Buehrle Fest

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can't trade someone on the DL.

Since when?

[Steff]

It's really hard to judge because of the time we all spend focusing on the Sox, but what "fandom" isn't a What have you done for me lately crowd? I think thats pretty common, but maybe Sox fans are more extreme?

 

I'm not. And most season ticket holders, the 12K crowd, not the "Oooo... I got Sox season tickets, look at the pretty WS logo..." are also not that way. I would agree that extreme is an excellent word to describe it.

[iamshack]

I'm not. And most season ticket holders, the 12K crowd, not the "Oooo... I got Sox season tickets, look at the pretty WS logo..." are also not that way. I would agree that extreme is an excellent word to describe it.

 

I'm really getting tired of this 12k crowd nonsense that you continue referring to. You're not taking into consideration any of the fans who are too young to have had season tickets pre-05' or those that are reaching the point in their career where they have enough dispensable income to afford season tickets for a baseball team.

 

I'm 30, been a fan since 1983, and yet, I've been in school for 20 years of my life. I've not yet reached a point (certainly for some fault of my own while in my twenties) that I can afford season tickets. That doesn't mean I don't attend 20 + games a year and watch nearly every one of the remaining 142 on television. I also consume as much public information as is available, and consider myself a very knowledgable fan.

 

Certainly, there are some bandwagon jumpers in the past few years. But believe it or not, there are more than 12,000 true and knowledgable fans that have been attending games for years and years.

Edited July 1, 2007 by iamshack

[whitesoxfan101]

Since when?

 

Umm since as long as I've been watching baseball. I don't remember the era where you could trade a guy on the DL.

[Chisoxfn]

Umm since as long as I've been watching baseball. I don't remember the era where you could trade a guy on the DL.

Ya, I know some teams will do it as a PTBNL and than once the player comes off the DL they are officially swapped but you can not actually trade a guy that is on the DL.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm since as long as I've been watching baseball. I don't remember the era where you could trade a guy on the DL.

 

So if I provide one example will everybody please STHU about it?

 

It happened in the year 2000, and involved a Chicago team.

[whitesoxfan101]

So if I provide one example will everybody please STHU about it?

 

It happened in the year 2000, and involved a Chicago team.

 

Umm could you be a bit more specific so we can explain to you why it worked.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm could you be a bit more specific so we can explain to you why it worked.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=660177&type=news

 

Now, he's got an established player, albeit a banged-up one.

 

 

White, a career .293 hitter, has been on the disabled list since July 8 with a strained right hamstring that forced him to miss a month last season. He's also had problems with his left knee.

 

 

The Cubs are hoping the grass at Wrigley Field will do for White's career what it once did for another player who made the Montreal-to-Chicago move -- Andre Dawson.

 

 

"Our doctors went over it rather judiciously and carefully. You can't ignore the fact there are probably and potentially some long-term concerns," MacPhail said Monday.

 

 

"There are always risks. If you are afraid of risks, you should be in a different business," MacPhail added. "I think the opportunity was unique for us to get somebody that we hoped would be a building block for future success."

 

 

The New York Yankees, Seattle, Atlanta and Milwaukee had been interested in White, but may have backed off because of the injuries.

 

 

In 1998 his season was ended in July when he fractured his right finger, trying to catch a line drive. In 1996, he missed 68 games because of a lacerated spleen and kidney contusion after diving for a ball at Coors Field.

 

 

"I anticipated Rondell would go to a contending team. But I can understand the reservations a contending team might have with a player currently on the DL," MacPhail said.

 

 

MacPhail said he was able to convince White the Cubs were moving in the right direction.

 

 

"My plan is to try and improve the team and I don't want to do the short-term band-aid approach. That's why a 28-year-old left fielder made sense to us," MacPhail said.

 

 

White was given a new contract, with a $4 million salary for next year and player options beyond that.

 

 

"We want to have balance, where it's not just all short expirations. His contract could expire at the end of 2001 or at the end of 2004. Each side has protections."

