Chris Benoit...

[IlliniKrush]

Yeah, some douche on Jim Rome said that none of them are athletes, they are just actors

They aren't athletes...they are entertainers. They said so themselves to the government, hence steroids et al aren't regulated there.

Edited June 27, 2007 by IlliniKrush

[Gregory Pratt]

They aren't athletes...they are entertainers. They said so themselves to the government, hence steroids et al aren't regulated there.

 

They said so to avoid legal trouble. People say a lot of things to avoid trouble.

 

They're definitely athletes and actors and anybody who says so, IMO, is ignorant of wrestling, what it takes to be a wrestler and what it takes to be in the ring.

[Gregory Pratt]

I wrote a little about Benoit and the situation's continuation on my blog this afternoon.

 

False Finishes

 

Remember what I talked about yesterday? You know, about opportunists in the media? It starts with this article, Chokehold May Have Killed Benoit's Son.

 

Listen: Chris Benoit killed Chris Benoit's son, and whether he suffocated him with a pillow, crushed his throat with his hands or asphixiated him with his biceps is irrelevant to wrestling unless you're one of those people that still thinks wrestlers bleed with ketchup or some other makeshift device and want to blame a man on an industry. Anybody that tries to blame wrestling for this tragedy is shameless and those who believe it are fools who are falling for a false finish.

 

Like I said yesterday, there are questions to be answered about antidepressents, steroids, the atmosphere backstage and the schedule they work under. But let's not pretend as the Atlanta Journal is or as CNN did that this has anything to do with wrestling. It doesn't. That doesn't mean I'm not putting any blame on the company, because I think it possible that they could've done more for Benoit (and for wrestlers in general) but the key distinction I'd like to make is that wrestling is not to blame, and I think my point and speculation are enhanced by this, which I read today.

 

If wrestlers had six weeks off twice a year, every year, year after year, it would dramatically, I believe, change the mental and physical health of wrestlers. It would change the tone of the locker room from an endless frat party/rock concert tour/pro athlete season to a more reasonable, humane, family-friendly, health-friendly environment. If every wrestler in the locker room had mandatory breaks of six weeks twice a year, they'd be "on" for nine months a year total, still have plenty of time to make a great living, perhaps have a long career, and along the way enjoy life more, be there for their kids and spouses, decompress, explore hobbies, and build well-rounded lives.

 

The decision to keep increases the intake of pills to get to sleep, and then take pills from a different bottle to get going in the morning might not be made. Instead, the light at the end of the tunnel would always be visible. Knowing that every four or five months an extended breather was coming up could change the attitude of wrestlers who take pills because there is no end in sight, so the only relief or high or reason to go on is pharmaceutical.

 

It's something to think about as a wrestler's schedule is brutal, and all the days of work certainly didn't help Benoit's psyche or his family, as it's clear he was abusing prescription drugs, taking steroids and slowly losing himself, as some wrestlers have alluded to changes in his character over the last several months. The author brings up the level of respect Benoit had from his co-workers, wrestling writers and fans such as myself, which is what makes it all the more apparent that something has to be done for the wrestlers, and that WWE might bear some responsibility, but for very different reasons than those Joe Pressbox is selling us on.

[IlliniKrush]

They said so to avoid legal trouble. People say a lot of things to avoid trouble.

 

They're definitely athletes and actors and anybody who says so, IMO, is ignorant of wrestling, what it takes to be a wrestler and what it takes to be in the ring.

Lots of drugs.

[Gregory Pratt]

Lots of drugs.

 

No more than it takes to be a pro football player, baseball player or basketball player.

[T R U]

Lots of drugs.

 

Man, just stop posting in here.. you are making yourself look ridiculous

[Steff]

Most people still think wrestlers bleed using ketchup or some makeshift device.

 

 

 

Back in Lakeland they used little tiny razor blades that were slid under their wristbands. Not the brightest tools in the shed back then, but it got the job done when the metal chair didn't bust them up enough.

[Brian]

I have a buddy who trained at the Monster Factory and 3 buddies who trained with Scott D'Amore in Canada, wrestled for Sin City in Michigan, and are now in Japan.

 

To hear them tell me about the training they had to go through and the condition they must keep themselves in is at just as high a level as any other sport. Not only do you have to be in tip top shape, but you have to have impecable timing or else who could end your career.

 

You put your body through so much 5 days a week, sometimes you have to take a pain killer or something to make it.

 

Not to mention the toll it takes mentally, being on the road so much.

 

If someone is gonna come in this thread and tell me that all it takes to be a wrestler is drugs, is jaded and ignorant.

[IlliniKrush]

Man, just stop posting in here.. you are making yourself look ridiculous

LOL

 

RIP BENOIT

[Brian]

Back in Lakeland they used little tiny razor blades that were slid under their wristbands. Not the brightest tools in the shed back then, but it got the job done when the metal chair didn't bust them up enough.

