Buehrle Fest

[Steve9347]

if they don't sign this deal because of a no trade clause, ....

I just can't see that being a big deal... how would THAT be the piece that holds this up. This has to be bunk info.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

An accident?

 

C'mon dude, we won the world series because we were the best team in 2005. We had the best starting pitching etc., and we swept the final series.

 

Let me clarify, a good team was put together by accident since KW is all for collection the Jon Adkins of the world. The team playing well was not an accident.

[DBAHO]

I just can't see that being a big deal... how would THAT be the piece that holds this up. This has to be bunk info.

Buehrle could be worried if he signs this right now without a NTC and the Sox continue to struggle and a team comes in with a real great offer, he could be traded.

 

He wants that security to stay here.

 

But I think a compromise can at least be reached. Buehrle should be allowed to have some teams such as the Cardinals which he'd be able to accept a deal to.

 

Let me clarify, a good team was put together by accident since KW is all for collection the Jon Adkins of the world. The team playing well was not an accident.

So let's see, signing Iguchi as a free agent, and having him have a good rookie season was an accident?

 

Getting A.J Pierzynski to fill our catcher need was an accident?

 

KW made a lot of shrewd moves that off-season (and yes the Lee for Podsednik deal looks bad right now, but it helped us to win the world series so I'll always be thankful for that).

 

As for the Jon Adkins, well is Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd going to be Jon Adkins? You think Philly would like to have those 2 back now for Freddy Garcia wouldn't you?

[RME JICO]

That was probably stated prior to last night.

 

Anyone else think that they have to trade him prior to Monday night now? When's Floyd's next start supposed to be?

Floyd pitched on the 26th and would be due to pitch again Sunday in Pawtucket. What is interesting is the Knights don't have a scheduled pitcher yet for tonight's game, when based on the normal schedule, it would be Phillips.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

So let's see, signing Iguchi as a free agent, and having him have a good rookie season was an accident?

 

Getting A.J Pierzynski to fill our catcher need was an accident?

 

KW made a lot of shrewd moves that off-season (and yes the Lee for Podsednik deal looks bad right now, but it helped us to win the world series so I'll always be thankful for that).

 

As for the Jon Adkins, well is Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd going to be Jon Adkins? You think Philly would like to have those 2 back now for Freddy Garcia wouldn't you?

Even the Cubs look smart once in a while.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Greg The Bull Luzinski

[Kalapse]

I dont believe its over no trade clause no matter how many sources report it. Until you hear, Kenny, Buerhle, or agent say that then I dont believe it. I think its money and years. I think reinsdorf okay go four years but still wasnt enough convince buerhle. Thats why Hahn went back chicago. It was already rejected after he left Tampa. If vasquez was able get one and contreas I highly doubt the guy who was brought up by kenny wouldnt be able get no trade clause. Im not buying it.

There's a difference here, however. Contreras was only given no trade protection for the first year of the deal ('07) which isn't all that uncommon and Vazquez was given no trade protection to a couple west coast teams, there's still 20 something other teams he can be traded to without his permission. Buehrle was likely looking for a complete no trade clause meaning he couldn't be traded to any team, at anytime over the life of the deal without his consent. There's a big difference between the 3 and I understand why the Sox wouldn't want to do that, they were going to flip him after the season, it's the only thing that makes any sense.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Buehrle would become a 10/5 guy in the final year of a 4 year deal meaning Buehrle was looking for a no trade for the first 3 years of the contract. And if the Sox aren't willing to do that then it's pretty obvious they would have traded him within the next 2 years.

[RME JICO]

I just can't see that being a big deal... how would THAT be the piece that holds this up. This has to be bunk info.

Not if it was for the entire contract. That is the only way I can see that being an issue. Especially since they gave one year NTC's out before. Edited June 30, 2007 by RME JICO

[GreenSox]

If a ntc clause really held this up, then the Sox didn't really want to sign him. And it wouldn't surprise me with kenny's and ozzie's love-affair with "Stuff" that MB isn't their style pitcher.