 

 

White is expected to join the Cubs on Tuesday. When he'll play isn't certain.

 

There you go. I hope I never see a "you can't trade him because he's on the DL" post again, unless there was some kind of rule change since 2000.

[JDsDirtySox]

Back to Mark Buehrle now...

Am I the only one who still thinks a deal to keep him with the Sox is gonna get done?

Edited July 2, 2007 by JDsDirtySox

[Steff]

I'm really getting tired of this 12k crowd nonsense that you continue referring to. You're not taking into consideration any of the fans who are too young to have had season tickets pre-05' or those that are reaching the point in their career where they have enough dispensable income to afford season tickets for a baseball team.

 

I'm 30, been a fan since 1983, and yet, I've been in school for 20 years of my life. I've not yet reached a point (certainly for some fault of my own while in my twenties) that I can afford season tickets. That doesn't mean I don't attend 20 + games a year and watch nearly every one of the remaining 142 on television. I also consume as much public information as is available, and consider myself a very knowledgable fan.

 

Certainly, there are some bandwagon jumpers in the past few years. But believe it or not, there are more than 12,000 true and knowledgable fans that have been attending games for years and years.

 

 

The season ticket base had been hovering between 12K and 15K before 2006 for nearly two decades. It was a solid pattern as new ones would join, old ones would fall off. Regardless, that decade of fans WITHOUT a World Series win in 70+ years bought tickets.

 

There is no need to spout off about being a knowledgable fan. I never said anything to imply you weren't.

 

And don't put words in my mouth and claim I said there weren't more than 12K TRUE fans. There are many more. They just don't put their money where their mouth is. They watch from home. Then... they come out when the team wins.

 

Some bandwagon jumpers...? Some...? When the base goes from just under 30K back down to the mid teens that'll show how many bandwagon jumpers there were. Hell.. many have already jumped off. There is no longer a wait list for tickets.

 

Back to Mark Buehrle now...

Am I the only one who still thinks a deal to keep him with the Sox is gonna get done?

 

 

 

 

Naa.. there's a lot of you. Hang in there.

[max power]

And don't put words in my mouth and claim I said there weren't more than 12K TRUE fans. There are many more. They just don't put their money where their mouth is. They watch from home. Then... they come out when the team wins.

Jeez, that's a bit harsh. Not everyone has enough money to even make that a decision.

[JDsDirtySox]

Naa.. there's a lot of you. Hang in there.

 

 

Whats your prediction Steff?

[max power]

Think about the younger people, too. Some of the sox biggest fans are in their teens.

 

They don't have money.

[Chisoxfn]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=660177&type=news

There you go. I hope I never see a "you can't trade him because he's on the DL" post again, unless there was some kind of rule change since 2000.

Well done. I have one remaining question, was this trade okay because technically he could have been pulled from the 15 day DL (as he had already been on the DL for 15 days at the time of the trade) or would it have been okay if he was placed on the DL a day ago.

 

I assume it would have still been okay regardless of when you were placed on the DL but I was going to see if you knew for sure.

 

Thanks for the info too.

[iamshack]

The season ticket base had been hovering between 12K and 15K before 2006 for nearly two decades. It was a solid pattern as new ones would join, old ones would fall off. Regardless, that decade of fans WITHOUT a World Series win in 70+ years bought tickets.

 

There is no need to spout off about being a knowledgable fan. I never said anything to imply you weren't.

 

And don't put words in my mouth and claim I said there weren't more than 12K TRUE fans. There are many more. They just don't put their money where their mouth is. They watch from home. Then... they come out when the team wins.

 

Some bandwagon jumpers...? Some...? When the base goes from just under 30K back down to the mid teens that'll show how many bandwagon jumpers there were. Hell.. many have already jumped off. There is no longer a wait list for tickets.

Naa.. there's a lot of you. Hang in there.