 

That's pretty much the same method they do it now, or just do it the hard way. One of my buddie was suppose to go over the top turnbuckle during a match and down to the floor, screwed up and his forehead met the top of the turn buckel post and had a nasty gash. Had to get 20 stitches.

[Steff]

That's pretty much the same method they do it now, or just do it the hard way. One of my buddie was suppose to go over the top turnbuckle during a match and down to the floor, screwed up and his forehead met the top of the turn buckel post and had a nasty gash. Had to get 20 stitches.

 

 

Really.. ? You'd think in 20 years they would come up with a little better system. I remember a few times a wrist got accidentally cut. Not good.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Really.. ? You'd think in 20 years they would come up with a little better system. I remember a few times a wrist got accidentally cut. Not good.

This brings up memories of the Mass Transit lawsuit that I'm sure all the wrestling fans here will remember.

[Gregory Pratt]

This brings up memories of the Mass Transit lawsuit that I'm sure all the wrestling fans here will remember.

 

Mass Transit told them he was older than he was and offered to get into the ring. He wanted to bleed. He asked New Jack to do it for him because "I don't know how to do it," so New Jack said yes. Here we go:

 

When it came time to actually blade Kulas, Young claimed that Kulas flinched during the process, causing the exacto knife blade embedded in a piece of wood he used to cut deeper than he planned; two arteries in Kulas' forehead were severed. The wound took fifty stitches to close. Young later stated, in Jeremy Borash's unauthorized documentary, Forever Hardcore, that it was a surgeon's scalpel. Due to the event being a house show, the match was not televised. However, Extreme Fan Cam was on hand to record the event on a camcorder, which was used as evidence for the trial; video footage showed New Jack asking Kulas: "You alright?" This prompted some to consider his actions moments later as part of the show and not representative of his true feelings. After the blading, the Gangstas proceeded to work Kulas over even more, prompting Stephen Kulas to scream, "Ring the f***ing bell, he's 17!" As medics rushed into the ring to aid Kulas, New Jack grabbed the house microphone and exclaimed, "McMahon, Bischoff, look at this motherf***er! As far as I'm concerned, that fat piece of s*** can bleed to f***ing death, because I don't give a f***".

 

Kulas lost the lawsuit, as he should've. And his father was an idiot for letting his seventeen year old kid pretend to be older.

 

Kulas died during a gastric bypass weight loss operation a few years later.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

LOL

 

RIP BENOIT

Oh my god, because other sports athletes don't have drugs or commit violent crimes *cough some in the NBA are convicted criminals, Rae Carruth, Mike Vick, the high usage of HGH/steroids/greenies in baseball just for a small set of starters cough*

 

Try running the ring ropes or taking a few chops or a few of the things they put their bodies through on a nightly basis before you spout off at the mouth and make yourself look like more of a dumb, ignorant motherf***er than you already appear.

 

If you don't like professional wrestling, at least respect the risks they put themselves through for some peoples' entertainment. It's a certain modicum of respect given to any person. It's a tradition, really -- like the Illini football team having no front seven. I don't enjoy basketball but I don't go into threads and tell people I meet what I truly think of the sport and the people who play it on a professional level. Why? Because I'm not as much of a jackass and know that while it is not my cup of tea, it is still athleticism that I can respect because they train, practice and work their ass of to make money and entertain a segment of the population.

[Gregory Pratt]

Oh my god, because other sports athletes don't have drugs or commit violent crimes *cough some in the NBA are convicted criminals, Rae Carruth, Mike Vick, the high usage of HGH/steroids/greenies in baseball just for a small set of starters cough*

 

Try running the ring ropes or taking a few chops or a few of the things they put their bodies through on a nightly basis before you spout off at the mouth and make yourself look like more of a dumb, ignorant motherf***er than you already appear.

 

If you don't like professional wrestling, at least respect the risks they put themselves through for some peoples' entertainment. It's a certain modicum of respect given to any person. It's a tradition, really -- like the Illini football team having no front seven. I don't enjoy basketball but I don't go into threads and tell people I meet what I truly think of the sport and the people who play it on a professional level. Why? Because I'm not as much of a jackass and know that while it is not my cup of tea, it is still athleticism that I can respect because they train, practice and work their ass of to make money and entertain a segment of the population.

 

Can I talk about teachers? Would you be upset if I used that as a segway into Dean Douglas?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Really.. ? You'd think in 20 years they would come up with a little better system. I remember a few times a wrist got accidentally cut. Not good.

Sometimes the ref has it and gives it in mid-match to the wrestler and gives it back. Other times, they have it hidden in a wristband, etc. until the spot comes in.

