Phil Rogers Details Kenny's Failures

[SadChiSoxFanOptimist]

/sports/columnists/cs-070624rogers,1,4693547.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

All the wrong moves

Phil Rogers

On Baseball

 

June 25, 2007

 

"Win fast, White Sox."

 

That's what I wrote on the day the White Sox traded Freddy Garcia to the Philadelphia Phillies, receiving two players who didn't seem likely to help what ailed Ozzie Guillen's team so soon after the World Series parade.

 

In that column, I also referred to Williams' thinking as "arrogant," specifically how he thought he could rebuild another championship rotation rather than persuading Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf to hold onto Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland for the long haul.

 

When I saw the fellows the next day, it's fair to say they weren't exactly congratulating me for my insight. It reminded me of the reaction I got from the Cubs a year earlier.

 

That time I pointed out how it was crazy to send three young pitchers to the Florida Marlins for a one-year rental on the overrated Juan Pierre, as well as how Jim Hendry did Jacque Jones a favor by giving him a three-year contract -- a move that also cost the organization a high pick in the 2006 draft.

 

So here the Cubs are, less than a year and a half into the Jones debacle, on the verge of releasing him (he appeared for one half-inning in the weekend sweep, pinch-running for the designated hitter in the ninth on Friday) while Williams shops Buehrle for a punch-in-the-gut trade. I'll admit I wish I had been wrong when I wrote those things.

 

Back in 2004 and '05, the Cubs and White Sox were both over .500 for three of the four renewals of the City Series. This year's blahfests at U.S. Cellular and Wrigley Field make those years seem a long time ago.

 

When even China doll Scott Podsednik is pointing out the lack of "intensity" and "energy" at U.S. Cellular Field, something has gone dreadfully wrong. There are no easy answers in sight for either of Chicago's teams, as the soft portion of both their schedules ended Sunday. They no longer get to face each other.

 

The success of major-league teams, or lack thereof, depends more on the general manager and the front office than the guy making the decisions in the dugout. Ozzie Guillen and Lou Piniella shouldn't be held accountable for these disappointing seasons.

 

The responsibility lies with Williams and Hendry, even if it's only Hendry who is in danger of losing his job.

 

Williams, like a dice shooter on a hot roll, made a flurry of moves, big and small, that resulted in that 11-1 run through the 2005 playoffs. He works for a loyal boss, whom he declines to challenge on matters like the Buehrle and Garland contracts, so he doesn't have to worry about security. Jerry Krause ran the Bulls into the ground for five years after the last of the six titles.

 

But his failings in a variety of areas have contributed to the Sox now having fallen 22 games under .500 since July 7, 2006, as long a run of bad baseball as this franchise has had since 1989.

 

For instance:

 

Trading Garcia (for pitchers Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez) and 23-year-old Brandon McCarthy (for pitchers John Danks, Nick Masset and Jacob Rasner) without addressing the three spots in the lineup that left them out of the running in 2006. That's left field, center field and shortstop. Those spots have under-produced again this season, and the 3-4-5 hitters are no longer the best middle of the order in baseball. The simultaneous occurrence of these events has created a run-scoring drought.

 

You can't quantify this one, but by signing the two most easily signed starters, Jose Contreras and "Hang With 'Em" Javier Vazquez, the White Sox might have become the first team in history to build around the back end of their starting rotation. Despite 52 sellouts and record broadcast ratings a year ago, they made only token efforts to lock up Buehrle and Jermaine Dye, without whom they would not have won the '05 Series. Sox players seldom publicly criticize Reinsdorf or Williams, but the callous handling of Buehrle has taken a toll.

 

Not having the guts to offer Magglio Ordonez salary arbitration when they were feuding with him over the severity of his knee injury. Somebody was going to sign Ordonez, who didn't want to stick with an organization that had been smearing him, but the White Sox didn't vest themselves for two compensation picks in the draft. Among the prospects selected in either the compensation round or the second round in 2005: Oakland outfielder Travis Buck, Atlanta infielder Yunel Escobar, Minnesota right-hander Kevin Slowey and right-hander Mike Bowden, who has climbed into Double A at age 20 for Boston and is now coveted by the White Sox in Buehrle trade talks.

 

Failing to trade Joe Crede to the Angels, Phillies or someone else last winter, when he and the talented Josh Fields gave the organization a third-base surplus. Given Crede's recent back surgery, the guess here is that Williams will non-tender him next season, not exactly the way a World Series hero should go out.

