Sox Will Continue to Say No

[jackie hayes]

Some posts have implied, but I am curious. Are there any other teams openly opposed to dealing with Boras?

It gets mentioned with Baltimore, but they lust after Teixera and just drafted Wieters, so they're definitely willing to make exceptions. Obviously Matt Bush went 1 bc Boras was repping Weaver and Drew. Not sure if that's still true for SD.

[Chisoxfn]

Interesting. If more teams besides the White Sox (and possibly Dodgers) were more opposed to Borass clients, he may have a more difficult time being the "super agent". Until then, the White Sox are missing an attractive portion of the market. ... Or his clients may be missing playing in a great situation.

As long as the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Cubs and to a lesser extent Angels, Tigers and Cards are willing to deal with you than you really are still a super agent. The bottom line is Boras clients typically are going to get major bucks and when that is the place the likely destination is inevitably to pretty much these places and these places only (with the rare exceptions such as the Mariners going heft for Adrian Beltre).

 

Obviously not all the guys he reps are like that but the vast majority that he hard lines with are.

[caulfield12]

I agree with what you have to say. It should be on a case by case basis. But everything I ever read was that JR and KW will not deal with Boras at all. I just don't agree with that. Especially if teams like Detroit who are in your division are gonna go ahead and deal with Boras.

 

Just curious, but was there ever any scuttlebutt about Dombrowski coming back to be the GM of the White Sox, as he started his career with the Sox front office?

 

I know it's about as logical as bringing back Tony LaRussa, just curious...

 

Also, maybe we should look at Kim Ng, who will be the first female GM in MLB history, is a Univ. of Chicago graduate and likewise started her career as an intern with the White Sox. She finished 2nd to Colletti for the Dodgers' job and was Asst. GM in New York with Cashman.

 

Looking back, the I-Rod contract with DD was the defining moment...along with getting a much better player than expected in Carlos Guillen. Of course years of horrendous playing putting Verlander in your lap don't help, but there were plenty of Munsons, Penas, Cornejos, Easleys and Higginsons to go around too. The Kenny Rogers signing came back to haunt the Sox directly, not once, but twice...in 2003 w/ the Twins and 2006 with the Tigers. KW passed two times on him, and he was VERY affordable in 2003, when we died without that 5th starter.

[Chisoxfn]

It gets mentioned with Baltimore, but they lust after Teixera and just drafted Wieters, so they're definitely willing to make exceptions. Obviously Matt Bush went 1 bc Boras was repping Weaver and Drew. Not sure if that's still true for SD.

A lot of talk that the Orioles took Weiters partly to open up/establish a relationship with Boras in preparation for the mega contract they will offer Tex.

 

Weiters is a stud too, well worthy of where he was drafted (best catching prospect since Mauer).

 

Didn't realize that he has nothing to do with the one-year deals prior to FA, although it makes sense.

 

I can understand why the Sox wouldn't want to negotiate with Boras after drafting a high pick (e.g., Jeff Weaver), but if I were KW I'd just bite the bullet when it comes to the signing bonus, knowing that they're saving a ton of money by not negotiating with Boras during FA.

I think the Sox were more upset with the Bobby Seay situation. Boras basically maneuvered around the system and the end result was Seay getting a fat deal to spurn the Sox and sign with the Devil Rays.

 

Edit: At least I think it was Boras that rep'd Seay at the time.

[Dick Allen]

A lot of talk that the Orioles took Weiters partly to open up/establish a relationship with Boras in preparation for the mega contract they will offer Tex.

 

Weiters is a stud too, well worthy of where he was drafted (best catching prospect since Mauer).

I think the Sox were more upset with the Bobby Seay situation. Boras basically maneuvered around the system and the end result was Seay getting a fat deal to spurn the Sox and sign with the Devil Rays.

 

Edit: At least I think it was Boras that rep'd Seay at the time.

Yeah, I think Seay was the straw that broke the camel's back. In retrospect, Boras did the Sox a favor with that one though.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

As long as the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Cubs and to a lesser extent Angels, Tigers and Cards are willing to deal with you than you really are still a super agent. The bottom line is Boras clients typically are going to get major bucks and when that is the place the likely destination is inevitably to pretty much these places and these places only (with the rare exceptions such as the Mariners going heft for Adrian Beltre).

