Buehrle Fest

[kapkomet]

The history backs up JR in this case. That's partially why it's such a hard thing to watch for me. They (Sox mgmt) are almost always in the right on long term deals... but I like MB in a Sox uniform just like the rest of you. MB is the ultimate "feel good" story (drafted in the 38th round only to end up being an all-star), and I like the guy on our club. It's agonizing... yet, the facts say he's gawn.

[J-MAN]

I'm really getting tired of this 12k crowd nonsense that you continue referring to. You're not taking into consideration any of the fans who are too young to have had season tickets pre-05' or those that are reaching the point in their career where they have enough dispensable income to afford season tickets for a baseball team.

 

I'm 30, been a fan since 1983, and yet, I've been in school for 20 years of my life. I've not yet reached a point (certainly for some fault of my own while in my twenties) that I can afford season tickets. That doesn't mean I don't attend 20 + games a year and watch nearly every one of the remaining 142 on television. I also consume as much public information as is available, and consider myself a very knowledgable fan.

 

Certainly, there are some bandwagon jumpers in the past few years. But believe it or not, there are more than 12,000 true and knowledgable fans that have been attending games for years and years.

 

Great post! Like you I have been a Sox fan longer than I can remember and finally bought season tickets last year. I don't consider myself a band wagon jumper - has always been a Sox fan who went to games when he could - the world series team pushed me over the edge and we were fortunate enough to get a friend to take half the games.

[Steff]

Great post! Like you I have been a Sox fan longer than I can remember and finally bought season tickets last year. I don't consider myself a band wagon jumper - has always been a Sox fan who went to games when he could - the world series team pushed me over the edge and we were fortunate enough to get a friend to take half the games.

 

 

Awesome! That's TWO of you. How about the other 15 thousand....

 

:brickwall

[LVSoxFan]

Guys, the "real" Sox fan contest always turns into an idiot fest. No matter how much merch you have, how many games you've gone to, how many you've watched, and how many times you've posted here, there's always going to be that One Guy who's got you beat, LOL.

 

Which is why the argument is futile. So don't worry about defending yourselves--I'm sure you love the Sox just as much as anybody.

 

As far as the bandwagon jumpers, I'd say they're pretty much gone now, as anybody who goes to the park can tell you. And thank God. It's not unique to the Sox, really: this happens when any major league team finally DOES it.

 

I hear that Detroit games are impossible to get into this year for the same reason (and they LOST). Ebb and flow, boys, ebb and flow.

 

And FYI I had season tix in '05 but haven't since because I don't need 'em. I'm always buying a single ticket to go stand with my friends in our concourse spot so... so much for the season tix being the indicator of a true Sox fan.

 

When somebody challenges your Sox credentials, just nod and move on.

[The Critic]

Sox fans always pride themselves on being knowledgable and demanding performance, otherwise "we vote with our wallets". It's one of the main differences I hear Sox fans claim when discussing Cubs fans vs. Sox fans. Based on this theory, if demanding and knowledgable Sox fans rewarded the Sox' success with increased spending or new season ticket purchases, it stands to reason that these same fans would reduce or drop those season ticket plans following a bad season & trades of guys like Buerhle, Dye and Iguchi.

 

I don't know if that qualifies as "bandwagoning", but I can see where a fan of another team could see it that way.

 

I do believe that we'll see a significant drop-off in season ticket numbers. I doubt it would drop to 12 or 13, but 15 or 16K sounds likely to me if the Sox go the route of trading their impending free agents for prospects that many fans wouldn't be familiar with.

[Chisoxfn]

Buster Olney was on first take and basically said that every GM in the league are stunned at the White Sox unwillingness to sign Buehrle to the 4yr 56 million dollar deal.

 

He claimed baseball insiders consider it a total bargain, especially considering the contract Zito had as well as other contracts that were given out to pitchers with far less success as Buehrle.

[Steff]

Sox fans always pride themselves on being knowledgable and demanding performance, otherwise "we vote with our wallets". It's one of the main differences I hear Sox fans claim when discussing Cubs fans vs. Sox fans. Based on this theory, if demanding and knowledgable Sox fans rewarded the Sox' success with increased spending or new season ticket purchases, it stands to reason that these same fans would reduce or drop those season ticket plans following a bad season & trades of guys like Buerhle, Dye and Iguchi.

 

I don't know if that qualifies as "bandwagoning", but I can see where a fan of another team could see it that way.

