WSoxMatt Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(vandy125 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:17 PM) The Sox really need to give in to the NTC. From most of the fan's perspective that I have seen and most of the analysts, he is giving the Sox too good of a deal. By not doing this, they are finding a very big way to alienate fans. If the Sox give in to MB for a full no trade, then next year they will have to give in to Garland, and in the future all Sox starters will want the NTC...Then you get a staff with 3-4 starters with NTC and the Sox would be screwed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:23 PM) If the Sox give in to MB for a full no trade, then next year they will have to give in to Garland, and in the future all Sox starters will want the NTC...Then you get a staff with 3-4 starters with NTC and the Sox would be screwed... You tell them tough s*** unless they've earned it like Buerhle has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHolyBovine Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:17 PM) He's put up cumulative numbers almost identical to those of Mark Buehrle since the start of the 2005 season. His peripherals are garbage, unlike MB. His decline will be steep and unforgiving as he ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:23 PM) If the Sox give in to MB for a full no trade, then next year they will have to give in to Garland, and in the future all Sox starters will want the NTC...Then you get a staff with 3-4 starters with NTC and the Sox would be screwed... I guess we're going to have to start giving every pitcher 4 year contracts as well if Buehrle signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:23 PM) If the Sox give in to MB for a full no trade, then next year they will have to give in to Garland, and in the future all Sox starters will want the NTC...Then you get a staff with 3-4 starters with NTC and the Sox would be screwed... MB is clearly in a different category than Garland and any other Sox pitcher. They have already shown that they think so by offering him a 4-year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(TheHolyBovine @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:25 PM) His peripherals are garbage, unlike MB. His decline will be steep and unforgiving as he ages. Their peripherals are almost identical. 3-31-05 - 6-27-07 GS IP H ER HR BB K HBP ERA WHIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 K/BB PITCHER A 79 533.6 568 230 69 105 307 13 3.88 1.26 5.2 1.8 1.16 2.92 PITCHER B 79 536.6 551 231 59 117 273 17 3.87 1.24 4.6 2.0 0.99 2.33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:29 PM) Their peripherals are almost identical. 3-31-05 - 6-27-07 GS IP H ER HR BB K HBP ERA WHIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 K/BB PITCHER A 79 533.6 568 230 69 105 307 13 3.88 1.26 5.2 1.8 1.16 2.92 PITCHER B 79 536.6 551 231 59 117 273 17 3.87 1.24 4.6 2.0 0.99 2.33 coughpwndcough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDsDirtySox Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 If what ESPN is reporting is true... I have lost faith in Kenny Williams. If Mark Buehrle is willing to try to make this work and the Sox aren't that is ridiculous. Screw You Kenny, Jerry, Rick, and Anyone else involved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingish Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 07:23 PM) If the Sox give in to MB for a full no trade, then next year they will have to give in to Garland, and in the future all Sox starters will want the NTC...Then you get a staff with 3-4 starters with NTC and the Sox would be screwed... Tell me, have other teams given players full No Trade protection, and then gone on to sign other free agents without giving them the same NTC? Of course they have, almost every team has at one point or another. To pretend like this is some situation without precedent isn't really being honest about it. This wouldn't be the first NTC ever given to a player by a team, and it would do nothing to impede their ability to sign future contracts without NTC's because it's been proven to be so in the past with other teams that have done the exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 09:28 PM) The Sox continue to dig themselves in a terrible, terrible hole. But don't you look at this like Rosenthal did? That this is too close for no deal to happen? There just seem to be so many potential compromises, if Mark is willing to accept some trade risk, that allow the Sox to save face, too. How can this not happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 So just for future reference, No Boras clients and nobody that wants a NTC. Maybe Kenny plan on plyaing oompaloompas next year. The way the clowns are running this organization baffles me. I wish we could trade our GM/ownership policies. They suck a long one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:37 PM) But don't you look at this like Rosenthal did? That this is too close for no deal to happen? There just seem to be so many potential compromises, if Mark is willing to accept some trade risk, that allow the Sox to save face, too. How can this not happen? Because honestly, for whatever reason it seems like the Sox don't want to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:37 PM) But don't you look at this like Rosenthal did? That this is too