Gavin Floyd

[BearSox]

On the subject of all star games... B-Ham puts 5 on the SL game roster (Getz, Collaro, Lucy, Gonzalez, Egbert).

Has Getz even played in the last month or so?

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Look who is number 1.

 

We got a steal for the Garcia trade.

 

Loved this story in the article:

 

The low point of the Phils’ 95-loss 1996 season was when lefty Rafael Quirico was called up from Triple-A to make his major-league debut in Game 1 of a June 25 doubleheader in Cincinnati. When Quirico’s first pitch came in at about 82 mph, manager Jim Fregosi looked to pitching coach Johnny Podres and said, “Changeup?” Podres shook his head no and said, “Fastball.” Quirico never made it out of the first inning, as he retired two batters and gave up seven runs on four hits, five walks and a balk. Fregosi was steaming after the game that the Phillies forced him to pitch this kid. Quirico never pitched another game in the majors.

[Soxfest]

Hopefully Floyd can compete for a spot in rotation in 2008.

[southsider2k5]

Would Gavin Floyd versus Jon Garland comparisons be fair here? It took Jon a while to really get "it". One of the knocks against Jon was his mental make up and his propensity for the big inning early on. Stuff was never a question with Garland, just whether or not he had the stones to be a big time pitcher. Thoughts?

[Chisoxfn]

Has Getz even played in the last month or so?

He's been out with a knee injury.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Would Gavin Floyd versus Jon Garland comparisons be fair here? It took Jon a while to really get "it". One of the knocks against Jon was his mental make up and his propensity for the big inning early on. Stuff was never a question with Garland, just whether or not he had the stones to be a big time pitcher. Thoughts?

Not really. Even when Jon didn't "get it" he was still a league average pitcher at a very young age. Floyd may never be anything more than a league average pitcher when he finally "gets it"

[RockRaines]

Not really. Even when Jon didn't "get it" he was still a league average pitcher at a very young age. Floyd may never be anything more than a league average pitcher when he finally "gets it"

Where in the hell do you get that? Floyd is still very young and has better stuff than Jon. Jon didnt come into his own until the last few years. His first several years in the bigs were extremely pedestrian.

[hitlesswonder]

Would Gavin Floyd versus Jon Garland comparisons be fair here? It took Jon a while to really get "it". One of the knocks against Jon was his mental make up and his propensity for the big inning early on. Stuff was never a question with Garland, just whether or not he had the stones to be a big time pitcher. Thoughts?

By the time Garland was Floyd's age he had pitched approximately 800 innings in the bigs with around a 4.75 ERA. Garland got to the majors and stuck at a very young age, and contrary to lots of people's perception he was still a useful pitcher when he was young. He just wasn't Verlander.

[whitesoxfan101]

Would Gavin Floyd versus Jon Garland comparisons be fair here? It took Jon a while to really get "it". One of the knocks against Jon was his mental make up and his propensity for the big inning early on. Stuff was never a question with Garland, just whether or not he had the stones to be a big time pitcher. Thoughts?

Not really. Floyd is 24, and when Jon Garland turned 24, he had just finished his 4th MLB season, 2nd straight season at about 190 innings, 3rd straight over 100, and had a total of 570 innings of MLB experience. He was bad his first year, with 6.46 ERA in 70 innings in 2000 at age 20 (21 when the season ended), but after that....

 

2001: 6-7, 3.69 ERA, 117 IP

2002: 12-12, 4.58 ERA, 192.2 IP

2003: 12-13, 4.51 ERA, 191.1 IP

 

Even last year, Jon had a very comparable 4.51 ERA, but had the run support to go 18-7 (in 2005, he went 18-10 despite a full run lower ERA at 3.50). BTW, Gavin Floyd at the same age is 7-5 with a 6.96 ERA in 108 MLB innings.

 

So what does this prove?

 

1. Win/Loss records for pitchers are overrated

2. Garland wasn't nearly as bad as everybody thought early in his career

3. Comparing Floyd and Garland lacks much merit

Edited June 28, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[hitlesswonder]

Not really. Floyd is 24, and when Jon Garland turned 24, he had just finished his 4th MLB season, 2nd straight season at about 190 innings,

 

In my post I added in the numbers from 2004 (Garland was still 24 during that season). Probably fairer to exclude those, but as you point out Jon had still been a very useful pitcher by the time he was old as Floyd is now.

[Chisoxfn]

Would Gavin Floyd versus Jon Garland comparisons be fair here? It took Jon a while to really get "it". One of the knocks against Jon was his mental make up and his propensity for the big inning early on. Stuff was never a question with Garland, just whether or not he had the stones to be a big time pitcher. Thoughts?

I think this is a poor comparison for one reason. Garland was making those adjusments at the major league level and he had a varying degree of success while doing it. He also was doing it at a much younger age. I think the better comparison is Roy Halladay, who initially struggled in the majors, went all the way back down to A ball, and than worked his way back up and eventually won a cy young IIRC.

[elrockinMT]

Would Gavin Floyd versus Jon Garland comparisons be fair here? It took Jon a while to really get "it". One of the knocks against Jon was his mental make up and his propensity for the big inning early on. Stuff was never a question with Garland, just whether or not he had the stones to be a big time pitcher. Thoughts?

