And That's A White Sox Loser

[BearSox]

speaking of Andruw Jones, how many millions do you think he will still get after finishing the year batting something like .215?

[GreenSox]

Look at the lineup Ozzie wheels out there game after game - every hacker, slapper and grinder you can imagine; this team is so obviously overmatched that it begs for high ceiling call-ups. But why play them when hackers like Cintron, Mack and Gonzales can cover the positions?

 

Pinch hit for Cintron? ARe you kidding - it's Cintron who does the pinch hitting on this ballclub. I expect Cintron to bat cleanup tomorrow. Minus 2 injured slappers, this is the team ozzie wanted - hackers and slappers up and down the lineup: the result? 10 below, 10 out with 60% left to play.

Edited June 20, 2007 by GreenSox

[The Ginger Kid]

I can't believe some of you are so convinced that a fire sale will heal this team in the future. Unproven talent is just, unproven. While I agree it would be a waste not to deal some dead weight before the deadline, I just not convinced it's going to pan out. Wasn't Jeremy Reed our number one prospect for awhile?

[DBAHO]

Well it's just getting sad now.

 

There's almost a sense of inevitibility, anytime the Sox lead by a run or 2 in the closing innings, that the other team is going to catch up.

 

We had the feeling in 2005, that we would catch up, when we would get those clutch hits, and the bullpen would do the job.

 

Now it's the complete opposite.

 

Coop's done some pretty solid work getting Buehrle to rebound and Garland to have another good season, but right now he doesn't have much else going for him. And unless that turns around, well he might have to worry about his job security as Walker is doing now.

 

What the bullpen is serving up, day after day, is totally 100% unacceptable. KW's loaded up on power arms which is all well and good, but if your secondary stuff isn't good enough, hitters are going to clue in on what our relievers are going to toss up, and we're paying the cost.

[Kalapse]

I can't believe some of you are so convinced that a fire sale will heal this team in the future. Unproven talent is just, unproven. While I agree it would be a waste not to deal some dead weight before the deadline, I just not convinced it's going to pan out. Wasn't Jeremy Reed our number one prospect for awhile?

No one is convinced it'll end up alright, if Firesales were 100% guaranteed to turn around your ballclub then every team in baseball would have one every 4 years or so. At this point though, the old, mediocre deadweight needs to be sold off for unproven but highly talented young players. There is no other acceptable recourse.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

I think the point of a fire sale is not so much to improve the team this year as to get some of these guys out of here, load up on prospects, and make room for next year's new acquisitions. Nothing could fix this s*** heep of a team.

[greg775]

Iguchi, Cintron, Mackowiak, Dye and most of the current bullpen need to be traded before the deadline.

 

Buehrle needs to be re-signed and Garland extended.

 

Contreras and/or Vazquez should be shopped before the deadline as well.

 

Just win the next three games then get ready for '08.

 

And we trust KW to get good impact players for these guys DURING the season?

The guys we get in these trades will be vital to our team's future.

No way he can pull it off now.

He'll have to trade them in the offseason.

I'd only trade one "key" player now.

Whether it be Dye or Contreras.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Juan Uribe is a human pile of waste. Even when he hits for the first time in a month, he can't field. And then we left Garland in too long, he was saved to end the 7th by the great defensive play but was running out of fuel. And then Bobby Jenks gives up a 3 run homer to JASON WOOD?!??! Plus, our manager concludes today is a good day to try and make our closer get a 6 out save, AND decides to leave him in for the 9th after the cat is out of the bag. And our lack of talent showed today too.

 

Today's loss showed off everything wrong with our team right now which is, well everything except our starting pitching and Josh Fields right now, with Mackowiak, Terrero, and A.J. being adequate as well. Maybe if the Cubs sweep us and it becomes over a month without a series win, somebody loses their job. But I doubt it.

I wonder too what clip that far more talented team that missed the playoffs played at too.