 

At this point, I say Kenny, you gave a starting catcher, an A prospect and a B prospect to rent Freddie Garcia. That plus 20% is what the Sox should receive for MB, if you are a neutral (average) trade-bargainer. Let's see what ya got, Williams.

 

Re Jon Adkins, he's what we got when Williams did a trade deadline of the most prominent player he dumped so far. And it wasn't pretty. That was an embarassing trade on paper and in reality. Williams was woefully overmatched, but I'm sure he's learned a lot since then. STill, he really hasn't been a dumper in a while.

Edited June 30, 2007 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

I am going to hold out a little hope, as this stuff seems to happen here... Both Scott Skiles and Jose Contreras negotiations were "over" before they resigned.

[hitlesswonder]

What a joke. 4 years $56M is a god damn steal and they f*** it all up by not giving him the NTC, give me a f***ing break. I wouldn't even have been all that upset if it came out that the sticking point was the 5th year or Buehrle was looking for $70M+ but a NTC? How pathetic.

 

Well, the White Sox Organization will pay dearly for this one.

They simply don't want to sign him. It was just an attempt by the Sox to try to look good for the fans and drive up trade value.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am going to hold out a little hope, as this stuff seems to happen here... Both Scott Skiles and Jose Contreras negotiations were "over" before they resigned.

 

You are right, it's best to wait this out and see if it gets done or what they get in trade. Plenty of time to stage boycotts and jump off bridges later if necessary.

[daa84]

no trade clauses are not small parts of the contract like most you are saying. They are actually pretty big. Contreras has one, and said he was willing to waive it if the team wanted him to leave, which everyone on this site said was huge. Not having a NTC allows us to deal buerhle to a contender should we be in this same situation 4 years down the line, or 3 years during the offseason to bring in alot of young talent. Even if it is a conditional NTC it eliminates a great deal of the demand that would be out there for him.

 

 

all that said i think the sox should give him the NTC, but its not just some clause that you give out on every and any contract....

 

i think a big reason they wont give it to him is because the sox already are giving him the extra year, so maybe they planned on trading him before his contract expires

[AddisonStSox]

...it won't be "dead" until he's traded elsewhere.

 

Either way, I'm losing interest.

 

They had me, and then they lost me...

[fathom]

...it won't be "dead" until he's traded elsewhere.

 

Either way, I'm losing interest.

 

They had me, and then they lost me...

 

You sound like Ozzie Guillen.

[hitlesswonder]

I know it will never happen, but KW should be fired for the way things happened over the last week. He's now lost even more leverage, as other teams know we won't re-sign Buehrle.

 

I agree. Williams should be fired. Whatever the goal of this fiasco was, it was handled incompetently.

[fathom]

One more thing....if we're not willing to make this deal happen for Buehrle, you might as well go ahead and trade Garland then. He's going to want/get in the 14 million dollar range also, and I'm sure he'll want a NTC.

[GreenSox]

They simply don't want to sign him. It was just an attempt by the Sox to try to look good for the fans and drive up trade value.

Your first clause may be right, but withdrawing from negotiations drives down trade value.

[hitlesswonder]

As for the Jon Adkins, well is Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd going to be Jon Adkins? You think Philly would like to have those 2 back now for Freddy Garcia wouldn't you?

 

Gonzalez and Floyd haven't done anything for the Soxyet. Pardon me for not feeling assured that a good month in AAA means Floyd will be effective at the major league level. That trade is still open to criticism given the return Williams got. Jennings brought so much more from Houston than the Sox got from PHI that you have to think KW could have gotten more.

 

One more thing....if we're not willing to make this deal happen for Buehrle, you might as well go ahead and trade Garland then. He's going to want/get in the 14 million dollar range also, and I'm sure he'll want a NTC.

Absolutely. Garland needs to be traded now while he's at max value with over a year left on his deal. He'll be long gone by the time the Sox compete again and he and Jenks both need to get moved this season.

 

Your first clause may be right, but withdrawing from negotiations drives down trade value.