 

Obviously not all the guys he reps are like that but the vast majority that he hard lines with are.

 

The nice thing is that this off season, I don't see many of your listed teams spending big except the usual culprits (Yanks and Sawks). Cards have been crying poor the last few off seasons. Cubs have their hands tied somewhat with an impending sale. I don't see the Angels as needing to spend a ton of money. And just a hunch, the Tiger don't have a lot of holes and the are not going to go to Yankee level payroll. Borass may have some limits this off season. It will be really interesting to see what happens if ARod files.

 

Speaking of which, are the Rangers abstainers from Boras clients since the Arod debacle? I can't think of any exceptions.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah, I think Seay was the straw that broke the camel's back. In retrospect, Boras did the Sox a favor with that one though.

Definitely. I still find it funny that he eventually worked his way back from being a mega bust and is now a semi decent reliever for the Tigers (but god the Sox got lucky on that one cause that would have been the original Joe borchard like bust).

 

However, the one thing that tends to bother me is that if the Sox get burned just once doing something, they tend to shy away from it for a long long time. Case in point, they pretty much will never offer another draft pick over slot money thanks to Joe Borchard not panning out (however, you know in advance that the draft is a crap shoot, however, you still have to know the more you spend both on your scouts as well as on being willing to give more money to players, enables you to have a far better player development system).

 

I should also say the Sox are not known to be a "cheap" organization in terms of the draft but they also aren't the Angels (who consistently invest in picks, including those high impact projected top couple round guys that slide due to strong commits or high salary demands). I would love to see the Sox take guys like Jordan Danks (first round talent that slid or the guy they took around the 20th round this year) and convert a couple of them and get them signed for top couple of round money (ie you give a 20th rounder projected to go top 2 rounds the amount he would have gotten had he went there) because it would essentially allow you to have more first round picks than you otherwise did.

 

The nice thing is that this off season, I don't see many of your listed teams spending big except the usual culprits (Yanks and Sawks). Cards have been crying poor the last few off seasons. Cubs have their hands tied somewhat with an impending sale. I don't see the Angels as needing to spend a ton of money. And just a hunch, the Tiger don't have a lot of holes and the are not going to go to Yankee level payroll. Borass may have some limits this off season. It will be really interesting to see what happens if ARod files.

 

Speaking of which, are the Rangers abstainers from Boras clients since the Arod debacle? I can't think of any exceptions.

Well Tex is a Boras client and I think I'm missing one or two other guys that they have. They definitely did get burned pretty badly by Boras though so I wouldn't be shocked if they did start straying from them (considering how much bigger the Rangers offer was than any other team...but again it is ownership and management that eventually agrees to meet Boras demands).

[caulfield12]

Who were some of the other Boras clients we failed to sign that were relatively high picks?

 

Bobby Hill? Good move.

 

AJ Hinch? Once again.

 

Jeff Weaver? Not a big Weaver fan on many levels.

 

I saw a list of three guys in one of the Chicago papers but couldn't remember specifically, just taking stabs in the dark.

[Kalapse]

Tom Hicks is a complete dips***, he'll never stop signing Boras clients because he's in love with overpriced talent. Just last year he gave Kevin Millwood (a Boras Client) a 5 year, $60M contract. HEY! Another 5 year contract that appears to have been a bad idea!

[caulfield12]

Definitely. I still find it funny that he eventually worked his way back from being a mega bust and is now a semi decent reliever for the Tigers (but god the Sox got lucky on that one cause that would have been the original Joe borchard like bust).

 

However, the one thing that tends to bother me is that if the Sox get burned just once doing something, they tend to shy away from it for a long long time. Case in point, they pretty much will never offer another draft pick over slot money thanks to Joe Borchard not panning out (however, you know in advance that the draft is a crap shoot, however, you still have to know the more you spend both on your scouts as well as on being willing to give more money to players, enables you to have a far better player development system).

