Buehrle Fest

[WCSox]

Everyone makes it sound like the money comes out of OUR pockets to keep a popular productive pitcher. Its the money of a team owned by a bunch of rich men who act like they are down to their last dime. 30,000 plus per game-mucho TV $-everything in the park spponsored. Profit Profit Profit

 

As the Sox return to mediocrity, 30,000 per game is going to be a pipe dream. That's going to influence the personnel decisions.

[LVSoxFan]

The thing that also kills me is that if Buehrle goes, to whomever he goes he's going to be an ace and probably be worshipped by that team's fans as a savior, which I think he can live up to.

 

That will be tough to swallow. We had him and gave him up.

[Mr. Showtime]

Again, it doesn't matter. If Mark is here the team will be bad, if he's not here the team will be bad. So, lets just get on with this.

[hitlesswonder]

AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaabsolutely NOTHING, just like I said on page three of this thread.

 

This always was bulls***. I'm glad to know that the organization hasn't changed its stripes any.

Yeah, they still think of themselves as a small market team.

 

It's funny that I would have been less upset if they had just gone and traded Buehrle without the farce that has gone on these last few days. If it is a dealbreaker to include a 2 year NTC, it seems clear the Sox wanted to sign Buehrle to a below market deal and then trade him. There was no actual desire to bring Buehlre back. Realizing that the Sox rebuilding is going to take 4 years and deciding it's not worth signing Buehrle...that's probably smart. But it seems like the Sox tried to exploit Buehrle's desire to stay to make a better trade.

 

The only real disturbing thing about this episode is that it underscores how the Sox severely limit the ways they can acquire talent. They don't deal with Boras clients -- free agents or draft. They don't like offering arbitration so they avoid extra picks and signing bonuses. They won't draft hard signs or pay above slot money. They won't pay market rate for free agents. They won't sign guys to below market deals if they are close to being 5&10 players. It essentially relies on the farm system and cheap FAs to perform extremely well. It's tough to make that work with terrible drafting and development.

[LVSoxFan]

Amen to that brother. That about sums it up.

[Texsox]

Which is funny, because with the lack of income taxes in Texas

 

IIRC, I read a number of years ago that athletes and others like actors, entertainers, were being taxed in some states when they played there.

 

Found a link, there are others, I love the Jordan angle http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15642

[WCSox]

Yeah, they still think of themselves as a small market team.

 

The Sox aren't a lock to draw 35,000+ a game when they suck, like the Red Sox and Cubs. Nor do they own their own TV network, like the Yankees and Mets. Being located in a major market doesn't ensure top-tier spending ability.

Edited July 1, 2007 by WCSox

[klaus kinski]

The Sox aren't a lock to draw 35,000+ a game when they suck, like the Red Sox and Cubs. Nor do they own their own TV network, like the Yankees and Mets. Being located in a major market doesn't ensure top-tier spending ability.

 

 

Then dont suck

[Texsox]

Everyone makes it sound like the money comes out of OUR pockets to keep a popular productive pitcher.

 

Last time I looked the results were covered in the sports section with runs scored not ROI from the financial pages.

[WCSox]

Then dont suck

 

Great strategy for a Chicago baseball team.

 

I find it unbelievable that nobody was willing to buy The Score's reported 4/50 earlier this week, but everybody's buying the Trib's reported 4/56, as if an extra $6 million over four years is the difference between "unreasonably low" and "reasonable"... and also considering that both figures are WELL BELOW what Mark could command on the FA market. I'm convinced that what we're being fed by these "sources" right now is utter bulls***.

Edited July 1, 2007 by WCSox

[Flash Tizzle]

The only real disturbing thing about this episode is that it underscores how the Sox severely limit the ways they can acquire talent. They don't deal with Boras clients -- free agents or draft. They don't like offering arbitration so they avoid extra picks and signing bonuses. They won't draft hard signs or pay above slot money. They won't pay market rate for free agents. They won't sign guys to below market deals if they are close to being 5&10 players. It essentially relies on the farm system and cheap FAs to perform extremely well. It's tough to make that work with terrible drafting and development.

Absolutely. Which is why I continue to hold high expectations for any forthcoming trade involving a starting pitcher or positional player. This route of acquiring talent may be one of the few we could anticipate high upside talent. I'm not holding any excuses for Williams. If there's trouble convincing a team to unload blue chip prospects, then it's the responsibility of his scouts to identify players in lower levels.