 

And Mass Transit incident (video -- graphic and NSFW)

http://www.wrestlinggonewrong.com/video/ma...t_incident.html

 

Can I talk about teachers? Would you be upset if I used that as a segway into Dean Douglas?

Dean Douglas, the Genius and Matt Striker would be such a great stable.

[IlliniKrush]

Oh my god, because other sports athletes don't have drugs or commit violent crimes *cough some in the NBA are convicted criminals, Rae Carruth, Mike Vick, the high usage of HGH/steroids/greenies in baseball just for a small set of starters cough*

 

Try running the ring ropes or taking a few chops or a few of the things they put their bodies through on a nightly basis before you spout off at the mouth and make yourself look like more of a dumb, ignorant motherf***er than you already appear.

 

If you don't like professional wrestling, at least respect the risks they put themselves through for some peoples' entertainment. It's a certain modicum of respect given to any person. It's a tradition, really -- like the Illini football team having no front seven. I don't enjoy basketball but I don't go into threads and tell people I meet what I truly think of the sport and the people who play it on a professional level. Why? Because I'm not as much of a jackass and know that while it is not my cup of tea, it is still athleticism that I can respect because they train, practice and work their ass of to make money and entertain a segment of the population.

I like how you started off your post talking about guys doing HGH, as if that compares to people murdering their wife and child. Man, some people are taking this death of a murderer much harder than others.

 

Like Bernstein said, "Why should I care if he died?"

 

Using drugs and ending their lives early is a life choice these guys make, just like a lot of NFL players have done. That's their choice. Also, I don't have to take a few "chops" to prove anything. That's another choice they make. I never said what they do is easy; however, it seems that a lot of them are using drugs up the wazoo, no? And not just ones to help them with their performance.

 

However, me pointing out that they are indeed entertainers and not professional athletes is a fact, bottom line.

 

I'm more or less LMAO at this people that are all RIP Benoit and stuff. Rest in peace? Because he deserves that.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I like how you started off your post talking about guys doing HGH, as if that compares to people murdering their wife and child. Man, some people are taking this death of a murderer much harder than others.

 

Like Bernstein said, "Why should I care if he died?"

 

Using drugs and ending their lives early is a life choice these guys make, just like a lot of NFL players have done. That's their choice. Also, I don't have to take a few "chops" to prove anything. That's another choice they make. I never said what they do is easy; however, it seems that a lot of them are using drugs up the wazoo, no? And not just ones to help them with their performance.

 

However, me pointing out that they are indeed entertainers and not professional athletes is a fact, bottom line.

 

I'm more or less LMAO at this people that are all RIP Benoit and stuff. Rest in peace? Because he deserves that.

If you don't care, then don't comment.

 

The fact that you're here only for the idea of stirring s*** because you don't care is f***ing laughable. It's like eating cereal with spoiled milk. If you don't like it, don't eat more. Throw it the f*** out.

 

And the HGH, greenies etc. is because you insinuated that all/most wrestlers are on performing enhancing substances -- so I felt the need to address that issue that your "Why should I care [about pro wrestling]?" self brought up.

[Gregory Pratt]

For all the b****ing you do about steroids/drugs in wrestling you seem to forget that baseball, football and basketball all have huge drug/steroid problems to deal with.

 

Oh, and HOCKEY too, and it seems just as bad as anything in wrestling.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/03/21/...book050321.html

 

While the media spotlight has focused squarely on the use of steroids in baseball, a former NHL tough guy says hockey has its own doping problem.

Dave Morissette, who played a handful of games for the Montreal Canadiens during the 1999-2000 season, claims the use of stimulants is rampant in hockey.

 

Morissette alleges hockey players abuse ephedrine-based, over-the-counter drugs such as Sudafed and Ripped Fuel in a book by journalist Mathias Brunet. Mémoires d'un Dur à Cuire (Memories of an Enforcer), which chronicles the tough guy's 12-year hockey career, hit the shelves Monday.

 

"The majority of the guys had their pills," Morissette is quoted as saying in Montreal's French-language daily newspaper La Presse.

 

"It wasn't a big deal. It was pretty common to take pills before a game. It didn't bother anyone."

 

An amphetamine-like stimulant, ephedrine makes the heart beat faster and increases blood pressure, allowing athletes to avoid fatigue and increase their performances during bursts of powerful effort.

 

Morrissette also suggests steroids are common in hockey, even though he claims never to have seen the muscle-building drugs used by his teammates.

 

"You don't do anything in the locker room," he told CBC Newsworld. "It's taboo."

 

But Morrissette does admit he used steroids to bolster his chances of earning a spot in the NHL.

 

"I saw some of my future rivals – such as John Kordic – training in the gym. I was going to have to be as large as him."

 

Also a Canadiens' fighter, Kordic died in 1992 after a long period of steroid and cocaine use.

 

At the time, Morrissette believed the drugs would make him a better player. Now he believes steroids robbed him of his career.

