Buehrle Wants a Five Year Contract

[Steff]

So let me get this straight, paying Vasquez 11M or so a season for 4 years is "cheap"?? But they have a problem signing a guy that has, with the exception of last year, really been a VERY good pitcher, one of the most consistent in the league, to a 5 year deal? That just really doesnt make sense at all to me. I really believe that whether we're rebuilding or not, the pitching staff should be built around Buehrle, Garland, Danks, and Jenks.

I've never really been "sad" when a player left a team. I mean, I was bummed to let Maggs and Frank go, but it was their time to go. But I don't see it being time for Buehrle to go anywhere. And I would honestly find it hard to watch a team that hails Contreras and Vasquez as their 1-2 starters. Sign him to a huge deal. He'll be what, 33 when the contract is up? He's not the type of pitcher that I see breaking down over the next 5 years.

 

 

 

They have a problem paying a guy (IMO, at LEAST) $17 or $18 million a year for somewhere between 6 and 8 years. And ya know what.. I have a problem with that too.

[Dick Allen]

Giving Vazquez a 3 year extension before the final year of his previous contract was the equivalent of a 4 year deal. Buerhle's been a much better pitcher unless you base everything on what you see in the bullpen warming up. The policy has been fine, its worked out time and time again. I do remember JR stating the one guy they would have gone longer on was Alex Fernandez because of his mechanics. That wouldn't have worked either. It depends on what Buerhle wants per season, but I think I would take a chance on a 5 year with him if I was KW. He doesn't throw hard, and doesn't walk guys. I think he's as good of bet as anyone to be able to make it through without catasrophe

[WCSox]

I've always said you offer 5/75 by the end of June, and if he says no, then you trade him. If the Sox are planning on going with a payroll in the 80 to 90 million range over the next few years, they're going to be a bad team. Let's face it....an 80 million dollar payroll isn't the same as it was a few years ago, as medicore pitchers are getting 10 million easily these days.

 

If the Sox keep losing, they're not going to be able to support anything over $80-90 million because they'll lose about 750,000 ticket sales.

[AirScott]

IIRC, Konerko did not take less to come here than any of the other offers. On the surface it appeared to be so and was definitely good PR, but when you consider taxes on all of the offers, they came out to be the same.

While Konerko's with us on a 5/$60 million contract, Baltimore offered him 5/65.

[iamshack]

I've always said you offer 5/75 by the end of June, and if he says no, then you trade him. If the Sox are planning on going with a payroll in the 80 to 90 million range over the next few years, they're going to be a bad team. Let's face it....an 80 million dollar payroll isn't the same as it was a few years ago, as medicore pitchers are getting 10 million easily these days. All I know is that if we lose Buehrle and Garland, but keep Contreras and Vazquez, then KW better not have a job next year.

 

Well, the market right now is ridiculous, but that certainly doesn't mean you have to participate in it and it certainly doesn't mean you can't win unless you do. In fact, the teams that participate in it the most are the ones who probably cannot win. Ahem, Cubs, ahem, cough.

 

While I agree that $80 million is not what it was two years ago, there still are plenty of ways to win without having a $120 million payroll. To me, the key will be developing position players and signing durable starting pitching.

 

That's why I don't criticize KW for signing Javy and Jose. He is on to the value of durable starting pitching, he just didn't realize how far behind the ball we were in developing the position players. Mark would probably be a perfect signing for this club if we had the young position players to put on the field. Unfortunately, the time has come where we need to deal Mark in order to get those players from other clubs.

[Wedge]

I clearly don't think Conteras contract is as unmoveable as some of you all think it is. Freddy was abl eto get moved, Javier Vazquez was moved multiple times, Chan Ho Park, etc....you can bet your ass the club could move Contreras and get something if they wanted to (although it would be nice if he had a couple good starts).

 

He's unmoveable because he has a NTC. That's as unmoveable as it gets. If the point of these contracts is that they are affordable and moveable, then don't go giving the player a NTC.

