Barry Lamar Bonds

[T R U]

To anyone that is rational there is zero question.

 

Whatever you say chief

 

 

[Linnwood]

Whatever you say chief

 

 

Another player admitted on a respected national sports news show that he did the "BALCO program" with Barry Bonds and former BALCO chemist Patrick Arnold says that he heard Victor Conte frequently boast about Bonds and Sheffield being on "the program," yet you still have doubts?

 

What do you need? Video tape of Bonds injecting himself while holding a sign that says "I, BARRY BONDS, AM DOING STEROIDS" ?

 

I wonder, do you think OJ is innocent too?

[knightni]

Who cares if he did steroids if they weren't illegal in major league baseball?

 

It wasn't against the rules when he used them.

[briguy27]

Who cares if he did steroids if they weren't illegal in major league baseball?

 

It wasn't against the rules when he used them.

[witesoxfan]

Rose is not a top ten hitter. Gwynn is not a top ten hitter. That's crazy.

 

It really depends on the qualifications you are looking at for a hitter. Gwynn has the 3rd highest batting average of all time for players born after 1900. The two hitters in front of him - Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig - are unquestionably two of the greatest hitters of all time. He's definitely the best singles hitter of all time, which means he probably had the best bat control of all time. You're talking about a guy whose career high for strikeouts in a season was 40. I think Josh Fields struck out 40 times in a month, and if he didn't, he was pretty close to it. And that's a career high.

 

To me, there's no question Gwynn's a top 10 hitter.

 

Rose isn't; he was able to stick around for forever and collect some 4000 hits along the way. He was barely a career .300 hitter.

 

Who cares if he did steroids if they weren't illegal in major league baseball?

 

It wasn't against the rules when he used them.

 

But it was against the law.

[T R U]

Another player admitted on a respected national sports news show that he did the "BALCO program" with Barry Bonds and former BALCO chemist Patrick Arnold says that he heard Victor Conte frequently boast about Bonds and Sheffield being on "the program," yet you still have doubts?

 

What do you need? Video tape of Bonds injecting himself while holding a sign that says "I, BARRY BONDS, AM DOING STEROIDS" ?

 

I wonder, do you think OJ is innocent too?

 

I guess the term proven guilty flies right over your head

[briguy27]

It really depends on the qualifications you are looking at for a hitter. Gwynn has the 3rd highest batting average of all time for players born after 1900. The two hitters in front of him - Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig - are unquestionably two of the greatest hitters of all time. He's definitely the best singles hitter of all time, which means he probably had the best bat control of all time. You're talking about a guy whose career high for strikeouts in a season was 40. I think Josh Fields struck out 40 times in a month, and if he didn't, he was pretty close to it. And that's a career high.

To me, there's no question Gwynn's a top 10 hitter.

 

Rose isn't; he was able to stick around for forever and collect some 4000 hits along the way. He was barely a career .300 hitter.

But it was against the law.

[T R U]

But it was against the law.

 

I am pretty sure that every single poster in this thread has done something that was against the law in one way or another.. whether that be underage drinking, smoking weed, or simply while driving.

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

I am pretty sure that every single poster in this thread has done something that was against the law in one way or another.. whether that be underage drinking, smoking weed, or simply while driving.

 

No way, everyone is a perfect angel

 

(cracks open beer)

 

 

Seriously though, this is the purchasing, possession, and use of an illegal and banned substance in America. Have we as people done certain crimes that are comparable? Absolutely. Does it make it right?

 

and really, I just like playing devil's advocate on this subject because it's so fun to do.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I hit 10 HR in Wii Sports HR derby... 5437 feet.

 

I rock!

[briguy27]

I hit 10 HR in Wii Sports HR derby... 5437 feet.

 

I rock!

In MVP Baseall 2003 I think it was, I used to get the Space Stadium, and every ball was hit like 750 feet.

[Linnwood]

I guess the term proven guilty flies right over your head

 

 

"Innocent until Proven Guilty" has to do with the court of law, not the court of public opinion.

 

Like I asked before, do you think OJ is innocent too? He wasn't proven guilty in a court of criminal law.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Linnwood

[Chisoxfn]

I cheered for Bonds tonight in San Diego when he hit 755. I was so surprised, bought tickets last night on ticketmaster and was 8 rows up from first base on the field. f***ing sick when he hit the HR.