 

 

You must be patient with young talent that's for sure. Jon always had the ability he just needed to be able to put it togtehr. Floyd and othrs most likely will be fitting in that category as well. I can see Floyd in the rotation this year even if Contreras or Vazquez get traded, but I am thinking more along the lines that he will replace Jose.

[BearSox]

If I compare Jon Garland to anyone in our system, it is Lance Broadway. Their minor league numbers are very similar, IMO.

[GoodAsGould]

If I compare Jon Garland to anyone in our system, it is Lance Broadway. Their minor league numbers are very similar, IMO.

 

They arent really comparable at all either. Garland was a much better prospect and has better stuff too.

[BearSox]

They arent really comparable at all either. Garland was a much better prospect and has better stuff too.

Stat wise, they are similar. Garland was the better prospect with better stuff, but Broadway was more polished coming out of college.

[Kalapse]

If I compare Jon Garland to anyone in our system, it is Lance Broadway. Their minor league numbers are very similar, IMO.

Except for the fact that Jon Garland was 3 years younger than Broadway at each stop.

[CWSGuy406]

Except for the fact that Jon Garland was 3 years younger than Broadway at each stop.

 

And they're not similar pitchers at all. Garland has gotten to this point in his career with an above average fastball (this includes two-seamer, sinker, four-seamer) -- at this point he can pretty much spot that thing wherever he wants it -- whereas Broadway, I hear, has gotten by with that curveball that was (IIRC) rated one of the best in the 2005 draft.

 

Garland is a very unique pitcher in his own right. Can anybody find a good comp for Garland (career path wise, not stuff wise)? His top comps on baseball-reference (Byrd, Lidle, El Duque) don't really do him justice. The best I could find was this Tony Cloninger who is second on Garland's "Most Similar by Age" list. But even that's not a great match, as Cloninger was consistent at being below average as a starter (ERA+ ranging from 70-90) where Garland was consistent in being average (although it looks like he's settled into a nice niche of being above average).

[witesoxfan]

And they're not similar pitchers at all. Garland has gotten to this point in his career with an above average fastball (this includes two-seamer, sinker, four-seamer) -- at this point he can pretty much spot that thing wherever he wants it -- whereas Broadway, I hear, has gotten by with that curveball that was (IIRC) rated one of the best in the 2005 draft.

 

Garland is a very unique pitcher in his own right. Can anybody find a good comp for Garland (career path wise, not stuff wise)? His top comps on baseball-reference (Byrd, Lidle, El Duque) don't really do him justice. The best I could find was this Tony Cloninger who is second on Garland's "Most Similar by Age" list. But even that's not a great match, as Cloninger was consistent at being below average as a starter (ERA+ ranging from 70-90) where Garland was consistent in being average (although it looks like he's settled into a nice niche of being above average).

 

Based solely on numbers, Brad Radke might not be bad; he had much better control early in his career though. Doug Drabek's not bad either, but again, same s***; Drabek had good control early on too. Alex Fernandez, again, isn't bad, but he also struck people out at a pretty solid rate too.

 

Hopefully some combination of the 3; I would love 5 more very effective years out of Garland, and I think he'll provide even more than that.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Look who is number 1.

 

We got a steal for the Garcia trade.

 

It amazes me that people still complain about that trade.

[witesoxfan]

It amazes me that people still complain about that trade.

 

At the exact moment in time when no one knew what was going on, it was bad value. Garcia was a guy coming off a year where he was a league average pitcher, but also had an amazing September where it looked like he had developed a pitch that would allow him to return to his above average form from 2000-01 and 04-05. Then, the details slowly started to roll out; he sucked in spring training, then went on the DL, and then sucked in the regular season. Finally, it came out that Philadelphia didn't give him a physical, and everything made sense. KW probably could have gotten guys like Pelfrey or Milledge or several of the names brought up on Soxtalk, and perhaps everyone's favorite Aaron Rowand along with Gio and Gavin, but then a physical would have occurred and the trade would have been nixed.

 

If anyone complained about it right now, with all the information out there, they'd be idiots. There's no need at all to complain about the deal. KW wouldn't have gotten anything if a team were allowed to give Freddy a physical.

Edited June 29, 2007 by witesoxfan

[WHITESOXRANDY]

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 02:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It amazes me that people still complain about that trade.

 

 

I'm not seeing that it won't turn out to be a really good trade. It's already been good due to Garcia's injury.

 

However, Floyd and Gio have yet to pitch a game for the Sox so anything can still happen. They are not sure to do anything for the Sox yet.

[daa84]

looks like floyd really struggled with command today...6 BB in 5 IP isnt so good, he did K 6 and only gave up 3 hits and 2 runs....but youd like to see his walks decrease

[Chisoxfn]

looks like floyd really struggled with command today...6 BB in 5 IP isnt so good, he did K 6 and only gave up 3 hits and 2 runs....but youd like to see his walks decrease

He was due for a bad game, yet he still was able to battle through and give up just 2 runs. The old Gavin Floyd would have given up 6 or 7 runs and went 2-3 innings so I think we are seeing the type of strides he is making because he can battle even when he isn't at his best.

[southsider2k5]

Are there any close reports on how his make up is doing? I know he kind of got tagged with the "mental midget" thing with the Phillies, is anyone saying they have got him put back together again?