[Chisoxfn]

Jose is up to a 4.80 ERA, 1.45 WHIP and isn't striking anyone out. He's believed to be atleast over 40 years of age but no one really knows for sure, his stuff has deteriorated at a shocking rate since he's now throwing exclusively in the high 80's with no strikeout pitch that he can throw for a strike and he's guaranteed $20M over the next 2 seasons. If he doesn't finish this year off strong it could be REAL tough to move him this offseason without eating any of the contract.

I agree with you that it would be tough to move him this off-season if he struggles the rest of this year. But right now I still think he's moveable and thats why they need to get him to agree to waive his no trade clause and make a deal.

[fathom]

Well, the market right now is ridiculous, but that certainly doesn't mean you have to participate in it and it certainly doesn't mean you can't win unless you do. In fact, the teams that participate in it the most are the ones who probably cannot win. Ahem, Cubs, ahem, cough.

 

Yeah, Soriano/Lilly/Marquis/Derosa are just killing the Cubs this season.

 

If the Sox keep losing, they're not going to be able to support anything over $80-90 million because they'll lose about 750,000 ticket sales.

 

Maybe they should have thought about this before trading Garcia for non-major league ready talent and doing nothing to really significantly improve a team that sucked during the 2nd half of last year.

[iamshack]

Giving Vazquez a 3 year extension before the final year of his previous contract was the equivalent of a 4 year deal. Buerhle's been a much better pitcher unless you base everything on what you see in the bullpen warming up. The policy has been fine, its worked out time and time again. I do remember JR stating the one guy they would have gone longer on was Alex Fernandez because of his mechanics. That wouldn't have worked either. It depends on what Buerhle wants per season, but I think I would take a chance on a 5 year with him if I was KW. He doesn't throw hard, and doesn't walk guys. I think he's as good of bet as anyone to be able to make it through without catasrophe

 

I don't even think the people in favor of dealing him are so worried about him being injured. It's more the fact that you really leave yourself little room for error when you've got two players making 40% of your payroll, and 4 making 60%. Kenny signed the players that were willing to exchange some years for security, and they are with the club now. Mark didn't want to, and he will be the one used to strengthen this team's future.

[WCSox]

Maybe they should have thought about this before trading Garcia for non-major league ready talent and doing nothing to really significantly improve a team that sucked during the 2nd half of last year.

 

LOL, since when was Freddy and his 87 mph fastball worth major-league-ready talent? They should be happy that Philly's front office was willing to eat the $10 million left on his contract and didn't bother to give him a physical.

[iamshack]

Yeah, Soriano/Lilly/Marquis/Derosa are just killing the Cubs this season.

 

Oh, it's not now that they will kill the Cubs. Check back in 2009 and see how that's working out for them...

[southsider2k5]

LOL, since when was Freddy and his 87 mph fastball worth major-league-ready talent? They should be happy that Philly's front office was willing to eat the $10 million left on his contract and didn't bother to give him a physical.

 

Freddy and his 6.00 ERA and injury would have kept Danks out of the rotation, so he wouldn't exactly have helped us this year. It ended up being lucky we made both deals because Danks has been way better than Garcia. Still even if we hadn't have traded McCarthy too, its hard to believe that Brandon wouldn't have been better than Garcia (McCarthy admitted to pressing to try to prove himself to his new team, his numbers were way better before his blister problems). Just getting rid of Garcia and not having to pay him has turned out to be an improvement for this year.

[iamshack]

Jose is up to a 4.80 ERA, 1.45 WHIP and isn't striking anyone out. He's believed to be atleast over 40 years of age but no one really knows for sure, his stuff has deteriorated at a shocking rate since he's now throwing exclusively in the high 80's with no strikeout pitch that he can throw for a strike and he's guaranteed $20M over the next 2 seasons. If he doesn't finish this year off strong it could be REAL tough to move him this offseason without eating any of the contract.