 

With a 2-1 count in the 2nd inning, I turned to my dad and said this is his pitch....755 happens right now and than bam. He was really seeing the ball well and I was dissapointed Hensley pitched around him the next 2 times. I'm not sure what the overall reaction was, but from my perspective where I was sitting (there were a bunch of Giant fans around me) I heard cheering (probably 80% cheers).

 

They booed like hell when he took left field to start the game...but once the hr was hit he got a big time standing ovationg from the crowd (my take is, no matter how big of a prick he may be...he's still a f***ing legendary baseball player who just tied one of the greatest statistical feats in any sport, let alone just baseball).

[Jordan4life_2007]

Michael Jordan. Walter Payton. Wayne Gretzky. Barry Bonds. That is all.

[briguy27]

I cheered for Bonds tonight in San Diego when he hit 755. I was so surprised, bought tickets last night on ticketmaster and was 8 rows up from first base on the field. f***ing sick when he hit the HR.

 

With a 2-1 count in the 2nd inning, I turned to my dad and said this is his pitch....755 happens right now and than bam. He was really seeing the ball well and I was dissapointed Hensley pitched around him the next 2 times. I'm not sure what the overall reaction was, but from my perspective where I was sitting (there were a bunch of Giant fans around me) I heard cheering (probably 80% cheers).

 

They booed like hell when he took left field to start the game...but once the hr was hit he got a big time standing ovationg from the crowd (my take is, no matter how big of a prick he may be...he's still a f***ing legendary baseball player who just tied one of the greatest statistical feats in any sport, let alone just baseball).

People all are talk, "I hate Bonds" and then he walks off the field from being pinch-ran for and the crowd behind the dugout gives him a standing ovation, and Bonds tips his helmet. I hate those kind of people.

 

[jackie hayes]

Now you've taken it too far. Steroids and HGH, whether or not he took them, don't improve hitting ability and hand-eye coordination. He still had to amazing hand-eye and hitting ability to hit those homers, steroids or not. Here's my top 10.

 

1. Bonds

2. Ruth

3. Cobb

4. Gwynn

5. Rose

6. H Wagner

7. DiMaggio

8. A-Rod

9. Hammerin' Hank

10. Ichiro

10. Mantle

That's awful. Any 'best hitters' list without Williams deserves to be tossed without a second look. Gehrig too.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm pretty sure steroids WERE against the rules. They just didn't have a testing program.

 

Also, I think HGH helps your vision. So, it would indeed help hand-eye coordination.

[ChWRoCk2]

he is a great player and all, but I have very little respect for him, and I wouldn't even consider him in the top 5 hitters of all time, let alone top 10.

In case you haven't noticed, though it isn't confirmed you should probably realize that about half of the league is using them. Obviously this is just pure speculation but steroids are no longer criticized as they were a decade or so ago, and are actually now widely accepted. Hence why more and more players are using them and they are becoming more widely available. Theres really nothing Selig and crew can do about this mess. Of course the idea of the asterisk comes around but like LCR noted earlier other players have I gues sort of cheated pitchers with spitballs and etc, if your gonna throw an asterisk in front of Barry why not them, its just not fair to single one player out.

 

Now no hes definitely not in the top 5 hitters of all time but top 10 yes I would throw him in there.

 

Now you've taken it too far. Steroids and HGH, whether or not he took them, don't improve hitting ability and hand-eye coordination. He still had to amazing hand-eye and hitting ability to hit those homers, steroids or not. Here's my top 10.

 

1. Bonds

2. Ruth

3. Cobb

4. Gwynn

5. Rose

6. H Wagner

7. DiMaggio

8. A-Rod

9. Hammerin' Hank

10. Ichiro

10. Mantle

Dont improve hitting ability? Is hitting for power an ability? I would say so, they definitely do increase your ability to hit for power thats kind of ridiculous to say that they dont improve your hitting. This is arguable though.

 

If you ask me thats an AWFUL top 10, Bonds first? As much as I like him all Bonds does is hit for power, granted he has hit over 300 some years, he has a career avg under 300. Babe Ruth should easily top that list, I believe his career average was a 342, not to mention his HR total could be higher if he hadnt of pitched at the beginning of his career.

 

Really surprised you left two of the best hitters in the game off your list, Stan Musial who had 6 batting titles and Ted Williams well he speaks for himself.

 

Just for the hell of it heres my well top 10:

 

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Pete Rose

4. Ty Cobb

5. Tony Gwynn

6. Hank Aaron

7. Lou Gherig

8. Stan Musial

9. Roger Hornsby

10. Barry Bonds

 

Some notables deserving of a spot, Willie Mays, Wade Boggs, Honus Wagner, Rod Carew, Dimaggio.