 

Taking a flier on Andrew Sisco. The guy had a 7.10 ERA in 65 games for Kansas City, and Williams thought he could help a good team? While keeping such fringe players on his 40-man roster (not to mention the redoubtable Eduardo Sierra and Paulino Reynoso), he has lost homegrown left-handers Jay Marshall and Fabio Castro in the Rule 5 draft the last two seasons.

 

Creating a disconnect with the amateur and pro scouts who had worked well with his predecessor, Ron Schueler, in building the strong farm system that Williams once oversaw. Follow Williams around the winter meetings and he is never far from assistant GM Rick Hahn and his stats guy, Dan Fabian; somehow I'd feel better if he was spending time with the guys who have gristle, like Dave Yoakum and Doug Laumann. The sacking of Duane Shaffer was a long time coming as he felt Williams tuned him out, seeking players he could take credit for getting.

 

Taking a bite of Vazquez's apple. When Arizona offered Williams a chance to get rid of two signed veterans he wanted to move (Orlando Hernandez and Luis Vizcaino) while getting a starter with upside in return, the White Sox couldn't say no. But if something looks too good to be true, it probably is. Williams knew he was giving up a solid prospect in center fielder Chris Young; he didn't know his three other young outfielders (Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney and Jerry Owens) would pale in comparison. Copyright © 2007, The Chicago Tribune

 

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[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Rogers has flip-flopped on the Garcia and McCarthy trades several times now. If you searched the Tribune archives, about 6 weeks ago he wrote a column saying 'I admit I was wrong to criticize these moves.' Screw him.

[daa84]

Rogers has flip-flopped on the Garcia and McCarthy trades several times now. If you searched the Tribune archives, about 6 weeks ago he wrote a column saying 'I admit I was wrong to criticize these moves.' Screw him.

yeah honestly both of those trades look like we won right now....floyd is pitching well in AAA and looks like he will fill in for buerhle once he leaves...add in that gio has established himself probably as a top 20 pitching prospect in teh game....and obviously danks alone looks like a better pitcher than mccarthy...

 

he does have a point thought that KW did fail to address other needs, but you certainly cant blame him for doing those two trades, and saving 9 million dollars in doing so

[The Critic]

Hindsight and selective memory are REALLY easy.

[DBAHO]

The Ordonez situation you can understand. You couldn't offer him arbitration and risk him accepting it coming off that knee surgery.

 

Plus not re-signing him allowed us to fill other needs and help us win that World Series in 2005.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

KW has failed a number of times, but this artcile seems to have missed many of them. KW didn't fill holes despite all the sellouts and ratings, but the Freddy dump most of us support.

[Steve9347]

Phil Rogers needs to go away.

[southsideirish]

The only thing in this article that I agree with is not being able to fill the need of SS, LF, and CF.

[GoSox05]

I think its easy to look back and say you should have done this of that. If KW trades Crede, Roger's would have been all over him.

 

I tend to agree with most KW's trades. I also think he needs to fill the SS role and outfield needs to be fixed.

Edited June 25, 2007 by GoSox05

[michelangelosmonkey]

This is a ridiculous attack from PR. There were two possibilities with this team...they were a championship team that needed a bit of tweeking as I think KW and most of us thought...or they were an aging team that had played better than expected the last few years and were due a run of bad luck as people like Baseball Prospectus thought. What KW did in the off season made a lot of sense given what he thought. Replace a poor bullpen with a bunch of power arms...have Coop fix the Sisco's and Aardsmas of the world like he did Thornton the year before (people forget how horrible Seattle thought Thornton was). I admit I didn't like the Pods/Erstad moves...but they were cheap and I figured Brian Anderson would be better and maybe Sweeney would come up and make a slick fielding outfield that was learning how to hit. Toby Hall was a good move as was lefty killer Perez. But then they didn't keep perez. Ozzie hated Brian Anderson. Toby Hall got hurt. Crede got hurt. Thome got hurt. Dye is having his career down year after his career up year. Konerko proves again when he has to he can't carry a team. Iguchi's looking old. Two years ago everything Kenny did turned out right...now not so much. Still if someone wants to trash KW...after the 2000 season KW took over as GM. His team was the youngest team in the majors, had just won more games than anyone in the AL plus he had the #1 rated minor league system according to BA. He was a teenager that was given the keys to a Ferrari. And yes he had some wrecks along the way...and bad luck. But he showed he was willing to do anything to win a WS...and by the way...HE DID. I like Kenny...I think he's getting better as a GM. If one wants to fault him...fault him for 2001-2004.