 

I do believe that we'll see a significant drop-off in season ticket numbers. I doubt it would drop to 12 or 13, but 15 or 16K sounds likely to me if the Sox go the route of trading their impending free agents for prospects that many fans wouldn't be familiar with.

 

 

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

And for the record I didn't, and wouldn't, call that "bandwagoning"

[kapkomet]

Buster Olney was on first take and basically said that every GM in the league are stunned at the White Sox unwillingness to sign Buehrle to the 4yr 56 million dollar deal.

 

He claimed baseball insiders consider it a total bargain, especially considering the contract Zito had as well as other contracts that were given out to pitchers with far less success as Buehrle.

Which is why I think the whole thing was bulls*** from the beginning.

[LVSoxFan]

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

And for the record I didn't, and wouldn't, call that "bandwagoning"

 

I second this, and have been saying this for years. That's why I love Sox fans.

[iamshack]

I never said such a thing, and I don't know why you keep attempting to make my words out to be something more than they are. I said they are "what have you done for me lately" fans. That does not equal bandwagon jumpers in any way, shape, or form. As for me thinking my opinion or knowledge is greater because I spend money... that's you just making s*** up because I would never say such a think because it's NOT TRUE, especially on the knowledge part.

Yes, I am aware many others have been dishing out money to see the Sox... and I am also aware there are many more knowledgable Sox fans out there. I never said there weren't so if you could stop implying that I did, I would appreciate that.

 

You sure as hell do imply that you are more knowledgable and that your opinion somehow matters more, Steff. And you know what, I absolutely believe that you do know more than most and I value your opinion more than most. I guess I just wish that you would not preface it so often in the fact that you have been a member of the "12k crowd" and just let your opinions rest on the fact that you are an intelligent, loyal, and dilligent fan of the team. Because while you certainly do understand this team and organization, there are plenty of people in that 12k crowd that don't know jack sh*t despite years and years of going to the Park.

[kapkomet]

You sure as hell do imply that you are more knowledgable and that your opinion somehow matters more, Steff. And you know what, I absolutely believe that you do know more than most and I value your opinion more than most. I guess I just wish that you would not preface it so often in the fact that you have been a member of the "12k crowd" and just let your opinions rest on the fact that you are an intelligent, loyal, and dilligent fan of the team. Because while you certainly do understand this team and organization, there are plenty of people in that 12k crowd that don't know jack sh*t despite years and years of going to the Park.

Wow, I think the post you quoted by Steff was pretty crystal clear, and you turn around and says that she implies she knows more then most? Well, it's because she does, she doesn't have to "imply it". You said it yourself later on in this post. Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics now? The semantics of this is starting to get silly.

[Steff]

You sure as hell do imply that you are more knowledgable and that your opinion somehow matters more, Steff. And you know what, I absolutely believe that you do know more than most and I value your opinion more than most. I guess I just wish that you would not preface it so often in the fact that you have been a member of the "12k crowd" and just let your opinions rest on the fact that you are an intelligent, loyal, and dilligent fan of the team. Because while you certainly do understand this team and organization, there are plenty of people in that 12k crowd that don't know jack sh*t despite years and years of going to the Park.

 

 

If I do that I apologize as it is not my intention.

 

And AGAIN, I was using the 12K crowd to make a point about the Sox fan base being a "do something and I will reward you with my money" crowd, a point Critic made above nicely, not to make a point that they know any more than anyone else. Trust me... we've had some real morons around us over the past 30+ years. Unfortunately where our tickets have been over the years we have our share of the high income, baseball illerate, cell phone talking, camera waving jerks.

 

And I would put at least 20 other posters here ahead of me in terms of the level of detail they know about this team.

[The Critic]

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

And for the record I didn't, and wouldn't, call that "bandwagoning"

I wasn't trying to imply that you said that, Steff.

I was just referring to all the talk of bandwagon fans lately.

I don't always see a difference between being a "discerning fan" who doesn't go to games when the team doesn't perform, and being a "bandwagon fan" who only goes when they do. People can make the argument either way - someone who goes to Sox games no matter what can call themselves "die-hard fans", yet that same person may mock Cubs fans who go to games no matter how bad the team is.

[WCSox]

Which is why I think the whole thing was bulls*** from the beginning.

 

Yet everybody treats it like gospel because the media keeps repeating it. :oldrolleyes

[Steff]

I wasn't trying to imply that you said that, Steff.

I was just referring to all the talk of bandwagon fans lately.

