Buehrle Fest

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At this point, you are right; ake this team the Chicago Expos.

ANy credibility KW had as a negotiator is shot to hell. Mr. Reinsdorf had to save the Konerko signing. I can't think of ONE signing that has done well for KW. Ambulance chasing like Erstad does not count.

 

Yes well he doesn't do much if any of the contract stuff anyways, you knew that, yes?

 

It is Hahn, and then Dennis Gilbert on the really tricky ones and a couple other behind the scenes guys they have managing the money, like Howard Pizer. Reinsdorf if it's a really complex thing.

Edited June 30, 2007 by 29thandPoplar

[Y2HH]

I will be really pissed off and agravatted if this came down to a no trade clause. BUehrle is giving up money and years to stay with this team and they won't give him a no trade clause. f***ing unbelievable. For once this organization should return some loyalty. Buehrle is being extremely loyal to this franchise and he is getting absolutely nothing in return. I am getting really turned off by this whole situation if this is in fact because of a no trade clause.

 

I for one would absolutely agree that the person responsible for not letting him have a no trade clause should be immediately fired. Obviously you can't fire the owner, so if it is his idea then there is nothing we can do about it. If it is Kenny's or anyone else's they should be gone immediately.

 

From a business prespective, no trade clauses are terrible...absolutly terrible. You're basically paying 56M dollars for an "asset", not unlike buying a home or a stock on the open market...and you're going to tell me that as part of the deal, I cannot resell you or trade you?

 

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

I don't blame the organization for this at all...closed-ended no trade clauses are bad business simply because we cannot see what the future holds. A more open no-trade clause is one thing, such as, you cannot trade me to these specific teams. I could understand a clause like that, but a flat out "you cannot trade or sell me no matter what clause" is bad in any form of business...it's just beyond stupid to enter into agreements such as this.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Y2HH

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to burst the very opinionated bubbles around here, but Buehrle's trade value was NOT driven down by this...at all. That's not how business works.

 

Before you say things like this, everyone needs to think it through from a business/we want to win now prespective. His value is sky high for one simple reason...competition. Boston knows that if another team gets Buehrle, it makes them stronger. Other contending teams know this, too. None of these teams want to see Buehrle go to a team they are in direct competition against for the ALCS/ALDS/World Series.

 

If Team A gets close to a deal with Buehrle, don't think for a second KW wouldn't go to the other teams and say, "I'm about to trade him here for X and X...care to counter?"

 

Hell yes they care to counter...even if it's just a rent-a-player, some of these teams would easily sweeten up their deals to keep Buehrle out of the hands of their enemies.

 

And that's why his value is still sky high, whether we are willing to resign him or not...

 

Hey interesting perspective and I know that Jewel at 30th and Halsted. There used to be a huge lumber yard there which was also where the BP Amoco is now. There was a Kroger across the street where that thrift store is, I walk by there all the time.

 

Sorry - Now back to the Buehrle angst!

[Y2HH]

Hey interesting perspective and I know that Jewel at 30th and Halsted. There used to be a huge lumber yard there which was also where the BP Amoco is now. There was a Kroger across the street where that thrift store is, I walk by there all the time.

 

Sorry - Now back to the Buehrle angst!

 

I live right down the street from there off 33rd/Halsted, around the corner from Mitchells bar...

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Yes well he doesn't do much if any of the contract stuff anyways, you knew that, yes?

 

It is Hahn, and then Dennis Gilbert on the really tricky ones and a couple other behind the scenes guys they have managing the money, like Howard Pizer. Reinsdorf if it's a really complex thing.

But again, refering to my original post, Mr. Reinsdorf has overstepped all of them in the past when they were busy tripping over their feet.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

It's a shame. Buehrle has made it very clear to everyone that he truly wants to continue to play for the White Sox .

 

He's willing to accept far LESS money from the White Sox than he would from other teams just to stay here.

 

The guy has done nothing but produce excellent results, be a consummate teammate, good citizen and an favorite during his years in this organization.

 

Yet, the Sox are balking at signing him to a below market contract - an opportunity that would make almost every other Major League team salivate.

 

Wow. This one would hurt a Sox fan's loyalty.

 

Let's hope it's not true and it gets done. Bite the bullet and sign him.

 

I think most Sox fans would be happy if the team kept only Mark, Garland, Javy, Konerko, Thome and A. J. as the only "big" contracts for next year and filled in the rest of the team with youngsters.

 

Unload Dye, Contreras, Iguchi, Crede, Uribe, Erstad, Pods, Mackowiack and MacDougal for whatever you can get and move on.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But again, refering to my original post, Mr. Reinsdorf has overstepped all of them in the past when they were busy tripping over their feet.