[jackie hayes]

Rogers has flip-flopped on the Garcia and McCarthy trades several times now. If you searched the Tribune archives, about 6 weeks ago he wrote a column saying 'I admit I was wrong to criticize these moves.' Screw him.

Actually, if you look at that article ("Sox make right call on Garcia, McCarthy"), he somehow forgot to mention what his initial reaction was. Probably just an oversight.

 

He's just a windsock.

[striker]

KW has failed a number of times, but this artcile seems to have missed many of them. KW didn't fill holes despite all the sellouts and ratings, but the Freddy dump most of us support.

 

What GM hasn't? He won a title, which is the goal. So shut up.

[elrockinMT]

It's interesting to note that many of the trades made have helped us for maybe one season and then they flop. We got lucky in 2005 when they came together. If you have starst on the club like Crede, Buerhle and Dye then you try and keep them and build around them and not treade for unknowns or playhers who have struggled somewhere else and then expect a miracle turnaround. Plus a few games or a few weeks is not the way to gauge success. We got real excited on this board when Massett pitched a so so start and called for him to be palced in the rotation. Things went south pretty quick though. I remember KW and Ozzie saying that ther bigs were not a place to learn the game and we wanted players who would produce. I have to say we haven't seen much from these prospects we picked up, but we have a lot of young players and clerly they aren't ready. I still thank them for 2005 though.

[Dick Allen]

2005 was a great year for KW. His plans A and B and probably C were unable to come to fruition and he benefitted from that. He was lucky the Angels waived Jenks. He was lucky the Yankees made a last minute outbid for Wright. He was lucky AJ fell into his lap, he was lucky Kaz Matsui sucked in 2004 causing Iguchi to be available for far less. You can't fault him for being lucky, but that doesn't necessarily make him the baseball genius he thinks he is or several people believe him to be. You get a lot of crap from this board when you disagree with anything KW does. Its sort of like back in the day saying anything bad about Ditka to a lot of Bears fans. The fact is, the White Sox for one reason or another have only lived up to or surpassed expectations 1 time in KW's 7 season reign. He has made plenty of mistakes. For example waiting to make any changes this season is a mistake. It won't show up as one, but it should. Andy Gonzalez shouldn't be on a major league roster let alone batting second or leading off. KW has failed. The minor leagues suck and since he's been GM for 7 seasons, the failure shouldn't all fall on Shaffer.

[heirdog]

Is it fair to say that Chris Young is better that BA, Sweeney and Owens at this point? Also, if it took Chris Young to get the trade done, then the comparison should be Vasquez + one of the 3 guys above vs. El Duque and Chris Young in the rotation and line-up respectively and I think I would take the Vasquez and one of the guys above. The unfortunate part is that we don't get one of the 3 above consistently, we get Terrero, Gonzalez, Erstad and Mackowiak.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

What GM hasn't? He won a title, which is the goal. So shut up.

 

Maybe you can name call too, instead of trying to make an intelligent point.

[Soxfest]

KW sitting on his hands ALL winter not filling holes caught up with Mr.Smugass.

[chisoxt]

2005 was a great year for KW. His plans A and B and probably C were unable to come to fruition and he benefitted from that. He was lucky the Angels waived Jenks. He was lucky the Yankees made a last minute outbid for Wright. He was lucky AJ fell into his lap, he was lucky Kaz Matsui sucked in 2004 causing Iguchi to be available for far less. You can't fault him for being lucky, but that doesn't necessarily make him the baseball genius he thinks he is or several people believe him to be. You get a lot of crap from this board when you disagree with anything KW does. Its sort of like back in the day saying anything bad about Ditka to a lot of Bears fans. The fact is, the White Sox for one reason or another have only lived up to or surpassed expectations 1 time in KW's 7 season reign. He has made plenty of mistakes. For example waiting to make any changes this season is a mistake. It won't show up as one, but it should. Andy Gonzalez shouldn't be on a major league roster let alone batting second or leading off. KW has failed. The minor leagues suck and since he's been GM for 7 seasons, the failure shouldn't all fall on Shaffer.