 

Oh, and there's also the bustling international talent pool to consider. Something we've obviously ignored for quite awhile. I'm thinking when July 2nd comes around -- the date for signing international players -- we're going to find out the future superstarts which the White Sox aren't going to get.

 

If we're competing anytime before 2010 it'll be a minor miracle.

[Gregory Pratt]

My god, how often are you going to change your avatar? You change it almost as much as your diaper.

 

I'll change it daily for awhile, probably, before I return to the I Remember Montreal avatar.

[BearSox]

I'll change it daily for awhile, probably, before I return to the I Remember Montreal avatar.

Is that another wrestler? If so, which one is it? I can't quite make it out.

[hitlesswonder]

The Sox aren't a lock to draw 35,000+ a game when they suck, like the Red Sox and Cubs. Nor do they own their own TV network, like the Yankees and Mets. Being located in a major market doesn't ensure top-tier spending ability.

I understand that. But the Sox, to me, seem incredibly risk-averse. I'm told that sometimes you need to take some risk in order to get a big return. And I'm not even talking about a big, big FA signing. Just offer arbitration to Riske and get some picks or a reliever you could have used anyway. Stepping up, they could have drafted Porcello. That risks more money, but nothing close a Zito contract. For goodness sake, KC took a shot with Gil Meche. That may still turn out to have been a bad idea, but it may have been a great signing. I know, it's not my money but I'd like it if the Sox were a little more adventurous.

[Gregory Pratt]

Is that another wrestler? If so, which one is it? I can't quite make it out.

 

Dawn Marie Psaltis

[RME JICO]

I just figured it out. The Sox are going to do something along the lines of the Clemens return at Yankees stadium when he announced his comeback from the Owner's box.

 

Buehrle is going to arise from the beneath the mound to start the game holding a huge contract in his hands before starting the game on Monday. He will also have a $ in front of his number to signify the $56 million he will get.

 

or they leave the tarp on the infield so he can run in from the bullpen and tarp slide to the mound on a huge contract.

Edited July 1, 2007 by RME JICO

[witesoxfan]

Absolutely. Which is why I continue to hold high expectations for any forthcoming trade involving a starting pitcher or positional player. This route of acquiring talent may be one of the few we could anticipate high upside talent. I'm not holding any excuses for Williams. If there's trouble convincing a team to unload blue chip prospects, then it's the responsibility of his scouts to identify players in lower levels.

 

Oh, and there's also the bustling international talent pool to consider. Something we've obviously ignored for quite awhile. I'm thinking when July 2nd comes around -- the date for signing international players -- we're going to find out the future superstarts which the White Sox aren't going to get.

 

If we're competing anytime before 2010 it'll be a minor miracle.

 

He's obviously far away, but De Los Santos?

 

And then when you say competing, it seriously depends upon how loosely you define the term "compete." I can easily see the Sox winning 83-88 games in 08 or 09, depending upon luck and the players acquired between now and next April, but 88 wins may still finish 10 games out of first and in 3rd place.

[dagotony06]

Sounds like Dye maybe getting a little jealous about not receiving any offers for an extension the way Mark is.

KANSAS CITY -- The plan for the 2007 regular season involving Mark Buehrle, Jermaine Dye, Tadahito Iguchi and the White Sox seemed simple and straightforward in theory when laid out during Spring Training.

This trio of potential high-end free agents next offseason and the team for whom they currently played would talk about their contractual situations until the end of March, and then all further discussions would be tabled until after the 2007 campaign was complete. That plan took a decided shift in focus during the past few weeks, when talk centered on Buehrle jumped from his possible trade to negotiations for a new long-term deal.

 

A daily briefing almost seems necessary now to keep up with all the twists and turns.

 

In the interim, a valuable contributor such as Dye sort of faded into the background. Dye said on Saturday he didn't feel left behind and wasn't bothered by the focus placed on Buehrle. But his ensuing comments might suggest a different feeling.

 

"I don't really care," said Dye, at the outset of his explanation prior to Saturday's game with the Royals. "Whatever happens to Buehrle, he deserves whatever he gets."

 

Dye paused briefly, before changing direction slightly about the big-picture free-agent negotiations.

 

"I really don't want to say what I want to say," Dye said. "No comment."

 

Three more contractually-related questions were greeted with further "no comments" from Dye. The White Sox right fielder, who set career highs with 44 home runs and 120 RBIs last season, was able to talk about his strained right quadriceps and the progress he is making after missing eight straight games.