 

No not really. That is not exactly the case according to people who work there. It makes for good copy but its not as if JR flies in on a magic carpet and saves the day. Believe me they are talking about all this crap well before it becomes an issue, figuring out contract parameters and planning things out. They function all together with lots of communication and there are several others with ownership interests who help out as well. There is very little feet tripping, they know exactly what and how far they want to go according to their business plan.

[Mr. Showtime]

I don't see what the big deal is. Trade or sign don't matter to me. I don't see the need to pay so much when the team is going to be bad the next few seasons anyway.

 

All the anger seems to tell me, that some don't understand where this team is headed.

[103 mph screwball]

Give him a 5th year option and a full NTC for years 1-3 and a list o 10 teams he can veto a trade to in years 4-5. I do not blame Mark one single bit. I wouldn't take less money to stay if I was just making myself a more valuable trading piece. If I'm sacrificing millions to play with the Sox, I'd expect a guarantee that I'd be with the Sox. If this is really over, and I refuse to believe it is until he is traded and signed by another team, this stinks like the Sox never really intended on signing Mark. If the Sox don't think 15-20% of their payroll going to Mark fits their plans that is another issue. If this was some sort of plan to appease and fool the fans or raise Marks trade value, I'm disappointed. This is particularly painful during such a dreadful season.

 

If you get rid of Mark, the Sox might as well clean house and rebuild. The guys left will see what happened to their friend who was a great teammate and high performing player who was along with Konerko was the face of the franchise. Employees who do not feel appreciated do not perform up to their potential. If you think Rowand was the heart of the team, wait until Mark is gone. This sucks so bad, I can't believe it.

[3E8]

From a business prespective, no trade clauses are terrible...absolutly terrible. You're basically paying 56M dollars for an "asset", not unlike buying a home or a stock on the open market...and you're going to tell me that as part of the deal, I cannot resell you or trade you?

 

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

I don't blame the organization for this at all...closed-ended no trade clauses are bad business simply because we cannot see what the future holds. A more open no-trade clause is one thing, such as, you cannot trade me to these specific teams. I could understand a clause like that, but a flat out "you cannot trade or sell me no matter what clause" is bad in any form of business...it's just beyond stupid to enter into agreements such as this.

I agree. For an aging team on the decline with really talented youthful competitors, we can't afford to commit 15-20% of our payroll to one player and not have the option to trade them unless they are named Santana/Pujols. That said, when Buehrle is traded, it really is imperative KW gets an impressive haul. It should really not be that difficult considering the number of teams in contention and the market for starting pitchers at the moment.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

If Buehrle is traded:

 

To Mark, thanks. You have been a great asset to the Sox, a terrific teammate, and a class act all the way. We wish you nothing but the best, and all of us will remember 2005 and your contributions to bringing a World Championship here.

 

To the Sox, time to move on. That means trade anyone who can get you younger talent. Don't go halfway on this, like a guy with one foot on the dock and one foot in the rowboat. As other posters have said, it makes no sense to have Bobby Jenks on a team that will not be in competition for several years. If it is a mistake to trade Buerhle ( I'm not so sure), the way to compound the mistake is to think you can just fine-tune this team a little.

[ExpatNYC]

White Sox front office: you are decimating your fan base with this move. Resign him for the love of God. He's one of your own. He's had one off year. He's 28. Do you want to win or not?

[hitlesswonder]

I agree. For an aging team on the decline with really talented youthful competitors, we can't afford to commit 15-20% of our payroll to one player and not have the option to trade them unless they are named Santana/Pujols. That said, when Buehrle is traded, it really is imperative KW gets an impressive haul. It should really not be that difficult considering the number of teams in contention and the market for starting pitchers at the moment.

Alright, I'm over my disappointment now. You are right. The Sox simply need to clean house and trade every valuable pitcher they have (really, the only assets the organization has). In particular, Garland, Vazquez, and Jenks need to get moved as they will bring the biggest return.

[elrockinMT]

Step back everyone and let's hope this news is simply rumor. We don't know till we know. I agree with the need to sign Mark to a deal. We still have a very good nucleus for a winning ball club. Starting pitching is our strength and overall they are young, but have experience. You don't decimate your pitching staff and team leadership for a bunch of unknows. Look at what we have now in trades for young players expected to step up a deliver. Not much. I can see some trades being made, but not Buerhle, Garland & Vazquez. I don't put Danks in there simply because of his youth and I don't yet consider him to be major league ready or even a trade idea/option anyway. Contreras might go as well as some undeachieving relief pitchers and a FA to be outfielder. KW is running the risk of keeping this team at the bottom of the pack for quite awhile. if we lose our starting pitching for the sake of some wild rebuilding idea, which I don't think is really needed.

