More detailed article on the KW/Ozzie/PK meeting

[The Ginger Kid]

If you think that's true, then I'll counter that anyone who doesn't understand why a Sox fan would want them to lose right now doesn't understand baseball (or the Sox's front office).

you've moved from insightful to humorous. It's too bad. Tiger fans root for the Sox to lose, as do Twins fans. You're in good company.

 

I don't have to root for the Sox to lose. They're just not very good. I'd love to see a miraculous resurgence and I will continue to root for it but I wouldn't bet a nickel on it happening. If they do turn it around (your nightmare) then I would be most happy. And something tells me you would be too, despite your statements to the contrary.

[Dick Allen]

you've moved from insightful to humorous. It's too bad. Tiger fans root for the Sox to lose, as do Twins fans. You're in good company.

 

I don't have to root for the Sox to lose. They're just not very good. I'd love to see a miraculous resurgence and I will continue to root for it but I wouldn't bet a nickel on it happening. If they do turn it around (your nightmare) then I would be most happy. And something tells me you would be too, despite your statements to the contrary.

Its the middle ground thats maddening. I'm sure fathom would be as happy as anyone here if the Sox turned it around and made the playoffs. But if they turned it around and missed by 5 games, it would have been a wasted opportunity to get something for someone you are going to lose. These moral victories are old. Last year when the Sox came back against Houston I think and scored 8 runs or something like that in the 9th only to lose in extra innings, people were giddy. They lost. Its black and white, no gray area. Playoffs or bust. KW would be a fool to hold onto Buerhle, Dye and whoever else isn't in the plans just to pad a win total that won't be good enough to play on after 162 games.

[CanOfCorn]

Its the middle ground thats maddening. I'm sure fathom would be as happy as anyone here if the Sox turned it around and made the playoffs. But if they turned it around and missed by 5 games, it would have been a wasted opportunity to get something for someone you are going to lose. These moral victories are old. Last year when the Sox came back against Houston I think and scored 8 runs or something like that in the 9th only to lose in extra innings, people were giddy. They lost. Its black and white, no gray area. Playoffs or bust. KW would be a fool to hold onto Buerhle, Dye and whoever else isn't in the plans just to pad a win total that won't be good enough to play on after 162 games.

 

You have to remember that the White Sox fanbase is a lot wider than the smart ones on this board. We, for the most part are good, smart BASEBALL fans. But, KW has to think about the damage to PR. If they are playing well, getting back to .500, why not make a run for it? The A's have lost a lot of talent to free agency and they just keep plugging away and winning. This team is built around pitching, so, to me, you trade Dye, you trade Iguchi and you trade Contreras, if you can. You KEEP young, durable, proven LH pitchers and build around him. I see Buehrle as a poor man's Glavine. He doesn't have any outstanding pitches, but he has good control. If he wants to, he can pitch into his 40's. I think I would want someone like that locked up for 5 of those years.

[Steff]

You have to remember that the White Sox fanbase is a lot wider than the smart ones on this board. We, for the most part are good, smart BASEBALL fans. But, KW has to think about the damage to PR. If they are playing well, getting back to .500, why not make a run for it? The A's have lost a lot of talent to free agency and they just keep plugging away and winning. This team is built around pitching, so, to me, you trade Dye, you trade Iguchi and you trade Contreras, if you can. You KEEP young, durable, proven LH pitchers and build around him. I see Buehrle as a poor man's Glavine. He doesn't have any outstanding pitches, but he has good control. If he wants to, he can pitch into his 40's. I think I would want someone like that locked up for 5 of those years.

 

 

No way. As I said earlier, the Sox survived with 10K fans there for several years and they'll do it again if need be.

 

And while you might view Mark as the poor man's Glavin.. he aint. He wants his payday just like everyone else. And he'll get it.

[Mr. Showtime]

[sigh] I will admit seeing my quote I am a little disappointed in myself for Kenny's rant not being a little more profanity laced, and not including the destruction of an innocent piece of furnature and/or meal.

 

It was probably more like this; Kenny speaking to Konerko or team in general:

 

"No I don't know what you're f***ing saying at all. I have no f***ing clue what you're saying. I'm completely f***ing baffled. You're here to f***ing win! Did you come here to win this f***ing thing? Well, you have a f***ing opportunity now to get back on another f***ing team and if someone gets hurt you're the f***ing guy who gets to go in play. These guys are f***ing training and playing every day. You can go home and f***ing do push-ups and cartwheels and jerk off and whatever the f*** you want to do, you need to f***ing train. He's the f***ing coach, the team has accepted you, I'd f***ing throw that jersey on so f***ing fast his head would spin. 'What do you want me to do first, Ozzie?' Get out on the f***ing field, you're a part of the White Sox. Start practicing. You're wasting his f***ing time and my time, and your own f***ing time. We're here for twelve more weeks, get to work."

[mmmmmbeeer]

posturing.

[winninguglyin83]

we'll probably never know what was really said in the meeting.

 

I hope KW told Konerko another week to 10 days. If it does not get better, tell the boys in the locker room that five or six of them are heading out the door.

 

i imagine we'll hear a different take on what was said in the meeting in about another month.

[iamshack]

No way. As I said earlier, the Sox survived with 10K fans there for several years and they'll do it again if need be.