 

I actually think Uribe gets a free pass around here. "Atleast Juan gives you defense." Juan hasn't been a good defensive player for about a year now. He's lackadasical (I think I spelled that wrong) and lazy as hell. Soxtalk loves to bash Podsednik, but atleast he always gives his all when he's playing. Can't say the same for Uribe.

[witesoxfan]

I actually think Uribe gets a free pass around here. "Atleast Juan gives you defense." Juan hasn't been a good defensive player for about a year now. He's lackadasical (I think I spelled that wrong) and lazy as hell. Soxtalk loves to bash Podsednik, but atleast he always gives his all when he's playing. Can't say the same for Uribe.

 

I'm sure most metrics will still show that he is one of the better defensive shortstops in the AL. That means nothing when he's hitting .200.

 

Beyond that, saying that Podsednik gave his all when he was playing is flat out lying. The guy took more strike 3 calls than like anyone in the history of the world and didn't bust ass down the line as a leadoff hitter. And, unlike with Uribe, there are replacements within the organization and around baseball that can be acquired rather cheaply for left field. I'd just as soon call up the Mets and see if we could acquire Fernando Tatis and stick him in LF. For shortstop, it's a bit harder.

 

Add to it that shortstop is probably the most important position defensively, and you have your reason as to why Uribe gets a "free pass" as you call it. From everything I've ever seen from this board, however, Uribe does not get that free pass because he is simply good defensively, but it has much more to do with the replacement situation.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm sure most metrics will still show that he is one of the better defensive shortstops in the AL. That means nothing when he's hitting .200.

 

Beyond that, saying that Podsednik gave his all when he was playing is flat out lying. The guy took more strike 3 calls than like anyone in the history of the world and didn't bust ass down the line as a leadoff hitter. And, unlike with Uribe, there are replacements within the organization and around baseball that can be acquired rather cheaply for left field. I'd just as soon call up the Mets and see if we could acquire Fernando Tatis and stick him in LF. For shortstop, it's a bit harder.

 

Add to it that shortstop is probably the most important position defensively, and you have your reason as to why Uribe gets a "free pass" as you call it. From everything I've ever seen from this board, however, Uribe does not get that free pass because he is simply good defensively, but it has much more to do with the replacement situation.

 

Wite, please spare me sabermetrics and all that garbage. Juan is f***in' lazy. This goes all the way back to last year. There's no way around that fact. He doesn't even use his body when he throws. What happened yesterday was pathetic, and he should be benched for the next week. And since when does taking strike 3 mean you're not trying? He would be trying if he swung and missed? Jim Thome takes a lot of strike 3 calls. Is he not trying? When a player takes a strike 3 he's obviously either not seeing the ball or he's getting fooled. And I could care less about which position is harder. That wasn't the point. I'll call out ANYBODY that I feel is giving a half-assed effort. And that's what Juan has been doing since last year.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Jordan4life_2007

[WHarris1]

Saying Pods gives it all post-2005 is just not true at all. Dude dogs it to first regularly.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Saying Pods gives it all post-2005 is just not true at all. Dude dogs it to first regularly.

 

I don't recall. Maybe it looks that way since he's been at way less than 100% for over a year now. But I never got the idea Pods wasn't trying. What were the odds that he was going to make it for opening day? Not only this year, but last year as well. That doesn't sound like a guy who's loafing to me.

[witesoxfan]

Wite, please spare me sabermetrics and all that garbage. Juan is f***in' lazy. This goes all the way back to last year. There's no way around that fact. He doesn't even use his body when he throws. What happened yesterday was pathetic, and he should be benched for the next week. And since when does taking strike 3 mean you're not trying? He would be trying if he swung and missed? Jim Thome takes a lot of strike 3 calls. Is he not trying? When a player takes a strike 3 he's obviously either not seeing the ball or he's getting fooled. And I could care less about which position is harder. That wasn't the point. I'll call out ANYBODY that I feel is giving a half-assed effort. And that's what Juan has been doing since last year.

