southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 "We are just not playing well this month," Twins GM Terry Ryan said. "We haven't hit consistently, yet. Our starting pitching hasn't been as good as we thought it would be, and it's drained our bullpen. I blame myself for the contract stuff with (Eddie) Guardado and (LaTroy) Hawkins. We're better than this." What's happened is that the White Sox beat up on the Twins and are back in the race, while the Royals won't go away. Jeremy Affeldt is back, the Royals continue to hit and while GM Allard Baird tries to see the long view and trade Carlos Beltran, it may not be possible, both because the trades aren't there and because the Kansas City fan base has been so revitalized that to trade Beltran in season would be a bad message to the fans and the clubhouse. Meanwhile, the Royals and White Sox are competing with the Expos for Robby Alomar, and a deal could well happen this week. Chicago has a lot of pitching in the organization, and one -- left-hander Neal Cotts, who came over from Oakland in the Billy Koch-Keith Foulke trade -- is so intriguing that when the Yankees and White Sox talked about a Jeff Weaver deal recently, Cotts name was involved. As for Beltran, "there really isn't anything going on right now," Baird said. The one team that was seriously interested in the last month had been Baltimore, but Jim Beattie and Mike Flanagan backed off with the emergence of Luis Matos. Ironically, part of the reason Beltran and Angel Berroa have so improved this season is the same reason Mora and Matos have taken off -- plate discipline. "That's the whole story with Matos and Mora," said Orioles vice president Mike Flanagan, whose stress on plate discipline has the Orioles raising their on-base percentage 35 points and raising their projected run total by more than 150 runs. Matos came into the season with a career OBP under .280; he went into Sunday at .382. Mora was .334 last year, .466 this season. Move over to Kansas City. "The work Jeff Pentland has done with all our hitters is a huge part of our success," Baird said. "He's gotten Beltran (.346 OBP in '02, .396 in '03) and Berroa (.301 OBP to .342) to buy into it, and they're taking off faster than we projected." If you remember, it was Pentland who got Sammy Sosa to buy into the notion, and after four seasons in which his OBP was under .325 (crashing at .300 in '96), he began a climb in which his improved command of the strike zone (.367 OBP in '99 to .437 in '01) the next five seasons correlated with his power surge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 interesting, but it comes from gammons, so who knows. Cotts for Alomar? Cotts for Weaver? do we trade a young prospect who COULD be good for some major league players who WERE good and COULD become good again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 If Weaver's agent is still Scott Boras, that throw a big bucket of water on the fire. I don't know about Weaver. He seems like a head case to me, and has difficulty getting along with his teammates based on several accounts. I loathe giving up on young lefthanded pitchers though, especially with Cotts performing so well at AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Personally if the deal includes Neal Cotts for either Alomar or Weaver I say NO WAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Please don't trade Cotts for an over the hill second baseman, especially without trying a few other solutions first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Wouldn't give up Cotts for such an older vet that's underachieving, though i'd like to acquire him for less...DJ makes me sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 This is other trade talk from Rosenthal at SN The Blue Jays are under budget, enabling them to assume some or all of the pro-rated portion of left fielder Shannon Stewart's $6.2 million salary in a deal for a starting pitcher. Stewart, a skilled leadoff hitter, would be a good fit for the A's, Royals, Dodgers and Diamondbacks, though Luis Gonzalez plays left field for Arizona and Stewart's arm is weak for right. ... A scout who saw Ugueth Urbina recently says the Rangers' closer looks "real tired." The Red Sox have shown interest in Urbina and other relievers, but they ultimately could benefit more from adding a starter, enabling them to move Byung-Hyun Kim to the bullpen. Righthanded reliever Brandon Lyon is 9-for-10 in save opportunities and righthander Chad Fox and lefthander Casey Fossum could bolster the 'pen when they return from injuries. ... The Royals won't rule out trading center fielder Carlos Beltran for the right package, but GM Allard Baird no longer is under orders to reduce the payroll from $41 million to $37 million. The team's immediate goal is to add a second baseman and bullpen help without raising payroll. Carlos Febles provides inadequate offense at second. An upgrade at the position would enable Desi Relaford to return to a super-utility role and keep players fresh at other spots. ... Twins GM Terry Ryan says the Royals' most impressive quality is their clutch hitting. The Royals' .298 batting average with runners in scoring position ranks fourth in the AL. The Blue Jays lead the AL in that department with a .322 batting average -- and they also rank first with a .331 batting average with runners in scoring position and two outs. ... Ryan on his team's disturbing slump: "One day it's pitching. The next day it's fielding. The next day it's hitting. We haven't played well since we got back from San Francisco (on June 5). We've been so inconsistent, it's of some concern to me." Ryan, however, emphasizes that he's not overly concerned, and gives no credence to the notion that the contract beefs of relievers Eddie Guardado and LaTroy Hawkins have been disruptive. ... Dodgers first baseman Fred McGriff gained added respect among scouts and executives when they learned that his trip to the DL was the first of his 18-year career. "They ought to put that on every stadium scoreboard," one scout says. "Other players can take a lesson from a true professional." ... Outfielder Jose Guillen