 

I agree with you that they can survive, but if you think KW wants to return to that nonsense you're wrong. I'm fairly certain KW has no illusions of overtaking the Cubs in this town anytime soon, but he sure as hell wants this organization to also be a powerhouse, perhaps similarly to the Mets. Winning the World Series was awesome for 05', but KW is smart enough to know that that championship was the first step in grabbing the hearts and wallets of a lot of young people in the Chicagoland area with money to spend.

 

KW's plan was to build this organization up through that championship, not return to half-priced Mondays and Tuesdays.

[Steff]

I agree with you that they can survive, but if you think KW wants to return to that nonsense you're wrong. I'm fairly certain KW has no illusions of overtaking the Cubs in this town anytime soon, but he sure as hell wants this organization to also be a powerhouse, perhaps similarly to the Mets. Winning the World Series was awesome for 05', but KW is smart enough to know that that championship was the first step in grabbing the hearts and wallets of a lot of young people in the Chicagoland area with money to spend.

 

KW's plan was to build this organization up through that championship, not return to half-priced Mondays and Tuesdays.

 

 

 

Kenny likely wont be around for those days so again I really don't think he cares. He's doing what he's got the funds and the permission to do. And mark my words, once he's gone he'll have some s*** to talk about the Sox like those before him who have been banished from the Southside.

[BearSox]

In related news, the White Sox must go 66 and 30 for the remainder of the season to win 95 games. 95 games should get us either the division or the wild card... sounds quite easy, KW, you are a genius!

 

Assuming KW meant everything he said in that article, and from the bit I saw on CSN, I'm now rooting for this team to lose until the deadline. Go ahead call me a bad fan.

 

I want a competitive team back on the field as soon as possible, and that isn't going to happen by waiting for the outfield fairies to get back.

I agree. If KW is too smug to realize this team as is has no chance, and with the way the rest of the central has developed... he needs to go if so, and if that means my favorite team in all of sports has to lose th rest of the games from here on, so be it. The team would be better in the long run.

[iamshack]

Kenny likely wont be around for those days so again I really don't think he cares. He's doing what he's got the funds and the permission to do. And mark my words, once he's gone he'll have some s*** to talk about the Sox like those before him who have been banished from the Southside.

 

I don't think Kenny is going anywhere anytime soon. And I don't think he has any intentions of having things change much from the way things have been the past few seasons.

 

It's unfortunate that this team had to play like this for the last 30 games. But I have a feeling things will look a little differently after another 30 games.

[Steff]

I don't think Kenny is going anywhere anytime soon. And I don't think he has any intentions of having things change much from the way things have been the past few seasons.

 

It's unfortunate that this team had to play like this for the last 30 games. But I have a feeling things will look a little differently after another 30 games.

 

 

Even if he doesn't go anywhere, he's not the one signing the checks. Jerry took the heat before, he'll take it again.. and blame it on the fans for not coming out the the park in the end.

 

I hope you're right on the improved performance on the field. A lot of adjustments need to be made before that happens. Let's hope they have the Craftsman's oiled up and ready to go... and are receptive to making the necessary changes.

[TheBigHurt]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Konerko, Dye and Pierzynski were asked around the break last season what the team needed for the second half in order to win it all, of course the players said they didn't need anything and hence KW made no real moves to improve the ballclub aside from adding 1 reliever to the fray.

 

If that's true, then KW is an idiot, pure and simple. And if Buerhle leaves this team with no big payoff for us, that's it, officially put me on the anti-KW list. Thanks to EVRYBODY for '05, but this s*** is getting ridiuculous.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Well said. Having Paulie in the meeting--who will be around for the next few years and has a stake in the sox future, as well as its present--was a good touch. Kw got the players perspective. That's good management, having input from its employees and listening to them. We all want to be included in major decisions.

 

As far as not trading away players--this meeting never dismisses that possibility. KW has over a month to give the players more time to play better. And the price for players usually goes up closest to the deadline.

 

Few people give them a chance. Yet it's a chance KW is giving the players that doesn't tie his hands. He still can and should trade guys if they play .500 ball from now until the deadline. That kind of faith, though--even if it's blind faith--will serve KW well as he tries to add free agents in the future. Thome, PK, Dye, Buehrle, Iguchi--these are all professionals and seemingly good guys---guys you'd want to sign with your team via free agency, and the type of players you want to attract to come play with you--deserve to treated with a measure of respect. Kw is treating them with respect by giving them the month to right the ship. If they don't no big deal.

 

But if KW had decided to sell off players this weekend and the sox went on a tear and were only a few games back by the deadline--now that kind of move could really hurt the kind of relationships with these professional good guys--and the kind of players the sox want to play here in the future, such as Ichiro.

 

I say no harm no foul. And KW should and will no doubt be looking to make deals for the future if the players are closer to last than first come the end of July.

Thanks for bringing some sanity to the discussion. Good post.

 

What do people expect KW to say???

 

Of course he's going to try to make a few deals to improve the team. But when he does trade a veteran for some younger players, he's not going to say he's conceding the season and rebuilding for the future. He'll spin it as injecting new life into this year's team.

 

I don't expect Kenny to sell off guys for A and AA prospects. But I do think he will trade for near major-league ready younger players. Just for example, and this is purely hypothetical, say he were to trade a Dye for a Billingsley. Although the move would be mainly focused on the future, he will spin it as adding Billingsley to help out a struggling bullpen to increase their chances of making a run at the wildcard this year.

Edited June 19, 2007 by South Side Fireworks Man