I don't always see a difference between being a "discerning fan" who doesn't go to games when the team doesn't perform, and being a "bandwagon fan" who only goes when they do. People can make the argument either way - someone who goes to Sox games no matter what can call themselves "die-hard fans", yet that same person may mock Cubs fans who go to games no matter how bad the team is.

 

 

Oh, I know.

 

I just wanted to make it clear for J-MAN since from his post it seemed he didn't see it the previous times I stated it.

 

LOL.. I guess I can be mocked since I continue to pay

 

 

[iamshack]

Wow, I think the post you quoted by Steff was pretty crystal clear, and you turn around and says that she implies she knows more then most? Well, it's because she does, she doesn't have to "imply it". You said it yourself later on in this post. Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics now? The semantics of this is starting to get silly.

 

First of all, I wasn't asking you. Second of all, you've obviously misunderstood the entire point of the exercise.

 

And by the way, speaking of mental gymnastics, you've been patting yourself on the back for the last 5 days now by claiming that you were correct in stating that these Buehrle negotiations were bs. And yet, you haven't made any explicit points or educated guesses about what the real story is, just that this whole thing is bs and the organization is trying to somehow fool the fanbase into thinking they have tried to sign Mark.

 

It's very easy to claim something that is a longshot to happen is bs and that it won't happen, and then take credit for being correct in your original assertion as if you did anything other than take the side that had 75% of happening, and bucking the side that had 25% of happening. It's not very difficult.

 

The insight you've given us is that this is the organization's effort to trick the fanbase and not look bad for not re-signing Mark. And yet, if they fail to re-sign Mark, the organization will look exponentially worse now than had Kenny just traded Mark a week ago when the Boston rumors were swirling. Why the organization would take the fanbase on some roller coaster ride all weekend which ends crashing and burning just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[kapkomet]

I'm clearly a bandwagon fan, because I don't live in or near Chicago.

 

First of all, I wasn't asking you. Second of all, you've obviously misunderstood the entire point of the exercise.

 

And by the way, speaking of mental gymnastics, you've been patting yourself on the back for the last 5 days now by claiming that you were correct in stating that these Buehrle negotiations were bs. And yet, you haven't made any explicit points or educated guesses about what the real story is, just that this whole thing is bs and the organization is trying to somehow fool the fanbase into thinking they have tried to sign Mark.

 

It's very easy to claim something that is a longshot to happen is bs and that it won't happen, and then take credit for being correct in your original assertion as if you did anything other than take the side that had 75% of happening, and bucking the side that had 25% of happening. It's not very difficult.

 

The insight you've given us is that this is the organization's effort to trick the fanbase and not look bad for not re-signing Mark. And yet, if they fail to re-sign Mark, the organization will look exponentially worse now than had Kenny just traded Mark a week ago when the Boston rumors were swirling. Why the organization would take the fanbase on some roller coaster ride all weekend which ends crashing and burning just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You're just so smart. I just can't keep up with you. I'm not even going to try. Go ahead, raise yourself above EVERYONE else on this board and keep talking down to the masses no matter what their opinions are, right or wrong, clear or not. You argue with everyone, no matter what their stance is, and I'm sick of it. If you want to carry on, that's your business. That was more my point, and now you have to go throwing out more s*** just to make yourself look better.

 

For the record, I could care less if they sign Mark, or not - it's not about me or whether or not I was right or wrong. I hope they do, but I never saw it, and that's it. I am mocking the Sox, not anyone on this board or their opinion, unlike you. The last sentance of your post, I agree, and can respect. It's the other bantering that's getting old. Is that more clear for you?

[The Critic]

LOL.. I guess I can be mocked since I continue to pay

YOOOOU KEEEEEEP PAYYYYYINNNG, NYAH NYAH NYAHNYAHNYAHHHHH!!!

 

[LVSoxFan]

Why are you all fighting? I think we can all agree we're pissed about this Buehrle thing (it makes me ill like never before) or at the least the way it's been handled.

 

Let's not turn on each other. That's just what KW would want.

 

LOL!

 

[JDsDirtySox]

I am still going on record as saying this deal will happen.

[kapkomet]

I hope you're right, JD. Then I can have egg all over my face.

 

iamshack, you're probably already firing away in response - but let's just cool it (all of us). It's silly to keep this going. I think we're all on the same page, and we're arguing over semantics. It's just annoying that it seems like the end of the road is near for MB. Casual fan, die hard, season ticket holder, whatever. I think all of us will hate to see that guy in another uniform if it happens.

Edited July 2, 2007 by kapkomet

[iamshack]

I'm clearly a bandwagon fan, because I don't live in or near Chicago.

