floyd (some franchises would have valued him more highly than others, but all would have gladly taken a chance on him).

 

Let's stop comparing Gavin Floyd to Chris Young and John Danks and whatever other crazy comparisons people have been making of him.

 

Gillick gave up on Floyd and so did Philly the city + organization. THAT much is well-known.

[caulfield12]

Konerko didn't spend parts of 4 seasons in AAA. Lasorda traded him to Cincinatti because he needed a closer and was concerned about Konerko's hip. The Reds traded him for an up and comer who they used to get Ken Griffey Jr. Floyd was dumped by Philadelphia, using the courtesy line, "all he needs is a change of scenery".

 

 

Change of scenery?

 

See the following:

 

Jose Contreras

Carl Everett

AJ Pierzynski

Matt Thornton (2006 at least)

[Gregory Pratt]

Pierzynski was never bad. Everett didn't work out each time we traded for him/picked him up. Contreras is a fine example but Contreras was a grown ass man that dominated international competition for years and was just getting over some serious things that Gavin Floyd will never have to deal with (not that I'm discounting Floyd's life struggles. I'm sure he's had some serious struggles, as we all have, but I for one don't think I've dominated the world then left my home and family to be hostages to a dictator).

 

Thornton's year last year was good, but he was more than a change of scenery. He needed to throw strikes and Cooper worked on that for one year. I guess I can concede him.

[witesoxfan]

There's a reason the Phillies thought they'd completely ripped us off with the Garcia deal and it isn't because they thought Gio was a load of crap (although I'm not sure they exactly coveted him after his year).

 

Organizations can sour on players quite quickly. Going into the 2006 season, Brian Anderson was all but guaranteed to be the CFer for the White Sox for the next 6 years. Halfway through 2007, he's probably played his final game in a White Sox uniform. 2 years of sucking will do that easily.

 

There's a reason nobody else ever picked him up, either, and as for you saying, "No GM would consider a top 5 draft pick who was a top 10 prospect in the game 2 years ago with no injuries a bust" that's not true.

 

No GM picked him up because no GM coveted him as highly as Kenny Williams did. Do you think GMs were offering World Series veteran starting pitchers for a top 5 prospect along with Gavin as a huge part of the deal? I really doubt that other GMs weren't talking to Gillick about Floyd, but they were more looking to give up players like Mike MacDougal and David Aardsma for him; you think he's going to take Freddy Garcia and give up Gio or is he going to take David Aardsma?

[Soxbadger]

I dont get this, why is Danks vs Floyd not a reasonable comparison?

 

Floyd Top 5 pick, Danks top 10 pick.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Gavin-Floyd.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/John-Danks.shtml

 

In fact at 21 Floyd put up better stats in AA than Danks did.

 

So he has had 2 rough seasons where he may not have been handled properly by the Phillies.

 

This year he has a 3.5 era in AAA, not exactly sure why anyone would give up on a guy with his talent.

 

As for the post, I believe that what was being implied was that one of our older starters would be traded so that Floyd can move into the 5th spot.

 

Edit

 

Basically we should be thankful the Phillies messed with this guy, because there was no way we would get some one with his talent and pedigree fi they were living up to their potential for Freddy.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Soxbadger

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm sure there are other GMs that would give Gavin Floyd a chance...for a bag of balls, but not serious talent.

[Rowand44]

I'm sure there are other GMs that would give Gavin Floyd a chance...for a bag of balls, but not serious talent.

He's 24, not 30.

[Gregory Pratt]

How sure of that are you Rowand?

 

 

PS: all I'm saying is, there's a reason he was a punch-line on Philly's site during the draft and the Phillies thought they'd absolutely hosed us when they traded for Garcia. It isn't because people were breaking down the door for Gavin Floyd, that's for sure.

[Soxbadger]

And if you were here 3-4 years ago you would have seen half the threads were most Sox fans wanted to trade Jon Garland for a bag of balls.

 

What is exactly your point?

 

Floyd is 24, was once considered one of the top prospects in all of baseball. In 2003 he was rated 9th overall by BA.

 

Even in 2005 he would have been the White Sox highest rated prospect.

 

Fans are stupid, the fact that they thought they hosed us on Freddy Garcia shows exactly the calibre of fan you were talking about.

 

Anyone that watched him pitch 1 game last year knew something was wrong.

[Gregory Pratt]

Philadelphia the organization thought they'd hosed us. Fans, too, but the organization especially.

[Soxbadger]

So the Phillies are idiots, why exactly is this proof that Floyd could not still turn out to be a very effective pitcher?

 

They traded for Garcia without a physical, how stupid can you possibly be.