 

Agreed. I told someone after the 2005 season that one drawback of winning it all that year was that we would have to put up with KW for an eternity. He constant man-crushes for over-the-hill players like Thome, the Alomar Brothers, Everett and Vasquez have made the team older slower, more expensive and injury prone. His minor league system is a joke and has been for years. Please don't throw that BS line about nor having high draft pickes. There are several teams that have consistently finished higher than the Sox the last several years bt flat out have better farm systems(Oakland, Boston and Minnesota).

 

And with the renewed fiscal insanty returing to baseball, there are now noises that the Sox won't budge on giving Beuhrle a five year deal. If you are going to be an organization that doesn't not have the poker chips to play in the high stakes free agent games, you better damn well have a quality farm system. For Williams to recognize this after being on the job for six years is inexcusable.

[WCSox]

What GM hasn't? He won a title, which is the goal.

 

Agreed. KW may be far from a genius, but he made the right moves leading up to 2005. Given this organization's post-season history, THAT carries more weight than anything else.

 

And LOL and the Maggs and Crede analysis. Rogers should take his 20/20 hindsight and start his own psychic hotline.

Edited June 25, 2007 by WCSox

[Chisoxfn]

Ya, I really can't bite on the Crede thing. Yes right now it would have been the right call but I know in the off-season my personal stance was that if you got a very strong offer move him, if you didn't, keep him.

 

I didn't see Crede falling a part and with Dye likely moving on (this was the off-season thought process) you could have had hope that Crede would continue his progression and you could maybe come to accords and sign him to an extension (if you couldn't, you could always move him during the season or in the following off-season).

 

The Angels were probably the only team putting much out there for Crede and I don't think talks ever got too serious because I think at that point the Angels were not going to bite and give up what the Sox would have wanted.

 

You can also talk about dealing Garland, but Pence wasn't part of the deal (right now I'd be excited to have a guy like Pence, but at the same time Garland has been freaking fantastic for the Sox...unfortunately the club has no offense, bullpen and a stupid defense).

[Gregory Pratt]

Maggs' situation was the right move by us. Crede? We failed. It was pretty obvious something was up with his back worse than before, IMO. He's an idiot to say, "We should've made a harder effort to re-sign World Series heroes Buehrle and Dye." I've said it since last offseason: re-signing Dye would be a huge mistake.

[Balta1701]

Maggs' situation was the right move by us. Crede? We failed. It was pretty obvious something was up with his back worse than before, IMO. He's an idiot to say, "We should've made a harder effort to re-sign World Series heroes Buehrle and Dye." I've said it since last offseason: re-signing Dye would be a huge mistake.

Of course, the question with Mr. Crede is always; yes, we should have known something was up with his back, but so should any scout of any team we could have tried to deal him to. And especially when Boras's folks got involved in terms of making health decisions, that probably should have scared teams off even more.

[daa84]

Is it fair to say that Chris Young is better that BA, Sweeney and Owens at this point? Also, if it took Chris Young to get the trade done, then the comparison should be Vasquez + one of the 3 guys above vs. El Duque and Chris Young in the rotation and line-up respectively and I think I would take the Vasquez and one of the guys above. The unfortunate part is that we don't get one of the 3 above consistently, we get Terrero, Gonzalez, Erstad and Mackowiak.

owens is simply not a prospect....certainly not in the light of chris young and ryan sweeney.....anderson is a mess right now and in danger of losing his status as a future major leaguer....it is certainly fair to say young is better than owens and anderson....maybe not sweeney as much, but given the choice straight up 30/30 GMs would take young over sweeney.....that said sweeney could turn out to be the better player, but thats unlikely

[greg775]

He made a good point. The Sox didn't address the issues that made them a non contender in 06.

So in that regard it was a right on article.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He made a good point. The Sox didn't address the issues that made them a non contender in 06.

So in that regard it was a right on article.

The addressed them. They just didn't get the results they were hoping for. CF Erstad replaced Brian Anderson. LF - Pods was supposed to be healthy and be a quality leadoff man. The entire bullpen was revamped. There were changes. Issues were addressed. Horrible results. You can argue the result part, but you can't really say that they didn't address it and you can't say KW sat on his hands all winter. He made a lot of moves. I guess you can say they didn't go after a replacement for Pods, but that's it.