Originally, I think they were hoping to drive up his value at the end of last week as well as look like they tried to sign him. But yes, KW and the Sox have managed too devalue Buehrle and poison things to the point that they have to move for a meager return now. Great job by the organization.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

One more thing....if we're not willing to make this deal happen for Buehrle, you might as well go ahead and trade Garland then. He's going to want/get in the 14 million dollar range also, and I'm sure he'll want a NTC.

At this point, you are right; ake this team the Chicago Expos.

 

I agree. Williams should be fired. Whatever the goal of this fiasco was, it was handled incompetently.

ANy credibility KW had as a negotiator is shot to hell. Mr. Reinsdorf had to save the Konerko signing. I can't think of ONE signing that has done well for KW. Ambulance chasing like Erstad does not count.

[quickman]

...it won't be "dead" until he's traded elsewhere.

 

Either way, I'm losing interest.

 

They had me, and then they lost me...

 

I really don't care anymore. If this thing is dead lets get on with the trades.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gonzalez and Floyd haven't done anything for the Soxyet. Pardon me for not feeling assured that a good month in AAA means Floyd will be effective at the major league level. That trade is still open to criticism given the return Williams got. Jennings brought so much more from Houston than the Sox got from PHI that you have to think KW could have gotten more.

 

Originally, I think they were hoping to drive up his value at the end of last week as well as look like they tried to sign him. But yes, KW and the Sox have managed too devalue Buehrle and poison things to the point that they have to move for a meager return now. Great job by the organization.

 

Yes you are right, any trade is always open for criticism. However if you look deeper there are distinct differences. For one, Astros thought and maybe still think they have a really good chance to extend Jennings, he is a Texas guy, went to Baylor I believe and loves it there. Plus his health, while not perfect, wasn't as dubious as Freddy.

 

Further I don't believe nor do i believe the Phillies think Freddy has a burning desire to extend with Philadelphia. My guess is they were looking at it as a 1 yr. rental. They have gotten basically nil out of Freddy and best scenario for the Phillies is Freddy pitches good in Aug. and Sept.

 

Maybe it is best to see what they get for Buehrle - if he is traded - before saying they have to move him for a meager return?

[quickman]

One more thing....if we're not willing to make this deal happen for Buehrle, you might as well go ahead and trade Garland then. He's going to want/get in the 14 million dollar range also, and I'm sure he'll want a NTC.

 

This is what I said in another psot. people laughed and said garland was the staple of the rotation. Garland should be traded this year not next.

[southsideirish]

I will be really pissed off and agravatted if this came down to a no trade clause. BUehrle is giving up money and years to stay with this team and they won't give him a no trade clause. f***ing unbelievable. For once this organization should return some loyalty. Buehrle is being extremely loyal to this franchise and he is getting absolutely nothing in return. I am getting really turned off by this whole situation if this is in fact because of a no trade clause.

 

I for one would absolutely agree that the person responsible for not letting him have a no trade clause should be immediately fired. Obviously you can't fire the owner, so if it is his idea then there is nothing we can do about it. If it is Kenny's or anyone else's they should be gone immediately.

Edited June 30, 2007 by southsideirish

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really don't care anymore. If this thing is dead lets get on with the trades.

 

Yours is a good point too, whatever happens happens. If they extend him great, if not they will move on.

[Y2HH]

Not to burst the very opinionated bubbles around here, but Buehrle's trade value was NOT driven down by this...at all. That's not how business works.

 

Before you say things like this, everyone needs to think it through from a business/we want to win now prespective. His value is sky high for one simple reason...competition. Boston knows that if another team gets Buehrle, it makes them stronger. Other contending teams know this, too. None of these teams want to see Buehrle go to a team they are in direct competition against for the ALCS/ALDS/World Series.

 

If Team A gets close to a deal with Buehrle, don't think for a second KW wouldn't go to the other teams and say, "I'm about to trade him here for X and X...care to counter?"

 

Hell yes they care to counter...even if it's just a rent-a-player, some of these teams would easily sweeten up their deals to keep Buehrle out of the hands of their enemies.

 

And that's why his value is still sky high, whether we are willing to resign him or not...