close for no deal to happen? There just seem to be so many potential compromises, if Mark is willing to accept some trade risk, that allow the Sox to save face, too. How can this not happen? Stubborness in applying company policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 The Sox obviously don't want Mark Buehrle back, AND they won't give NTC's or talk to Boras. Enjoy 2005 everybody, it won't happen again until we have a new GM and Owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:41 PM) The Sox obviously don't want Mark Buehrle back, AND they won't give NTC's or talk to Boras. Enjoy 2005 everybody, it won't happen again until we have a new GM and Owner. did you break your jaw with that kneejerk, Mariotti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:28 PM) The Sox continue to dig themselves in a terrible, terrible hole. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267 Well this is not about the NTC then. Its a bunch of smoke and mirrors. The 17 million dollar accelerator would only affect him on trade. Hopefully KW gets back something worth it, or the natives will be very restless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:41 PM) The Sox obviously don't want Mark Buehrle back, AND they won't give NTC's or talk to Boras. Enjoy 2005 everybody, it won't happen again until we have a new GM and Owner. I think you are right, enjoy 2005. We won't sign Boras clients or NTC seeking players. Do they realize that half the good players out there will seek this. How assinine is the White Sox brain trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 09:39 PM) Because honestly, for whatever reason it seems like the Sox don't want to get it done. Then why take him off the table in trade talks? Especially when every team reportedly has taken any top prospect off the table? See, I stopped following all this a week ago...every time I'm out...they pull me back IN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxMatt Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) and when its all said and done, the Sox will re-sign him, if not they ride it out and get 2 draft picks...Sox arent going to get what they want in trade Edited July 8, 2007 by WSoxMatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:42 PM) did you break your jaw with that kneejerk, Mariotti? Can you read or see, Hellen Keller? I've admitted I wanted us to trade Mark UNTIL I saw 4/56 and a NTC is all he wanted. To not give somebody that good 4/56 a NTC, AND THEN when he gives in still say no means you don't want him. And we will NEVER win if we refuse to give any players a NTC or talk to Boras clients. It's not that hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:44 PM) Can you read or see, Hellen Keller? I've admitted I wanted us to trade Mark UNTIL I saw 4/56 and a NTC is all he wanted. To not give somebody that good 4/56 a NTC, AND THEN when he gives in still say no means you don't want him. And we will NEVER win if we refuse to give any players a NTC or talk to Boras clients. It's not that hard to understand. Right. New owner. New GM. That all equals a world series /waits for sky to fall some more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:45 PM) Nice Red X. Do you work for the organization? Your posts are suddenly make me wonder. QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:46 PM) Right. New owner. New GM. That all equals a world series /waits for sky to fall some more No it doesn't, but if you refuse to talk to the biggest agent in the game and give no trade clauses, you can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:47 PM) Nice Red X. Do you work for the organization? Your posts are suddenly make me wonder. No it doesn't, but if you refuse to talk to the biggest agent in the game and give no trade clauses, you can't win. It was a picture of chicken little until a second ago. Woe is me, woe is you, the sky is falling! The "corporate guy" jab was humorous, Joe Public Edited July 8, 2007 by kyyle23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHolyBovine Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:29 PM) Their peripherals are almost identical. 3-31-05 - 6-27-07 GS IP H ER HR BB K HBP ERA WHIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 K/BB PITCHER A 79 533.6 568 230 69 105 307 13 3.88 1.26 5.2 1.8 1.16 2.92 PITCHER B 79 536.6 551 231 59 117 273 17 3.87 1.24 4.6 2.0 0.99 2.33 That's cute, but your stats are selective, and you know it. MB's peripherals have always been good except for 1 year (2006). As 2007 has shown, in 2006 MB was one of those rare cases of "tired arm" in that he really had a tired arm, and not some kind of hidden injury (like Garcia). Take away 2006 for both MB and Garland, and then compare their career numbers. Edited July 8, 2007 by TheHolyBovine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:48 PM) It was a picture of chicken little until a second ago. Woe is me, woe is you, the sky is falling! So you think avoiding baseball's most important agent and not giving your best pitcher a really cheap deal over a NTC that only matters until 2010, and refusing to give any NTC's is a direction toward success? If you do, that's fine and your problem, but don't blame me for having enough of a brain to know what direction we are heading in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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