 

I'm assuming you are referring to him not being able to get his forkball over for a strike. He doesn't have to throw it for a strike everytime, he just has to prove he can throw it for a strike at times. I have disagreed with the way AJ calls Jose's games for as long as I can remember- he needs to be throwing the forkball more than he does.

 

Another thing, remember this when you are comparing our starter's ERA's to past years: This bullpen has stranded ZERO inherited runners this year. Every guy they inherit they allow to score and I cannot IMAGINE how much that has inflated the ERA's of Javy and Jose this season.

[fathom]

Freddy and his 6.00 ERA and injury would have kept Danks out of the rotation, so he wouldn't exactly have helped us this year. It ended up being lucky we made both deals because Danks has been way better than Garcia. Still even if we hadn't have traded McCarthy too, its hard to believe that Brandon wouldn't have been better than Garcia (McCarthy admitted to pressing to try to prove himself to his new team, his numbers were way better before his blister problems). Just getting rid of Garcia and not having to pay him has turned out to be an improvement for this year.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Garcia. Everyone on this site wanted him gone. However, I will never be convinced otherwise that they couldn't have received at least one major league ready prospect for him. Since we didn't get any MLB ready talent for him, we all thought we'd use that money or the prospects to acquire a stand-out hitter. Instead, we got a couple of scrubs.

Edited June 19, 2007 by fathom

[iamshack]

I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Garcia. Everyone on this site wanted him gone. However, I will never be convinced otherwise that they couldn't have received at least one major league ready prospect for him. Since we didn't get any MLB ready talent for him, we all thought we'd use that money or the prospects to acquire a stand-out hitter. Instead, we got a couple of scrubs.

 

We thought we did receive ml-ready talent in Gavin Floyd. So maybe they were off a few months...

 

The money shed from Freddy's contract was used to pay our current players' escalating contracts (Dye, Iguchi, Uribe, Garland, etc).

[southsider2k5]

I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Garcia. Everyone on this site wanted him gone. However, I will never be convinced otherwise that they couldn't have received at least one major league ready prospect for him. Since we didn't get any MLB ready talent for him, we all thought we'd use that money or the prospects to acquire a stand-out hitter. Instead, we got a couple of scrubs.

 

Its way too early to call either Floyd or Gonzalez scrubs.

[WCSox]

I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Garcia. Everyone on this site wanted him gone. However, I will never be convinced otherwise that they couldn't have received at least one major league ready prospect for him.

 

We're lucky to have taken that $10 million off our payroll and gotten a solid prospect like Gio. Everybody who was paying attention knew that Freddy had arm issues last year and may have been damaged goods.

 

Since we didn't get any MLB ready talent for him, we all thought we'd use that money or the prospects to acquire a stand-out hitter. Instead, we got a couple of scrubs.

 

One needs to also consider that our $106 million payroll probably kept us from acquiring somebody like Soriano. And it's not like JD, Paulie, and Thome sucked last season.

Edited June 19, 2007 by WCSox

[Kalapse]

We're lucky to have taken that $10 million off our payroll and gotten a solid prospect like Gio. Everybody who was paying attention knew that Freddy had arm issues last year and may have been damaged goods.

One needs to also consider that our $106 million payroll probably kept us from acquiring somebody like Soriano. And it's not like JD, Paulie, and Thome sucked last season.

The payroll is actually much closer to $96M than $106M. Just saying.

[WCSox]

The payroll is actually much closer to $96M than $106M. Just saying.

 

Well, yes. My point was that we're pretty much at our ceiling right now.

[Controlled Chaos]

Find a new thread to rehash the same old Freddy for Floyd junk. This thread is about me pleading to keep Mark Buehrle!!

 

My loyalties lie with the Sox and that will never change, but I've really taking a liking to Buehrle. I just love the way he goes about his businesss. He's just a regular guy that can pitch. I like to root for him. I want him to do good. There really aren't many players I feel like that about. I mean, I want them to do good cause they're on the Sox and I want to win, but I can give a s*** about them. I feel good rooting for someone like Mark. I actually feel bad for him when he has a bad outing. I don't know, it's hard to explain. Take Zambrano for example, if he was on the Sox, I wouldn't feel good, about cheering for him. I would, cause I want the Sox to win, but I wouldn't like it. Same for someone like Manny Ramirez. These are talented players, but I can't stand them. It's like selling your soul to win. This guy is a total jagoff , but he'll win you games. Man it's just hard to root for guys like that. Mark has that "it" quality that a lot of people relate to.