Edited August 5, 2007 by ChWRoCk2

[whitesoxfan99]

Just for the hell of it heres my well top 10:

 

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams

3. Pete Rose

4. Ty Cobb

5. Tony Gwynn

6. Hank Aaron

7. Lou Gherig

8. Stan Musial

9. Roger Hornsby

10. Barry Bonds

 

Some notables deserving of a spot, Willie Mays, Wade Boggs, Honus Wagner, Rod Carew.

 

Pete Rose is not even close to the 3rd best hitter of all time.

[ChWRoCk2]

Pete Rose is not even close to the 3rd best hitter of all time.

Why is that? Seriously whats your reasoning, just about any one of those players I listed I could put in the top 3 arguably, the fact that he holds the record for most hits of all time made me put him there.

Edited August 5, 2007 by ChWRoCk2

[whitesoxfan99]

Why is that? Seriously whats your reasoning, just about any one of those players I listed I could put in the top 3 arguably, the fact that he holds the record for most hits of all time made me put him there.

 

He has the most hits because he was a very good hitter for a long time but that still doesn't mean he belongs in the top 3. Loo at his numbers next to guys like Gehrig, Musial, Hornsby, Aaron and they pale in comparison. He hit for a good average and did a good job getting on base. But he didn't hit for power, and his average and OBP is actually significantly lower than guys like Gehrig and Musial.

[jackie hayes]

He has the most hits because he was a very good hitter for a long time but that still doesn't mean he belongs in the top 3. Loo at his numbers next to guys like Gehrig, Musial, Hornsby, Aaron and they pale in comparison. He hit for a good average and did a good job getting on base. But he didn't hit for power, and his average and OBP is actually significantly lower than guys like Gehrig and Musial.

Exactly. Aaron's a good comp. Almost exactly the same in career avg and obp, but a huge difference in slugging pct, homers. Rose's only advantage is 500 more hits, many of which came during a mediocre twilight when he was just trying to get the record. I don't think you reasonably put Rose above Aaron. Mantle and Bonds should be higher than both.

 

And Mantle's got to be in the top ten, at least.

Edited August 5, 2007 by jackie hayes

[BearSox]

Now you've taken it too far. Steroids and HGH, whether or not he took them, don't improve hitting ability and hand-eye coordination. He still had to amazing hand-eye and hitting ability to hit those homers, steroids or not. Here's my top 10.

1. Bonds

2. Ruth

3. Cobb

4. Gwynn

5. Rose

6. H Wagner

7. DiMaggio

8. A-Rod

9. Hammerin' Hank

10. Ichiro

10. Mantle

 

 

That is complete bulls***. Fine, you love Barry Bonds, but he is no where near the level of Ruth.

 

Ruth

 

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Everyone else

 

 

Also, no Ted Williams? You must be kidding yourself.

[witesoxfan]

That is complete bulls***. Fine, you love Barry Bonds, but he is no where near the level of Ruth.

 

Ruth

 

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Everyone else

Also, no Ted Williams? You must be kidding yourself.

 

You definitely missed the entire argument throughout the previous 10-12 pages of fun or whatever it is; I have 75 posts per page, so it's just like 2 for me.

 

Really, comparing Ruth to Bonds is apples to oranges because of how much different the game is now than it was back then. The foul poles are further away, but CF is closer; there are better athletes in today's game, but the thought of hitting a ball out of the park on a consistent basis had not been considered before Ruth. You have sliders and different curveballs and crazy fastballs now, but they had spit balls and sandpaper.

 

Ruth and Bonds may be 1-2, but you can't say one is clearly superior to the other in any argument, or you'll argue the point until the end of time.

[BearSox]

You definitely missed the entire argument throughout the previous 10-12 pages of fun or whatever it is; I have 75 posts per page, so it's just like 2 for me.

 

Really, comparing Ruth to Bonds is apples to oranges because of how much different the game is now than it was back then. The foul poles are further away, but CF is closer; there are better athletes in today's game, but the thought of hitting a ball out of the park on a consistent basis had not been considered before Ruth. You have sliders and different curveballs and crazy fastballs now, but they had spit balls and sandpaper.

 

Ruth and Bonds may be 1-2, but you can't say one is clearly superior to the other in any argument, or you'll argue the point until the end of time.

 

 

I guess I will cause Ruth is the greatest there is and likely ever be, in my book. Then again, I'm old fashion.