 

What would you expect after winning a World Series title? The season ticket base to decrease? Believe me, we all appreciate those fans who stuck it out while the organization was struggling through the mid-to-late 80's and early nineties, and certainly again in the late nineties and 2002-2004. However, you often imply that because you and some other loyal fans have been buying season tickets for years, that you somehow know far more than the rest of the fanbase or are somehow more entitled to your opinion or are somehow more correct in your opinions.

 

I disagree.

 

You are certainly a loyal fan for laying out the cash for the season tickets over the years. But plenty of others have been laying out as much cash as they feasibly could for the team, including myself. There are a hell of a lot more knowledgable and dedicated Sox fans than your "12k crowd."

[bighurt574]

The season ticket base had been hovering between 12K and 15K before 2006 for nearly two decades. It was a solid pattern as new ones would join, old ones would fall off. Regardless, that decade of fans WITHOUT a World Series win in 70+ years bought tickets.

 

There is no need to spout off about being a knowledgable fan. I never said anything to imply you weren't.

 

And don't put words in my mouth and claim I said there weren't more than 12K TRUE fans. There are many more. They just don't put their money where their mouth is. They watch from home. Then... they come out when the team wins.

 

Some bandwagon jumpers...? Some...? When the base goes from just under 30K back down to the mid teens that'll show how many bandwagon jumpers there were. Hell.. many have already jumped off. There is no longer a wait list for tickets.

Naa.. there's a lot of you. Hang in there.

 

The new 15-18k of season ticket holders, did they come out of nowhere? I would imagine most had been buying tickets to some number of games a year and used the World Series run as a reason to take the plunge and buy season tickets. Does that make them bandwagon fans?

[chisox2334]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Mark Buehrle's teammates have joked for the last few weeks about the White Sox ace possibly making his final start for the team.

 

"It's one of those things that I'm not too concerned about," said Buehrle, who is scheduled to start Monday night at U.S. Cellular Field against the Orioles.

 

 

 

It could be the final hurrah for Buehrle with the Sox, who enter the final homestand of the season's first half knowing they must do more than win series from opponents.

 

"I think we can (make a run) ...," Buehrle said Sunday after Jon Garland allowed no earned runs in seven innings of a 3-1 victory over Kansas City to complete a 6-1 trip. "I mean, we can get on a roll and start winning every series from here on out. But the teams in front of us, the way they're playing, it might be too late.

 

"But we can't go out there and think like that. We have to try and get every series. It's hard to try and think sweep, but until the teams in front of us start losing, that's the only way we can make up that ground."

 

The Sox's situation has left general manager Ken Williams with the daunting task of trying to get championship-caliber play out of his players less than two years after they won a World Series.

 

Williams will have no shortage of suitors for Buehrle, who has won 102 games with the Sox and is on target for his seventh consecutive 200-plus innings season.

 

In addition to the Mets and Braves, the Dodgers, Red Sox and Brewers are expected to increase their interest in Buehrle. Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein watched his top pitching prospect, Clay Buchholz, pitch five no-hit innings Saturday night for Double-A Portland against New Hampshire.

 

The right-handed Buchholz, 22, has a 6-2 record and a 1.69 ERA with 115 strikeouts and only 21walks in 85 1/3 innings. He's the type of pitcher Williams must land to quickly alleviate any fallout he receives if he deals the popular Buehrle.

 

Astros slugger Lance Berkman is a Buehrle fan.

 

"To me a guy like Mark Buehrle, whose coming up (on free agency) would be a perfect guy to try to sign," Berkman told the Houston Chronicle. "Like Carlos (Lee) is saying, it may not happen (with the Sox). But you get a guy like that and you add him to what we have here, I think you got a real good mix."

 

Buehrle wasn't sure he would receive a warm greeting Monday night, based on his contract status and the strong possibility he could be dealt before the July 31 non-waiver trading deadline.

 

But manager Ozzie Guillen seemed certain Buehrle would receive a hero's welcome.