 

I should also say the Sox are not known to be a "cheap" organization in terms of the draft but they also aren't the Angels (who consistently invest in picks, including those high impact projected top couple round guys that slide due to strong commits or high salary demands). I would love to see the Sox take guys like Jordan Danks (first round talent that slid or the guy they took around the 20th round this year) and convert a couple of them and get them signed for top couple of round money (ie you give a 20th rounder projected to go top 2 rounds the amount he would have gotten had he went there) because it would essentially allow you to have more first round picks than you otherwise did.

Well Tex is a Boras client and I think I'm missing one or two other guys that they have. They definitely did get burned pretty badly by Boras though so I wouldn't be shocked if they did start straying from them (considering how much bigger the Rangers offer was than any other team...but again it is ownership and management that eventually agrees to meet Boras demands).

 

 

Daniels is nearly done. Not sure if he'll make much longer in Texas. His baseball background is incredibly thin. The Danks and Chris Young deals, along with giving up Cordero (and way too much for Lee when the Rangers were dead in the water) to the Brewers, signing Gagne...he's in far over his head.

 

Ricciardi has had VERY mixed results in TOR and should be fired, but will fire his Rambo-esque manager first, DiPodesta was bad in LA and Epstein...well, it's hard to see how good Theo or Cashman would be unless you put them in the position of Dayton Moore in KC or down in Tampa Bay.

[Kalapse]

Oh and the 5 year $65M contract he gave to Chan Ho Park (A BORAS CLIENT) in 2002. Yet another 5 year contract I forgot about.

[Chisoxfn]

Daniels is nearly done. Not sure if he'll make much longer in Texas. His baseball background is incredibly thin. The Danks and Chris Young deals, along with giving up Cordero (and way too much for Lee when the Rangers were dead in the water) to the Brewers, signing Gagne...he's in far over his head.

 

Ricciardi has had VERY mixed results in TOR and should be fired, but will fire his Rambo-esque manager first, DiPodesta was bad in LA and Epstein...well, it's hard to see how good Theo or Cashman would be unless you put them in the position of Dayton Moore in KC or down in Tampa Bay.

Did I read something wrong because I swear I saw on a ticker somewhere that Daniels signed or was close to signing an extension with the Rangers?

 

Edit: He signed a one year extension on June 19th

[Kalapse]

Daniels is nearly done. Not sure if he'll make much longer in Texas. His baseball background is incredibly thin. The Danks and Chris Young deals, along with giving up Cordero (and way too much for Lee when the Rangers were dead in the water) to the Brewers, signing Gagne...he's in far over his head.

 

Ricciardi has had VERY mixed results in TOR and should be fired, but will fire his Rambo-esque manager first, DiPodesta was bad in LA and Epstein...well, it's hard to see how good Theo or Cashman would be unless you put them in the position of Dayton Moore in KC or down in Tampa Bay.

Hicks just gave Daniels a 1 year extension through 2009 like last week.

[caulfield12]

Hicks just gave Daniels a 1 year extension through 2009 like last week.

 

Then the Rangers are more screwed up than even the White Sox if they think taking Ivy League MBA/Marketing/CEO types will ever lead to MLB success from a GM standpoint.

[WCSox]

Tom Hicks is a complete dips***, he'll never stop signing Boras clients because he's in love with overpriced talent. Just last year he gave Kevin Millwood (a Boras Client) a 5 year, $60M contract. HEY! Another 5 year contract that appears to have been a bad idea!

 

But you don't understand. Mark is DIFFERENT!

[Chisoxfn]

Then the Rangers are more screwed up than even the White Sox if they think taking Ivy League MBA/Marketing/CEO types will ever lead to MLB success from a GM standpoint.

I am still waiting to receive an offer to be a GM. I'd sign for less than market value.

[Steff]

However, I have no problem with them passing on Boras players if they are going to ask for ridiculous money, that said you should still call him up and talk to him about what it would take to sign his client if they drafted him (cause it could very well be a more than fair deal).

 

 

And to be honest, I hope other teams follow suite. It's about stopping Boras from demanding outrageous amounts of $ for unproven ML talent. If everyone tells him to kiss their asses, either he'll stop making insane demands for MLB players, or they won't hire him. He makes way more off football players anyway. I wish he would stick to them full time.