 

Basically, when he feels comfortable running the bases, Dye will return to the starting lineup.

 

"Let it take its course and go from there," Dye said. "There's less soreness. The [agility] drills I did yesterday, I just felt it a tiny bit."

 

So, Dye's focus remains on getting healthy, getting on the field and then moving on from there. That movement might involve a trade to another team in the next month or so, but at the present time, it doesn't involve any talk on contract extensions with the White Sox.

 

"Like who? [General manager] Kenny [Williams]? No. For what?" asked Dye when questioned if he had talked to anyone within the White Sox about his contract. "We weren't going to negotiate during the season, remember?"

[Mr. Showtime]

Maybe if Dye wasn't playing like s*** they'd ask him about signing a new deal.

[dagotony06]

Maybe if Dye wasn't playing like s*** they'd ask him about signing a new deal.

I know. It's his own fault. I hope they get rid of this guy ASAP. I really don't like Dye's attitude since he got injured.

[Soxfest]

If deal is dead lets move on for MB and Sox sake!

[Mr. Showtime]

I know. It's his own fault. I hope they get rid of this guy ASAP. I really don't like Dye's attitude since he got injured.

 

Yep.

[klaus kinski]

I know. It's his own fault. I hope they get rid of this guy ASAP. I really don't like Dye's attitude since he got injured.

 

It was that darn McDonalds commercial

[VAfan]

Just want to add my name to all those who think it's ridiculous for the Sox not to give Buehrle his no-trade after he backed down to 4 years at the under-market bargain of $14 million/year.

 

Mark Buehrle has had ONE mediocre year for the Sox in his career, and the first half of that year, he went to the ALL-STAR GAME!

 

The guy is one of the surest pitchers in baseball to give you 200+ innings and 15 or more wins a year, year-after-year.

 

So, instead of a solid nucleus to rebuild around -- Buehrle, Garland, Danks -- we are going to be left paying almost as much for far less production (Javier Vazquez). With Buehrle in the fold, we could ship out Contreras now and Vazquez in the offseason. With solid pitching, we might be able to attract a couple of good free agents to play with us. We would have something to build around.

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1970. But this sucks worse than anything I've seen in 37 years. Two years after winning it all, boneheaded stubborness has wrecked the franchise. We really are going to send out everyone but Danks and Fields and start all over.

[gosox41]

Terrible, just terrible.

 

There just was no reason for all of this. It really is not that difficult to keep things under raps. If the Sox really wanted to, they could have kept all this behind closed doors, and none of this gets brought up. Instead, Sox fans have to sit through a week of updates on "BuehrleGate", and now it ends like this. Everyone already is disappointed in how this season went, why not just toss another log onto the fire, Kenny.

 

Oh, and you won't give a NTC to Buehrle but you will to Count and Javy? Sorry, but that just can't be true. If it is, then this organization has way bigger problems then I thought.

 

 

Is it possible the MLBPA made Buehrle ask for the NTC.

 

Here's one theory I've heard discussed:

 

The Sox and Buehrle have been negotiatin at least all week on this deal. Why would it take all week for the NTC to become an issue. Surely, when Buehrle's agent first contacted the Sox about him wanting to stay ehre, this point had to come up. NTC is a major part of any long term deal. If the Sox didnt' want to give him one, why not tell the agent right away. Instead Hahn and Berry fly to Tampa to negotiate.

 

It wasn't until after this was reported that there was a rumor that the MLBPA wasn't happy with the deal since they didn't want to see a premier free agent sign for below market value. Maybe they applied enough pressure for Buerhle to come back now and ask for it, maybe after everything else in the contract was agreed to.

 

We all know JR and KW's character. They don't belive in no trade clauses period. I think it wold be idiotic to think that all week this point wasn't brought up by Buerhle's camp. I can see Buerhle's agent saying something early in negotiations like: "Mark wants to stay and will sign for less as long as you give him a NTC." This isn't like they were negotiating perks like how many free tickets Buehrle gets per game to give away.

 

We also know JR and KW are stubborn and if they felt that a deal was headed one direction then all of the sudden the BS from the union changes things, I can see them telling the union to screw it by not agreeing to it.

 

All that being said, if I were the Sox, I'd at least give him a limited NTC as a sacrifice for passing up all that money.

 

Either way, I don't think we're getting the whole story on the NTC.

 

 

Bob