 

"Mark's done a lot of good things for this organization, and fans respect that," Guillen said. "Hopefully, they go out and support him. Mark is still with us. As long as he's with us, I just pencil him in every five days. That's all I can do."

 

Buehrle isn't pressing for a resolution from the Sox but admits his clouded status has been difficult.

 

"You know what's going to happen (at the start of the year), but when it actually hits you, it's a little more stressful," Buehrle said. "You think about it a little bit more. I'm an even-keel guy and don't let that stuff bother me. But it's in the back of my mind. It doesn't affect the way I pitch and the way I do my job."

 

The trade clock also could resume ticking for right fielder Jermaine Dye, who ran the bases without any noticeable limp during batting practice as he recovers from a quadriceps injury. Dye, like Buehrle, is a free agent and could be attractive to National League West title contenders in need of a right-handed hitter.

 

Dye didn't seem happy Saturday that the Sox had resumed negotiations with Buehrle but not with him.

 

"That's why I haven't talked about it," Buehrle said. "It's been a big media circus with the whole contract in the papers every day. That's why I said I didn't want to be a distraction for the rest of the team. So I'm not talking about it."

[Steff]

Jeez, that's a bit harsh. Not everyone has enough money to even make that a decision.

 

 

And not just cash strapped college kids are Sox fans. There are plenty of folks with plenty of disposable income who choose not to spend money unless the Sox are winning. That's my point.

 

The new 15-18k of season ticket holders, did they come out of nowhere? I would imagine most had been buying tickets to some number of games a year and used the World Series run as a reason to take the plunge and buy season tickets. Does that make them bandwagon fans?

 

No, and I never said it did. It makes them "what have you done for me lately" fans. The ones that follow the team, but don't shell out the cash until there's a chance of an appearance in the post season.

 

What would you expect after winning a World Series title? The season ticket base to decrease? Believe me, we all appreciate those fans who stuck it out while the organization was struggling through the mid-to-late 80's and early nineties, and certainly again in the late nineties and 2002-2004. However, you often imply that because you and some other loyal fans have been buying season tickets for years, that you somehow know far more than the rest of the fanbase or are somehow more entitled to your opinion or are somehow more correct in your opinions.

 

I disagree.

 

You are certainly a loyal fan for laying out the cash for the season tickets over the years. But plenty of others have been laying out as much cash as they feasibly could for the team, including myself. There are a hell of a lot more knowledgable and dedicated Sox fans than your "12k crowd."

 

 

I never said such a thing, and I don't know why you keep attempting to make my words out to be something more than they are. I said they are "what have you done for me lately" fans. That does not equal bandwagon jumpers in any way, shape, or form. As for me thinking my opinion or knowledge is greater because I spend money... that's you just making s*** up because I would never say such a think because it's NOT TRUE, especially on the knowledge part.

 

 

Yes, I am aware many others have been dishing out money to see the Sox... and I am also aware there are many more knowledgable Sox fans out there. I never said there weren't so if you could stop implying that I did, I would appreciate that.

 

 

Think about the younger people, too. Some of the sox biggest fans are in their teens.

 

They don't have money.

 

 

And when they do, they will replace the older fans that will move on to spending their money on something else.

 

Whats your prediction Steff?

 

 

No idea. But I trust the Sox will do what is right for the team long term.

[WCSox]

No idea. But I trust the Sox will do what is right for the team long term.

 

Or at least what they THINK is right for the long-term. The refusal to give big contracts to any of their studs back in the mid-'90s and the fact that they were proven right in hindsight strongly suggests which way they're leaning. As does their recent extension of Javy and acquisition of two young LHSPs.

 

I foresee a lot of extremely pissed off fans here later this month. I hope that I'm wrong.

Edited July 2, 2007 by WCSox

[NorthSideSox72]

Back to Mark Buehrle now...

Am I the only one who still thinks a deal to keep him with the Sox is gonna get done?