[Chisoxfn]

And to be honest, I hope other teams follow suite. It's about stopping Boras from demanding outrageous amounts of $ for unproven ML talent. If everyone tells him to kiss their asses, either he'll stop making insane demands for MLB players, or they won't hire him. He makes way more off football players anyway. I wish he would stick to them full time.

Does he represent the football players or is it his agency that does that?

[Steff]

Does he represent the football players or is it his agency that does that?

 

 

Is that not where he made his mega millions before he blew ARod and got Hicks to give up the farm?

[WCSox]

He makes way more off football players anyway.

 

That's surprising, since baseball contracts are not only larger, but guaranteed. Boras could only theoretically take a cut of the guaranteed signing bonus and first year of a NFL player's contract, no?

[Chisoxfn]

Is that not where he made his mega millions before he blew ARod and got Hicks to give up the farm?

I'm not sure. I always thought Boras was just involved with baseball, but I'm not positive about that. I know Lee Steinman is/was the super agent in football (but Rosenhaus has kind of came in and stolen some of his thunder).

[Dick Allen]

Boras was looking to get into football about 5 or 6 years ago, but I don't think he ever did. Salary caps and lack of quarantees would probably drive him crazy.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Dick Allen

[jackie hayes]

Definitely. I still find it funny that he eventually worked his way back from being a mega bust and is now a semi decent reliever for the Tigers (but god the Sox got lucky on that one cause that would have been the original Joe borchard like bust).

 

However, the one thing that tends to bother me is that if the Sox get burned just once doing something, they tend to shy away from it for a long long time. Case in point, they pretty much will never offer another draft pick over slot money thanks to Joe Borchard not panning out (however, you know in advance that the draft is a crap shoot, however, you still have to know the more you spend both on your scouts as well as on being willing to give more money to players, enables you to have a far better player development system).

 

I should also say the Sox are not known to be a "cheap" organization in terms of the draft but they also aren't the Angels (who consistently invest in picks, including those high impact projected top couple round guys that slide due to strong commits or high salary demands). I would love to see the Sox take guys like Jordan Danks (first round talent that slid or the guy they took around the 20th round this year) and convert a couple of them and get them signed for top couple of round money (ie you give a 20th rounder projected to go top 2 rounds the amount he would have gotten had he went there) because it would essentially allow you to have more first round picks than you otherwise did.

Well Tex is a Boras client and I think I'm missing one or two other guys that they have. They definitely did get burned pretty badly by Boras though so I wouldn't be shocked if they did start straying from them (considering how much bigger the Rangers offer was than any other team...but again it is ownership and management that eventually agrees to meet Boras demands).

I've never thought of it as being cheap. Reinsdorf is ARDENTLY an "organization guy". He was the only one to oppose Cuban's ownership of the Mavericks (iirc), presumably bc he didn't want anyone so outspoken (as opposed to standing by the league). (And I know it's a little odd to claim someone's an organization guy bc he was the only vote opposing something -- but I think I makes sense in this case.) I've always thought that probably played a large part in the Sox drafting strategy. I'm sure he wants to minimize the amount by which the Sox violate the 'slot money' guidelines.

[Steff]

That's surprising, since baseball contracts are not only larger, but guaranteed. Boras could only theoretically take a cut of the guaranteed signing bonus and first year of a NFL player's contract, no?

 

I could definitely be wrong, but I thought with his football clients he got an upfront cut of the total contract and if the player got screwed, the player got screwed. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

I'm not sure. I always thought Boras was just involved with baseball, but I'm not positive about that. I know Lee Steinman is/was the super agent in football (but Rosenhaus has kind of came in and stolen some of his thunder).

 

I think Drew and Scott were partners at some point. I know around '97 Scott was a big player in football. Whether it was his agency or him specifically he still would have made some serious bank, no?

 

Boras was looking to get into football about 5 or 6 years ago, but I don't think he ever did. Salary caps and lack of quarantees would probably drive him crazy.

 

 

Back into it?

[WCSox]

I'm not sure. I always thought Boras was just involved with baseball, but I'm not positive about that. I know Lee Steinman is/was the super agent in football (but Rosenhaus has kind of came in and stolen some of his thunder).

 

Rosenhaus was on track to becoming the Scott Boras of the NFL before his ridiculous defense of TO. IIRC, he lost several clients after that.