[danman31]

Philadelphia the organization thought they'd hosed us. Fans, too, but the organization especially.

Garcia has an ERA of 5.90, is on the DL, and is making $10,000,000 per year. Yeah, they hosed us alright. LOL

[Gregory Pratt]

Whether or not they hosed us is not the point. I didn't say they hosed us, did I?

 

I can't believe there are people disputing the fact that Floyd's been considered a bust all around baseball and not just by me as if I'm some random lunatic imaging that Floyd has been written off by much of the baseball world.

[Soxbadger]

I dont care what everyone else says.

 

90% of the people in the world are idiots, so Im not exactly going to base my evaluation off of what other people think.

 

The guy is 24 years old, and still could have a major impact for the White Sox.

 

You said that Danks vs Floyd was not a good comparison, I pointed out that Floyd had better stats than Danks at similar ages. Floyd was a higher rated prospect than Danks ever was.

 

I just dont think that you can call a player a bust on less than 20 starts.

 

Or did you not realize he only had 100 ips in MLB?

[Gregory Pratt]

I realize. But I'm through with this discussion. We'll revisit it when Floyd hits the majors.

 

The difference between Danks and Floyd, though, is that Danks has always done the most with what he's got and challenged hitters, been aggressive. One of the biggest knocks on Floyd is that he's timid as can be.

 

They're two different people who've gone through very different development cycles. Besides, Danks has shown an ability to battle when struggling, and work his way through leagues at all levels. Floyd? Not so much.

 

Guess the fourth time's the charm.

[dasox24]

Philadelphia the organization thought they'd hosed us. Fans, too, but the organization especially.

You keep saying the Phillies' organization thought they hosed us, and I'm wondering how you know this. Do you know someone in their org?

 

I mean, I'm sure they did think they got the better end of the deal or else they wouldn't have done it. Most trades are like that. Normally, both teams think they've come out ahead. Unless a player forces your hand or you have to cut payroll, GM's normally don't go into trades thinking, "I hope I can trade Player A for something less than what he's worth."

[3E8]

 

Can anyone guess who this is? Don't cheat..

 

Just hope that a high draft pick can rediscover his talent, even if it means going all the way back to A ball.

[BearSox]

 

Can anyone guess who this is? Don't cheat..

 

Just hope that a high draft pick can rediscover his talent, even if it means going all the way back to A ball.

sadly, I cheated. I drew a complete blank. I am sure the answer will surprise many though.

[Gene Honda Civic]

 

Can anyone guess who this is? Don't cheat..

 

Just hope that a high draft pick can rediscover his talent, even if it means going all the way back to A ball.

Halladay

 

/not a cheater

[Rowand44]

I definitely cheated and was quite surprised.

[BearSox]

I definitely cheated and was quite surprised.

LIAR!

 

Cause I know all.

 

[Chisoxfn]

How sure of that are you Rowand?

 

 

PS: all I'm saying is, there's a reason he was a punch-line on Philly's site during the draft and the Phillies thought they'd absolutely hosed us when they traded for Garcia. It isn't because people were breaking down the door for Gavin Floyd, that's for sure.

Kind of like how the Sox slammed the s*** out of Maggs when he left (you know, his career was over...oh wait, he's leading the league in hitting and damn near leading it in RBI's). Teams spin s***.

 

24 year old...5th overall draft pick....stellar arm....two years removed from being one of the 3 best starting pitching prospects in the game....yep, no one would give up anything for him.

 

Afterall, Joe Borchard didn't get us Matt Thornton (cause no one would have been interested in a guy like Borchard, who obviously hasn't developed but teams all over the place would have given up at least something for the chance at developing him and IIRC Borchard was much older than Floyd at the time he was traded).

 

Philadelphia the organization thought they'd hosed us. Fans, too, but the organization especially.

Apparently they were wrong....Garcia is on the DL and Gio and Floyd are both pitching pretty damn well in the minor leagues and have a lot more value combined than Freddy Garcia does as of this moment.

[witesoxfan]

 

Can anyone guess who this is? Don't cheat..

 

Just hope that a high draft pick can rediscover his talent, even if it means going all the way back to A ball.

 

lolz, I once brought up this comparison and was completely mocked. Not sure why, seeing as how they feature similar builds, stuff, and progressions. Maybe it's because everyone thought I was presenting him out to be the next Halladay, which is a bold statement to be sure.

 

The key to either of them has been getting groundballs; once Halladay got his GO/AO from 1.30 to 2+, he turned into an ace. Floyd's has been around or just under 1 during his career in the majors, and it seems he becomes dominant when he is getting groundballs at a good rate. It could, quite honestly, very easily happen.

 

whoring myself

Edited June 20, 2007 by witesoxfan