 

I don't want his contract to hamper the team for years to come, but if they could get something reasonable done...I would hope they would.

[Dick Allen]

Well, yes. My point was that we're pretty much at our ceiling right now.

How could Javy Vazquez's $11.5 million salary be reasonable on a team whose ceiling for the team is $96 million? He's a #5 starter.

 

We thought we did receive ml-ready talent in Gavin Floyd. So maybe they were off a few months...

Or maybe they were just off.

[WCSox]

How could Javy Vazquez's $11.5 million salary be reasonable on a team whose ceiling for the team is $96 million? He's a #5 #4 starter.

 

Fixed

 

Half of this team's payroll was devoted to its starting rotation last year. Is that unreasonable as well?

[Wanne]

Find a new thread to rehash the same old Freddy for Floyd junk. This thread is about me pleading to keep Mark Buehrle!!

 

My loyalties lie with the Sox and that will never change, but I've really taking a liking to Buehrle. I just love the way he goes about his businesss. He's just a regular guy that can pitch. I like to root for him. I want him to do good. There really aren't many players I feel like that about. I mean, I want them to do good cause they're on the Sox and I want to win, but I can give a s*** about them. I feel good rooting for someone like Mark. I actually feel bad for him when he has a bad outing. I don't know, it's hard to explain. Take Zambrano for example, if he was on the Sox, I wouldn't feel good, about cheering for him. I would, cause I want the Sox to win, but I wouldn't like it. Same for someone like Manny Ramirez. These are talented players, but I can't stand them. It's like selling your soul to win. This guy is a total jagoff , but he'll win you games. Man it's just hard to root for guys like that. Mark has that "it" quality that a lot of people relate to.

 

I don't want his contract to hamper the team for years to come, but if they could get something reasonable done...I would hope they would.

 

Plus...you need to have at least 2 quality starters for your team to build around...Mark being one of them IMO. Whether they keep Garland that remains to be seen. But I'd be happy building this staff around Mark, Garland and Danks for the next 5 years. Mark's a horse...and has been the face of this staff for quite some time. It'd be a shame to lose him over a few mil.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Wanne

[Dick Allen]

Fixed

 

Half of this team's payroll was devoted to its starting rotation last year. Is that unreasonable as well?

Yes. Especially if it means you are going to have to have a bunch of guys making minimum in the bullpen. You pay all this money to the starters then turn it over to the likes of Bukvich or Prinz or Aaardsma or Masset or whoever. Its like giving your 16 year old who just got his license yesterday, the keys to your Bentley. I still think a guy who is going to probably be below .500 with an ERA in the mid to high 4's is a #5 starter on a contending team.

[iamshack]

Yes. Especially if it means you are going to have to have a bunch of guys making minimum in the bullpen. You pay all this money to the starters then turn it over to the likes of Bukvich or Prinz or Aaardsma or Masset or whoever. Its like giving your 16 year old who just got his license yesterday, the keys to your Bentley. I still think a guy who is going to probably be below .500 with an ERA in the mid to high 4's is a #5 starter on a contending team.

 

You've been saying this forever now, and so I am just curious. How do you think good bullpens are built? Do you think they are built by signing expensive guys that performed well last year? Do you think that is how solid bullpens are built? The vast majority of effective pitchers coming out of the pen are closers. The rest are so volatile from year to year that they end up being disasters for the club over the life of the deal. The very few that are relatively inexpensive and consistently effective are so valuable to their clubs that you can't get them unless you are willing to give up a boatload of talent in return.

 

I'm just curious. How do you believe a good bullpen can/should be assembled other than trying to find quality young arms?