I was very confident before, but this NTC discussion has given me serious doubts. I understand the reason behind not wanting to give full NTC's, but it sure does seem like a shame to pass on such a great deal for all sides, just based on the difference between full and partial NTC over his 2nd and 3rd seasons in the contract (which is what it amounts to).

[kapkomet]

As I contended on page three of this thread: there's a LOT more going on then the media has reported. This whole thing was bulls*** from the beginning and it was a giant smokescreen, IMO. My opinion never changed from day one of this season, and it still hasn't. MB will not pitch for the White Sox beyond this season. The only difference now is: it's more just a matter of when he's traded.

 

KW's "slip-up" at Soxfest told us what to expect, and this "change of heart" crap that was talked about in the media last week was just a bunch of hooey to get Sox fans to think they were trying. I am really beginning to think that both sides were just posturing for the inevitable.

 

I really now expect MB to make his last start at Comiskey (as a part of this ball club, anyway) tonight.

 

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll say so. Nothing in the past 10 days has told me anything different then what was said going into the season.

[BigSqwert]

As I contended on page three of this thread: there's a LOT more going on then the media has reported. This whole thing was bulls*** from the beginning and it was a giant smokescreen, IMO. My opinion never changed from day one of this season, and it still hasn't. MB will not pitch for the White Sox beyond this season. The only difference now is: it's more just a matter of when he's traded.

 

KW's "slip-up" at Soxfest told us what to expect, and this "change of heart" crap that was talked about in the media last week was just a bunch of hooey to get Sox fans to think they were trying. I am really beginning to think that both sides were just posturing for the inevitable.

 

I really now expect MB to make his last start at Comiskey (as a part of this ball club, anyway) tonight.

 

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll say so. Nothing in the past 10 days has told me anything different then what was said going into the season.

You may be right....for once.

[chisox2334]

dont really care anymore its not worth to stress over something we cant control or handle. I will say this Ozzie asked get bad karma out of locker room lee, maggs, thomas, etc. The rest is not ozzie's decision. They make ask him but he has no choice but to give the old PR move. I wish ozzie state how he really feels about not paying Buerhle. If Ozzie didnt agree he be fired but no he takes company line say o well. So since he does that he will be given four year extension

[LVSoxFan]

That's an interesting point: where is Ozzie on all this? We've heard that he's been quick to get rid of players he thought were attitude problems, so I'm curious why he wouldn't be all over KW to retain a proven leader and clubhouse favorite and probably the biggest cheerleader the team has, now that Rowand is gone.

 

I just don't understand why we're trading away a young PROVEN pitcher for hopes of rebuidling with young UNKNOWN pitchers. That doesn't sounds like "rebuilding"--sorry--that sounds like a return to "The Experiment" years.

 

No thanks.

[WCSox]

As I contended on page three of this thread: there's a LOT more going on then the media has reported. This whole thing was bulls*** from the beginning and it was a giant smokescreen, IMO. My opinion never changed from day one of this season, and it still hasn't. MB will not pitch for the White Sox beyond this season. The only difference now is: it's more just a matter of when he's traded.

 

KW's "slip-up" at Soxfest told us what to expect, and this "change of heart" crap that was talked about in the media last week was just a bunch of hooey to get Sox fans to think they were trying. I am really beginning to think that both sides were just posturing for the inevitable.

 

I really now expect MB to make his last start at Comiskey (as a part of this ball club, anyway) tonight.

 

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll say so. Nothing in the past 10 days has told me anything different then what was said going into the season.

 

Good info here.

 

I hope that the people cursing KW read this post. How many huge contracts with indefinite no-trade clauses did Ron Schueler and Larry Himes give to veteran pitchers with 1,200+ innings on their arms? Did you guys ever stop to consider that JR & Co. might be responsible for this policy? When was the last time that a Sox GM had free reign to spend however he wished?

Edited July 2, 2007 by WCSox