Soxplosion Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 this year since Loaizas become our ace, that one of these starts he was just gonna sink back into his career mediocrity. Part of me thinks itll be an easy win, but the other thinks hes gonna be mediocre, just like he always has been. This is only his second bad start this year. Can he get it back together or did he finally lose it? When he got hammered in Seattle, I wondered until his next outting, if he was gone. Now, even tho it may not be likely, Im wondering that again. Im glad to see hes doing so well, but how long can he keep it up? The guys gone like eight years and hes never been very good. Weve gotten lucky, but how long will this luck last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Good thing our REAL ace Mark B is coming through now while Loaiza and Colon struggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 the guy had his second worst start of the season and gave up four runs over seven innings, yet you are questioning him? four runs in seven innings is pretty damn good for a guys second worst start of the season. Loaiza has been doubted since his second start of the season. can we stop doubting him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Good point Molto. Loaiza has been awesome. He gets an A plus right now on the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Like Wright and Colon before him, Loaiza under-used his good fastball, throwing too many sliders and changeups in the zone. Since Grudzie, Gonzalez, Alou, Karros, Hernandez, Miller and Goodwin do not have a lot of batspeed, it only made sense to instill fear of the E-Lo's 91-93mph fastball early on so they couldn't sit on his breat&butter pitch...which they hammered repeatedly btw. At least Wright has terrible release point and severely decreased velocity on his heater (he went from throwing 93-97 his first start from AAA down to 88-90) and Colon was simply out of gas it seems before the game began......what's E-Lo's excuse for not going after normally weak-hitting Cubbies at all? Big mistake in retrospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Loaiza is 11-3 and yet people are doubting him because he loses an occasional game? THE MAN IS NOT INVINCIBLE. He is a human being. We have enough to worry about with a s***ty GM, a s***tier owner, etc. etc. We do not need to waste time wondering if a guy who has pretty regularly been kicking ass and taking names is losing it because he gave up 4 runs in 7 IP. Let's just focus on the ACTUAL problems the Sox are facing and not the paranoid delusions. His ERA is under 3, for f***'s sake. He doesn't need to be doubted like this. I agree with you completely Molto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssHatSoxFan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 geez we jump on loaiza after 4 runs in SEVEN innings i mean if he gave up 4 runs in maybe 4 inning then it is time to fear but it was obvious that he was not at his best and he still managed to pitch decent and his ERA is still less than 2.50 so why all the criticism??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 this year since Loaizas become our ace, that one of these starts he was just gonna sink back into his career mediocrity. Part of me thinks itll be an easy win, but the other thinks hes gonna be mediocre, just like he always has been. This is only his second bad start this year. Can he get it back together or did he finally lose it? When he got hammered in Seattle, I wondered until his next outting, if he was gone. Now, even tho it may not be likely, Im wondering that again. Im glad to see hes doing so well, but how long can he keep it up? The guys gone like eight years and hes never been very good. Weve gotten lucky, but how long will this luck last? Actually Loaiza has been a pretty solid innings eater pitching for some not so great teams. My suggestion for you roman, is not to expect an all-star performance nor an embarasssing one. Loaiza was a great pickup and I have preached that from Day 1 (no, I didn't expect this kind of success). He will be a solid pitcher for the Sox and will keep winning games. Will he be 11-2 in the 2nd half of the season? It's highly doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 He didn't have his best stuff today. It happens, and it's over...and that's the way i'm gonna look at it...better start next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 He has a 4.65 ERA. Hes barely a .500 on his career. Face it. Hes just not that great a pitcher. He does eat innings but you cant take 17 great starts and say hes a great pitcher. It doesnt work that way. I think he should start on the AS team but sooner or later, hes coming back to earth. Its inevitable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Remember when Cal Eldred won 15 games? If it's a fantastic fluke, career year, i'll take it. I don't really care. Will he come back to Earth? Probly a bit. Will he tank the 2nd half? Certainly don't expect him too. This year certainly isn't in line with the rest of his career, which is perfectly fine with Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 He battled his way through 7 innings. Who gives a flying f***? He got outpitched by a better pitcher today....no big deal. No one had good stuff this whole series as far as Sox pitchers go(except Flash in game 1). The fact that we won 2 of 3 is incredible, and the idea that we actually had a shot to sweep is flat out mind-boggling. We had 2 chances to cut the Cubbies lead today late in the game, and we nearly did(Jose just missing a shot). We are starting to play much better and are starting to show life late in games. If the bullpen can hold up, or if we can add some good arms to the pen(someone to replace Glover would be nice), we got a real good shot at this thing. The Twins are doing what we were doing early in the year(if it isn't their starting, it's their bullpen, if it isn't their pitching, it's their hitting, if their pitching and hitting, it's their fielding, and if their starting sucks, well then you can just screw anything else), though they are winning more often because they are good fundamentally, something we are not. I personally see the Twins winning 90 games, or somewhere around that. So now the Sox have their goal....win 62 more games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 He has a 4.65 ERA. Hes barely a .500 on his career. Face it. Hes just not that great a pitcher. He does eat innings but you cant take 17 great starts and say hes a great pitcher. It doesnt work that way. I think he should start on the AS team but sooner or later, hes coming back to earth. Its inevitable... And what's your point? He's pitching great for us this year, and right now, that's all I care about. What's done is done, and there's nothing you can do about it. What