You're just so smart. I just can't keep up with you. I'm not even going to try. Go ahead, raise yourself above EVERYONE else on this board and keep talking down to the masses no matter what their opinions are, right or wrong, clear or not. You argue with everyone, no matter what their stance is, and I'm sick of it. If you want to carry on, that's your business. That was more my point, and now you have to go throwing out more s*** just to make yourself look better.

 

For the record, I could care less if they sign Mark, or not - it's not about me or whether or not I was right or wrong. I hope they do, but I never saw it, and that's it. I am mocking the Sox, not anyone on this board or their opinion, unlike you. The last sentance of your post, I agree, and can respect. It's the other bantering that's getting old. Is that more clear for you?

 

That's really not it at all.

 

I don't talk down to anyone, I try to change misperceptions they have about the organization. My apologies if that comes off as rude.

 

But I am tired of people firing off at the organization based on misperceptions they have. I don't blame the fanbase for this as much as I blame the Chicago journalists. If you check my record of posts on this forum, you will see that I have continually attacked the irresponsible journalism which occurs in this town far more than I have "talked down" to anyone. When I do, people tell me to ignore columnists such as Mariotti because I am contributing to his employer's bottom line. And yet, the net result is a large percentage of our fanbase continues to be misinformed about how the organization is run and the direction in which it is going. Then, when something like this Buehrle fiasco ensues, we see posts like "Reinsdorf is trying to build his retirement fund," or "the Sox are trying to spin this entire situation so they don't appear cheap." It's just simply not the case.

 

Any diligent and accurate research into the way the organization has been run in the past 10-15 years will prove otherwise.

 

And it just pains me to see fans frustrated or giving up on the organization because they have been mislead to believe the nonsense they have. So I try to correct that once in a while.

Edited July 2, 2007 by iamshack

[kapkomet]

That's really not it at all.

 

I don't talk down to anyone, I try to change misperceptions they have about the organization. My apologies if that comes off as rude.

 

But I am tired of people firing off at the organization based on misperceptions they have. I don't blame the fanbase for this as much as I believe the Chicago journalists. If you check my record of posts on this forum, you will see that I have continually attacked the irresponsible journalism which occurs in this town far more than I have "talked down" to anyone. When I do, people tell me to ignore columnists such as Mariotti because I am contributing to his employer's bottom line. And yet, the net result is a large percentage of our fanbase continues to be misinformed about how the organization is run and the direction in which it is going. Then, when something like this Buehrle fiasco ensues, we see posts like "Reinsdorf is trying to build his retirement fund," or "the Sox are trying to spin this entire situation so they don't appear cheap." It's just simply not the case.

 

Any diligent and accurate research into the way the organization has been run in the past 10-15 years will prove otherwise.

 

And it just pains me to see fans frustrated or giving up on the organization because they have been mislead to believe the nonsense they have. So I try to correct that once in a while.

 

We're definitely on the same page on this one. I'm not going to rehash some of the things that my perception has led me to regarding your posts. This sums up your thoughts pretty well.

 

As an organization, I think the Sox have done pretty well - you never see me throwing out the blanket statements - JR and his group has been the best ownership group Chicago has seen, bar none, over its sports history.

 

Have they made mistakes? Yep. Is the MB issue a "mistake"? Only time will tell. No matter what, I hope MB will be in a Sox uniform for years to come. I just don't think it is going to happen, and I think BOTH sides are playing the media like a fiddle. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle, and I also think that there's a lot more to this story then what's been leaked by both sides.

[RibbieRubarb]

Oh, I know.

 

I just wanted to make it clear for J-MAN since from his post it seemed he didn't see it the previous times I stated it.

 

LOL.. I guess I can be mocked since I continue to pay

 

Thats why I stopped paying...So I can no longer be mocked.

[Harry Chappas]

We're definitely on the same page on this one. I'm not going to rehash some of the things that my perception has led me to regarding your posts. This sums up your thoughts pretty well.

 

As an organization, I think the Sox have done pretty well - you never see me throwing out the blanket statements - JR and his group has been the best ownership group Chicago has seen, bar none, over its sports history.

 

Have they made mistakes? Yep. Is the MB issue a "mistake"? Only time will tell. No matter what, I hope MB will be in a Sox uniform for years to come. I just don't think it is going to happen, and I think BOTH sides are playing the media like a fiddle. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle, and I also think that there's a lot more to this story then what's been leaked by both sides.

 

Haven't both sides agreed that it comes down to a complete NTC. Is either side denying these reports?