Edited June 30, 2007 by elrockinMT

[Kalapse]

Alright, I'm over my disappointment now. You are right. The Sox simply need to clean house and trade every valuable pitcher they have (really, the only assets the organization has). In particular, Garland, Vazquez, and Jenks need to get moved as they will bring the biggest return.

Yeah, pretty much.

[santo=dorf]

I find it really hard to believe that the Sox refused to give Buehrle a NTC when they gaave Vazquez, Contreras, and Garland one for some time.

[Kalapse]

I find it really hard to believe that the Sox refused to give Buehrle a NTC when they gaave Vazquez, Contreras, and Garland one for some time.

It's not the same thing. Buehrle is asking for a full no trade for the length of the deal. Garland's was for last year (the first year of his new contract), Contreras' was for this year (the first year of his new contract) and Vazquez' was for a couple west coast teams. Now add on the fact that Buehrle will be getting $20M+ more total than any of those deals and the fact that this team could go into rebuilding at anytime and it becomes even more believable.

[Mr. Showtime]

I find it really hard to believe that the Sox refused to give Buehrle a NTC when they gaave Vazquez, Contreras, and Garland one for some time.

 

Kalapse explained it earlier in the the thread. Mark wanted a full not trade over the 4 years. Javy has protection to teams he cannot go to, Count has one for this year only.

[mmmmmbeeer]

From Mark's perspective I completely understand why he wants the NTC. You give a hometown discount to stay in Chicago, they supposedly negotiated with family because the family wants the uncertainty of moving removed from the equation. Then the team says that they want the right to trade you, I'd run too.

 

From KW's vantage point, this is a good move. Giving Mark a full NTC is dealing with your heart instead of your mind. As a GM of a pro franchise, his heart should be left out of any and all negotiations. I have no doubt in my mind that he just dramatically increased Mark's value. He can now allow any team a negotiation window being the Sox now "officially" have no interest in signing him at the end of the year. From a purely intellectual business perspective, KW couldn't have played this any better.

 

Now there is no doubt in my mind that a large scale fire sale is about to begin. The only way KW can screw this up is if we've still got Contreras and Jim Thome on this team by August 1st. They both need to be gone as they have no role to play on a team in a rebuilding mode. And I'm with others who have thrown Jenks name out there, he needs to be dealt too.

[retro1983hat]

I am going to Monday's game .. MB's next start. If he takes the mound, no matter what happens, he deserves a five minute stand O.

[Kalapse]

After sleeping on it, I'm really not all that upset at all. As long as KW can get a nice haul in a deal for Buehrle I'll be fine with it.

[LVSoxFan]

When I saw this in the Sun-Times this morning my heart sank. I feel sick.

 

This is the worst I have felt as a Sox fan for years. Retaining Buehrle was the one bright side I could see to a season which is the worst I can remember (please don't bottle me with stories of the 80s/90s clubs--I know).

 

For a team that hit the highest of heights in '05, it is nothing short of remarkable how far and how fast we've fallen. From champs to last place in two seasons. I thought '05 was going to be the beginning of an era of at LEAST being a contender.

 

As for Buehrle, when you have a team that apparently is dying because of aging veterans who don't have the legs or the will to win, the idea that we're letting go of a PROVEN winner, workhorse and who is ONLY 28 YEARS OLD over a NTC is just appalling. Buehrle is the best of both worlds: young AND experienced AND not prone to injury. Why you would not build your rotation around him and Garland is beyond me.

 

He is the only one--the ONLY one--I see in the clubhouse that still exudes that '05 attitude and enthusiasm. I'm tired of people looking at checkbooks and fantasy baseball scenarios and not taking into account other factors that OBVIOUSLY made us what we were in 2005.

 

This was the one thing I was looking forward to this season at the very least. I also notice that Buehrle has made all the concessions, concessions he did not HAVE to make. That man can RAKE it in once he's through with us, and everybody knows it. For him to drop price and agree to four instead of five...

 

I am so over KW and this whole year. Really. Great: let's get rid of him and hope that we bring up (LOL) some LHP that will give us the package the way Buehrle did--what are the chances of that happening, with KW's record? PFft.

 

Dark days ahead. Ain't it amazing that Greg Walker still has a job but now apparently Buehrle is a goner?

 

f*** this.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I assume I'm in the minority in not caring that he did not sign. I'm looking forward to see what we can get for him.

[dagotony06]

This was all bulls*** to begin with. All these so called talks and the everything else was all bulls***. They never had any intention on signing the guy, it was all a PR move that blew up in their face, and should cost KW his f***ing job. This org. is so poorly run it is pathetic.

[fathom]

After sleeping on it, I'm really not all that upset at all. As long as KW can get a nice haul in a deal for Buehrle I'll be fine with it.

 

Me too....but we also have to get rid of Contreras as well.