hasn't happened is something you can control. He's a good pitcher who I think has actually figured it out. I don't think he's going to be a sub-3.00 ERA pitcher his whole career, but I definately think he can keep it under 3.00 this year, and I definately think he can be a good starter for another 5 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 With that starting pitching, i don't think the Twins will win 90, but we'll see. I like what i've seen from (gulp) White lately. He's been pretty solid...maybe he's starting to turn it around. I didn't know Glover was a member of the White Sox...anyway, if we aren't going to use him...get somebody up here who can eat up some innings...or flash, marte, and koch are going to be dead by the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 He has a 4.65 ERA. Hes barely a .500 on his career. Face it. Hes just not that great a pitcher. He does eat innings but you cant take 17 great starts and say hes a great pitcher. It doesnt work that way. I think he should start on the AS team but sooner or later, hes coming back to earth. Its inevitable... Loaiza was at one time a top prospect and many thought he would become a star. Looks like he's just a late bloomer. Stop your whining. He's 11-3, who cares what happends to him next year. Remember the good ol saying "What have you done for me lately?" CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 With that starting pitching, i don't think the Twins will win 90, but we'll see. I like what i've seen from (gulp) White lately. He's been pretty solid...maybe he's starting to turn it around. I didn't know Glover was a member of the White Sox...anyway, if we aren't going to use him...get somebody up here who can eat up some innings...or flash, marte, and koch are going to be dead by the end of the year. The way I see it, Radke, Mays, and Reed can't possibly pitch as bad as they have all year long. They can only get better. However, those 3 can hardly throw the ball harder then Kelly Wunsch, so we'll see. White is starting to pitch better, and Glover just flat out needs to go. You can't have a bullpen composed of 3 or 4 guys....you need all 6 guys to be very good. Once Wunsch comes back, that will be 5, but he gives us s*** for innings. We need either another starter or another reliever....Wright could potentially be moved to the pen as long as we get a solid starter to fill the rotation. Or we could just do it the easy way and get another reliever. Either way, we get a stronger pen. Glover's stuff just isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 the guy hasn't pitched much at all this season, how can you say he needs to go? Glover needs to be given a legit shot. he's worked once every two weeks and people expect him to just figure things out. as bad as our pen is, you'd think they'd try to see what everyone can do, instead of just sticking with the same three guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Glover needs to be given a legit shot. he's worked once every two weeks and people expect him to just figure things out. Me and you agreed that back in 2001, he used to have both stuff and poise for a 24yo rookie... Since then, however, he lost 3mph on his fastball, his slider is merely ok and his once near-12-to-6 curve is a crush-able hanger more often than not. His change-up is futile. The league has been KILLING him, absulutely eating him alive and, what''s worse, he's been allowing a scary amount of other people's runs virtually every appearance...something which led to his being in Manuel's doghouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 If nothing else is gained from this thread, can we please stop using a pitcher's individual record as a way to evaluate him? That's just about as dumb as using fielding percentage to evaluate a player's defensive prowess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 well, Glover has recently changed his approach and delivery, but has yet to use it. Glover was still strong last year and if he lost anything, it might be from him getting shifted from the rotation to pen as much as he did. even so, just because he's lost something, doesn't mean he can't get it back. And he can't get it back, unless he is used. he's been working on things, let us see what comes from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 well, Glover has recently changed his approach and delivery, but has yet to use it. Glover was still strong last year and if he lost anything, it might be from him getting shifted from the rotation to pen as much as he did. even so, just because he's lost something, doesn't mean he can't get it back. And he can't get it back, unless he is used. he's been working on things, let us see what comes from it. Let's hope you're right on this one...in my defense, he's been atrocious this season both in ERA/WHIP and Inherited Runers Scored... If he ever gains what he lost, it will be grea- he is a workhorse against whom hitters at times had no chance , in his first 8 innings with the Sox back in 01, he gave up like 1 hit, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 if he doesn't figure it out this season, send him to the minors and work with him. I still think he can come back around, if not this season, next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 He has a 4.65 ERA. Hes barely a .500 on his career. Face it. Hes just not that great a pitcher. He does eat innings but you cant take 17 great starts and say hes a great pitcher. It doesnt work that way. I think he should start on the AS team but sooner or later, hes coming back to earth. Its inevitable... Its sad, one start and the wind direction has already switched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 well, Glover has recently changed his approach and delivery, but has yet to use it. Glover was still strong last year and if he lost anything, it might be from him getting shifted from the rotation to pen as much as he did. even so, just because he's lost something, doesn't mean he can't get it back. And he can't get it back, unless he is used. he's been working on things, let us see what comes from it. Let's hope you're right on this one...in my defense, he's been atrocious this season both in ERA/WHIP and Inherited Runers Scored... If he ever gains what he lost, it will be grea- he is a workhorse against whom hitters at times had no chance , in his first 8 innings with the Sox back in 01, he gave up like 1 hit, lol The guy just isn't going to be able to stay sharp as little as he has pitched. period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I dunno why you guys are surprised at this post by the resident windsock. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he didn't do it after his first loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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