 

"[steroids] didn't help me. They didn't make me a better hockey player."

 

Morrissette says his body couldn't support all the extra muscle he gained through steroid use.

 

"I had injuries ... all kinds of surgeries," he said. "I wouldn't have had [all the injuries] without steroids."

 

In addition to his brief stint with the Canadiens, Morissette also played in the American Hockey League, the defunct International Hockey League and in England for the London Knights of the British hockey league.

 

Morissette says he began taking supplements as a teenager to cope with rigours of life on the road.

 

"With 70-80 games per year, the bus trips," explains Morrissette, who played junior hockey in Quebec, "it was it was impossible for a normal human being to keep up with out the drugs."

 

The idea that hockey players are using ephedrine-based stimulants is nothing new. There are plenty of anonymous anecdotal accounts of Sudafed use. In 1999, the Canadian roller-hockey team was stripped of its gold medals from the Pan Am Games after goalie Steve Vezina was found to have consumed the cold medication.

 

The NHL currently doesn't have a policy against the use of stimulants like Sudafed. Morissette says the problem will persist, and could grow worse, if the league continues to turn a blind eye.

 

"As long as there's no penalty, those who aren't using drugs will feel handicapped.

 

"When a you go to fight a guy, and that you know he's taken five or six [pills] you are afraid. You think that you'd better take some too."

 

I don't know whether or not to refer to hockey as a sport or entertainment, though, since they're skating, for one, and nobody's watching, for another. /green

 

Dunno why you're here trolling about wrestling and Benoit, though.

 

PS: I don't think anybody's apologized for Benoit or made excuses for him or defended him. Some of us simply can't believe how tragic it's been. Some of us are stunned. I have talked about how disturbing it all is but have stated that I can't hate him for what occurred and won't and would like to learn more about what was going on with him and drugs and everything. I prefer to leave the biggest judgements to God.

[IlliniKrush]

PS: I don't think anybody's apologized for Benoit or made excuses for him or defended him. Some of us simply can't believe how tragic it's been. Some of us are stunned. I have talked about how disturbing it all is but have stated that I can't hate him for what occurred and won't and would like to learn more about what was going on with him and drugs and everything. I prefer to leave the biggest judgements to God.

Oh really? You can't make an excuse or defend a double murder? I didn't know that.

 

Tragic it's been? It's not tragic for Benoit, it's tragic for the wife, kid, and anyone who loved them.

 

You guys go on with your RIP Benoit stuff and have a ball. Such a tragedy, indeed.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Oh really? You can't make an excuse or defend a double murder? I didn't know that.

 

Tragic it's been? It's not tragic for Benoit, it's tragic for the wife, kid, and anyone who loved them.

 

You guys go on with your RIP Benoit stuff and have a ball. Such a tragedy, indeed.

It's tragic for all involved. Who are you to be the Supreme Decision Maker of other peoples' emotions?

 

Seriously, go find another bridge to live under, troll.

[T R U]

However, me pointing out that they are indeed entertainers and not professional athletes is a fact, bottom line.

 

Thats not a fact at all, they are indeed professional athletes. They are in professional wrestling as their career. To sit here and say that they are not athletes is ignorant and that is a fact, bottom line.

[Brian]

Oh really? You can't make an excuse or defend a double murder? I didn't know that.

 

Tragic it's been? It's not tragic for Benoit, it's tragic for the wife, kid, and anyone who loved them.

 

You guys go on with your RIP Benoit stuff and have a ball. Such a tragedy, indeed.

 

Since all the facts came out, who has said "RIP Benoit" here? I did when I thought it was a gas leak or some accident, but since the facts were figured out, I think he was a POS.

[T R U]

Since all the facts came out, who has said "RIP Benoit" here? I did when I thought it was a gas leak or some accident, but since the facts were figured out, I think he was a POS.

 

No one has defended Benoit since the facts came out, he just doesn't know what he is talking about

[LowerCaseRepublican]

AP is reporting:

 

In the days before pro wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife and child and hanged himself, the couple argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their mentally retarded 7-year-old son, an attorney for the wrestling league said Wednesday.

 

"I think it's fair to say that the subject of caring for that child was part of what made their relationship complicated and difficult, and it's something they were both constantly struggling with," said Jerry McDevitt, an attorney for World Wrestling Entertainment. "We do know it was a source of stress and consternation."

 

McDevitt said the wrestling organization learned from the couple's friends and relatives that the Benoits were struggling with where to send the boy to school since he had recently finished kindergarten.

 

He also said Benoit's wife didn't want him to quit wrestling, but she "wanted him to be at home more to care for the kid. She'd say she can't take care of him by herself when he was on the road."

 

The child suffered from a rare medical condition called Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited form of mental retardation often accompanied by autism, McDevitt said.