 

I didn't give you sabermetrics; I'm not sure they technically exist in fielding. Before Crede went down, he and Uribe had some of the best range in the hole of any combo in the majors. Perhaps he may be a bit weaker going up the middle, but he's overall a good defensive shortstop. He's not Ozzie Smith, but he's not a turd. All I was suggesting by saying "metrics" was that you can look at any type of fielding measurement other than fielding percentage and errors and determine that Juan Uribe is a pretty damn good defensive shortstop.

 

Jim Thome strikes out a ton; he doesn't strike out looking nearly as often as Podsednik did, and their jobs are entirely different. Pods job is to score runs, Jim's is to drive in runs. If Jim ledoff, I guarantee he would shorten his swing a ton and would try and just put bat on ball; because that's not his job, he tries to kill the ball every time he swings the bat, and thus misses a lot. He also has the outstanding ability to draw a walk too, partly because of his power.

 

And yes, swinging and missing strike 3 is trying, because atleast there's a chance in hell that you can continue your AB. If the ball is right down the middle, and you don't swing, what chance do you have of seeing another pitch?

 

And if a player is getting fooled that often, blame is placed squarely upon the player, the coaches, and the front office; the front office for allowing such a s***ty player to be anywhere near the roster, the coaches for having such a s***ty player leading off, and the player for not being prepared for what the pitcher is going to be coming at him with. That was Pods quite a bit last year, and those are the 3 groups that deserve entire blame in the situation.

 

Finally, you can call out any player you please; all I was saying was that the reason Juan receives your so-called "free pass" is because the 2nd best shortstop in the White Sox organization is that of little range, no arm, no bat Alex Cintron. Would you rather have Cintron play SS?

[Jordan4life_2007]

I didn't give you sabermetrics; I'm not sure they technically exist in fielding. Before Crede went down, he and Uribe had some of the best range in the hole of any combo in the majors. Perhaps he may be a bit weaker going up the middle, but he's overall a good defensive shortstop. He's not Ozzie Smith, but he's not a turd. All I was suggesting by saying "metrics" was that you can look at any type of fielding measurement other than fielding percentage and errors and determine that Juan Uribe is a pretty damn good defensive shortstop.

 

Jim Thome strikes out a ton; he doesn't strike out looking nearly as often as Podsednik did, and their jobs are entirely different. Pods job is to score runs, Jim's is to drive in runs. If Jim ledoff, I guarantee he would shorten his swing a ton and would try and just put bat on ball; because that's not his job, he tries to kill the ball every time he swings the bat, and thus misses a lot. He also has the outstanding ability to draw a walk too, partly because of his power.

 

And yes, swinging and missing strike 3 is trying, because atleast there's a chance in hell that you can continue your AB. If the ball is right down the middle, and you don't swing, what chance do you have of seeing another pitch?

 

And if a player is getting fooled that often, blame is placed squarely upon the player, the coaches, and the front office; the front office for allowing such a s***ty player to be anywhere near the roster, the coaches for having such a s***ty player leading off, and the player for not being prepared for what the pitcher is going to be coming at him with. That was Pods quite a bit last year, and those are the 3 groups that deserve entire blame in the situation.

 

Finally, you can call out any player you please; all I was saying was that the reason Juan receives your so-called "free pass" is because the 2nd best shortstop in the White Sox organization is that of little range, no arm, no bat Alex Cintron. Would you rather have Cintron play SS?

 

If Juan is going to go half-assed, I'd rather YOU play SS. Who cares that we don't have any better replacements. That gives him the right to loaf? What we saw yesterday was pathetic. He needs to be called out. If you're going to be the worst offensive regular in the league, you better damn well give 100% every second of every game. There's a difference between talent and effort. If you just suck, you suck. I can live with that. But effort is something that should always be there. And Wite, do you really think I'm comparing Thome and Podsednik? I don't think a guy that takes strike 3 looking is not trying. He might look stupid. But I'm sure Pods doesn't go up there saying "hey, I'm gonna battle for 5-6 pitches. Wait until I get two strikes on me, then take strike 3 looking."

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

This thread has a familiar theme too.

[Guest]

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