leads the Reds with a 1.024 OPS, but his trade value isn't as high as one might believe. Guillen passed through waivers unclaimed near the end of spring training, and opposing GMs would be uncomfortable giving up a pitcher for a player they essentially could have had for nothing. Guillen, 27, also will be a free agent at the end of the season, and his reputation around the game isn't exactly sterling. "I don't trust him," one scout says. "If someone told me the kid was starting to mature mentally, I'd buy into it. Tools and talent have never been the issue." ... The Pirates won't fire manager Lloyd McClendon before he fulfills his duties as a member of the NL All-Star coaching staff, but McClendon's profanity-laced blowup following a 6-4 loss to the Expos last week could signal that the end is near. McClendon told reporters to "go out there and ask the players" the reasons for their defeat. "I don't have the reasons," he said. "Sometimes, the onus has got to be on them." Even if McClendon lasts the season, it's doubtful he will return in 2004. ... Marlins catcher Ivan Rodriguez might be mistaken if he hired agent Scott Boras with the intention of rejoining the Rangers. Boras maintains a strong relationship with Rangers owner Tom Hicks, but the team is more likely to spend on pitchers than hitters and has catcher Einar Diaz under contract for $3 million next season. Rodriguez could serve as a DH and play another position, but the Rangers wouldn't want to pay him anything close to his current $9.3 million salary. ... How about Shannon Stewart? Can he play CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I would MUCH rather trade Royce Ring than Neal Cotts. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 I would MUCH rather trade Royce Ring than Neal Cotts. JMO To me that is a no brainer. The value of good starters is always higher than good relief. BTW what is up with Ring lately? IIRC he has given up runs in his last 3 outings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 To me that is a no brainer. The value of good starters is always higher than good relief. BTW what is up with Ring lately? IIRC he has given up runs in his last 3 outings? Reality, combined with a long season is setting in. Many players go through a tired period or an adjustment when first getting used to the long season. Colleges play 60-70 games. Counting ST, Ring has been going as long as he ever has. It will be something he will have to fight his way through. A lot of people don't understand the grind the players go through with the long season. It is not easy, even when you have done it for years, let alone your first time through. I have a friend that played for a long time and he said that every year he had to make adjustments during the last month of the season because he didn't have the strength he had earlier. His wrists hurt, his shoulder would get sore and his knees would ache. This guy played for 12 years and was in great shape. As far as the reality part, there is no way he could keep up the success he had. He went through a stretch where he was practically untouchable. Even AA hitters will adjust eventually. Combine that with likely fatigue and his recent performance makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 interesting, but it comes from gammons, so who knows. Cotts for Alomar? Cotts for Weaver? do we trade a young prospect who COULD be good for some major league players who WERE good and COULD become good again? Let's hope they don't start parting with our top prospects in any trde they make. I don't think Alomar is worth a top prospect, at this point in his career anyway, nor would I give up a top minor league player for Weaver. I think the Yankees want a relief pitcher, or someone young & ready to step up as relief pitcher. I think the Mets want to pull the wool over someone's eyes and get a couple young prospects for a falling star. I am not saying that Roberto Alomar won't become rejuvanated on a pennat contender and especially playing with his brother, but it might be for only part of a season and then he's gone. Maybe if we just offer to pick up his contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Unless there is a bidding war, I would be surprised if the price for Alomar was that high. Look at what Millwood was dealt for, look what Colon was dealt for, look at what Juan gone would have been dealt for. There just isn't much of a market for older overpaid players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Unless there is a bidding war, I would be surprised if the price for Alomar was that high. Look at what Millwood was dealt for, look what Colon was dealt for, look at what Juan gone would have been dealt for. There just isn't much of a market for older overpaid players. Brings up a good point......maybe we could get Robbie Alomar for some of our mid level prospects. I'm not sure what type of player they'd be interested in though.... for some reason I think that they have a pitching heavy system.... but I could be wrong. In reference to Cotts..... Does everyone remeber when Scott Rufcorn was supposedly "untouchable"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 If Weaver's agent is still Scott Boras, that throw a big bucket of water on the fire. I don't know about Weaver. He seems like a head case to me, and has difficulty getting along with his teammates based on several accounts. I loathe giving up on young lefthanded pitchers though, especially with Cotts performing so well at AA. I think that Weaver is signed to a long term contract.... so i think that becomes moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 If the Sox give up an top prospects(like a Cotts) for an Alomar or Weaver it is a mistake. The market is a buyers market if the JuanGone trade that fell through was an indication. Texas was giving up JuanGone AND paying the rest of his contract and was only receiving 2 marginal prospects in return. Alomar is in a much similar situation as JuanGone. Aging(35), big contract(about 8 million), and sub-par season(sub-.700 OPS). I am sorry but that isn't worth a top prospect. Besides the one GM that might be dumber then KW is the Mets GM. Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the Sox get compensation via draft picks if they traded for Alomar and then he signed with another team in the offseason? If this is the case than I would love to see the Sox trade for him. The Sox would probably only have to give up a marginal prospect or 2 to get him and in return get Alomar for half a season AND a compensation pick. I would do that trade in 2 seconds if this is the case. With that said how much of an improvement is Alomar over Jimenez. I realize that Jimenez makes some boneheaded baserunning and defensive plays, but does that make up for superior offense that Jimenez brings? I think it does, but I don't think Alomar is a big upgrade. Weaver is puzzling. I was one of the guys that thought the Sox should go after him last year, however, his struggles this year are discouraging. I realize that some guys just can't pitch in NY, but he has been done right terrible this year. I also don't like the fact that he didn't sign with the Sox after they drafted him. I say stay away from Weaver. If the Sox want to add another pitcher, than I say go after Ponson. Stewart would be a nice offensive player to add to the Sox, however, his D is suspect especially if you want him to play CF. It would be interesting to see what the Jays would want for him. If the Sox could move Lee I think he would be an improvement in LF and give the Sox a true leadoff hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 If the Sox give up an top prospects(like a Cotts) for an Alomar or Weaver it is a mistake. The market is a buyers market if the JuanGone trade that fell through was an indication. Texas was giving up JuanGone AND paying the rest of his contract and was only receiving 2 marginal prospects in return. Alomar is in a much similar situation as JuanGone. Aging(35), big contract(about 8 million), and sub-par season(sub-.700 OPS). I am sorry but that isn't worth a top prospect. Besides the one GM that might be dumber then KW is the Mets GM. Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the Sox get compensation via draft picks if they traded for Alomar and then he signed with another team in the offseason? If this is the case than I would love to see the Sox trade for him. The Sox would probably only have to give up a marginal prospect or 2 to get him and in return get Alomar for half a season AND a compensation pick. I would do that trade in 2 seconds if this is the case. With that said how much of an improvement is Alomar over Jimenez. I realize that Jimenez makes some boneheaded baserunning and defensive plays, but does that make up for superior offense that Jimenez brings? I think it does, but I don't think Alomar is a big upgrade. Weaver is puzzling. I was one of the guys that thought the Sox should go after him last year, however, his struggles this year are discouraging. I realize that some guys just can't pitch in NY, but he has been done right terrible this year. I also don't like the fact that he didn't sign with the Sox after they drafted him. I say stay away from Weaver. If the Sox want to add another pitcher, than I say go after Ponson. Stewart would be a nice offensive player to add to the Sox, however, his D is suspect especially if you want him to play CF. It would be interesting to see what the Jays would want for him. If the Sox could move Lee I think he would be an improvement in LF and give the Sox a true leadoff hitter. #1 Steve Phillips (Mets GM) got fired. #2 Whoever has the rights to a player when the file for FA gets their compensation. That is why we didn't get the picks for Durham. #3 Weaver has a bad attitude, and I think that explains why the sudden drop off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 We would only get draft choices if we first made an offer to the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 We would only get draft choices if we first made an offer to the player. If we offered arbitration....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Steve Phillips is one of the worst GMs in any sport in recent memory. Of course Mike Smith is right behind him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 My question is, why would the Jays want to move Shannon Stewart. They are winning and in a pennant race. Why move a guy hitting over .300 with a .360 OBP? The Jays have been trying to or rumored as such, to move Stewart for about three years now. What is it about him that makes them want to get rid of him? Something about him scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 NOt sure if what DJ brings to the plate could be considered "superior offense". Heres Alomar and Jimenez' stats so far this year: G AB R 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB AVG SLG Alomar, Roberto (2B-NYM) 72 259 33 17 1 2 22 6 29 .263 .359 Jimenez, D'Angelo (2B, 3B-CWS) 73 271 35 11 5 7 26 4 32 .255 .410 Except for the adavantage of 5 HRs, there is not much difference, and I KNOW that Alomar plays a better second base, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 #1 Steve Phillips (Mets GM) got fired. When did that happen? I musta missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Meanwhile, the Royals and White Sox are competing with the Expos for Robby Alomar, and a deal could well happen this week. Chicago has a lot of pitching in the organization, and one -- left-hander Neal Cotts, who came over from Oakland in the Billy Koch-Keith Foulke trade -- is so intriguing that when the Yankees and White Sox talked about a Jeff Weaver deal recently, Cotts name was involved Why would the Expos want Alomar??? Vidro is there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Didn't Jeff Weaver say, at one point, that he will NEVER play for the White Sox? If memory serves correct, he did...... and if so, is this the type of guy that we want to trade a decent sounding prospect for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 #1 Steve Phillips (Mets GM) got fired. When did that happen? I musta missed it. About 3 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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