Barry Lamar Bonds

[T R U]

Nobody was ever on quite the regiment that Bonds was on. Besides that, nobody was as naturally good as he was and then bulked.

 

Combine his natural skill with huge, not-God-given muscles, and you've got a beast. All the steroids in the world won't turn Neifi Perez into Harmon Killebrew -- but if Bonds takes enough, he can be Babe Ruth.

 

PS: Bonds has crumbled. His body's taken a ton of damage over the last few years. I mean, Giambi's crumbling for a variety of reasons. He's a party boy, and he's a little careless, and he's not as dedicated as Bonds. Per Book of Shadows.

 

I would hardly say that Bonds has crumbled

[Gregory Pratt]

His body is and has been a mess.

[T R U]

His body is and has been a mess.

 

I think that has a little more to do with his age and duration of his MLB career, yes, he has had some.. but he is still out there playing pretty damn healthy this season

[Gregory Pratt]

I have no further comment.

[jackie hayes]

Im willing to bet you know absolutely nothing about steroids except for "they're bad".. Steroids will not help you hit the ball, that is still a skill that you have to be able to do on your own, if anything, the bulk that you put on from steroids would hinder that ability. Steroids make your muscles grow, your tendons and ligaments do not.

 

If they help so much, why is Bonds pretty much the only player who has done anything while "on them". Why isn't Neifi Perez badass? Why did Jason Giambi crumble, yet Bonds has shown no sign of slowing down? What about those 100 or so unnamed players who failed tests in 2003 when they first tested?

That's terrible logic. Neifi Perez wasn't even taking steroids. But let's say he was -- noone's saying that Bonds was a crappy player before taking steroids. Perez is a crappy player. 120% (or whatever) of crap is still crap.

 

Not all roiders use the same regimen, nor do they all react in exactly the same way or at the same rate, nor did they all start using at exactly the same time.

 

Bonds isn't the only player who did anything while on them. Raffy had a nice career, McGwire and Sosa had a year you might have heard something about, and Giambi did well enough to get one of those Yankee throw-money-at-it contracts.

 

And you didn't answer Tex's question -- If they do no good or (as you say) hurt performance, why are steroids so widely used in baseball?

[T R U]

That's terrible logic. Neifi Perez wasn't even taking steroids. But let's say he was -- noone's saying that Bonds was a crappy player before taking steroids. Perez is a crappy player. 120% (or whatever) of crap is still crap.

 

Not all roiders use the same regimen, nor do they all react in exactly the same way or at the same rate, nor did they all start using at exactly the same time.

 

Bonds isn't the only player who did anything while on them. Raffy had a nice career, McGwire and Sosa had a year you might have heard something about, and Giambi did well enough to get one of those Yankee throw-money-at-it contracts.

 

And you didn't answer Tex's question -- If they do no good or (as you say) hurt performance, why are steroids so widely used in baseball?

 

Do you take steroids? Do you know the regimen that people who are currently on steroids take? I doubt it.

 

And I didn't say steroids do no good, I just said that they would be more likely to hinder a performer. You have to have the skills to hit the ball regardless. Steroids will not do that, all you people who have never taken steroids or only know the bad stuff you hear from TV have no clue what you are talking about.

 

The reason they are so widely used is because people think they can take steroids and become a badass, which is not the case.

[Steff]

why are steroids so widely used in baseball?

 

 

I would guess that a lot of it has to do with the potential to improve so drastically.

[Steff]

The reason they are so widely used is because people think they can take steroids and become a badass, which is not the case.

 

^

 

[T R U]

I would guess that a lot of it has to do with the potential to improve so drastically.

 

Bingo.

 

Which is completely false.

[NorthSideSox72]

Bingo.

 

Which is completely false.

Evidence says otherwise. Why on earth would they take it if it only hindered their performance? Are you saying maybe they like the side effects or something? Maybe they prefer to see their parts shrivel?

 

[Steff]

Evidence says otherwise. Why on earth would they take it if it only hindered their performance? Are you saying maybe they like the side effects or something? Maybe they prefer to see their parts shrivel?

 

The evidence I have seen regarding the "negative positive" is for guys who get so bulky it actually impedes their physical ability (slows the swing or run). It makes a lot of sense. Big muscles are orgasmic to many guys on steriods, which is why I think they don't care about the size of their pee pee or balls when they are on them.

[NorthSideSox72]

The evidence I have seen regarding the "negative positive" is for guys who get so bulky it actually impedes their physical ability (slows the swing or run). It makes a lot of sense. Big muscles are orgasmic to many guys on steriods, which is why I think they don't care about the size of their pee pee or balls when they are on them.

There aren't too many baseball players built like body-builders though. A few exceptions of course, super-bulky dudes like McGwire was. Probably in part for that very reason, that too much bulk would be self-defeating (and I suppose because that might make it painfully obvious what they were doing).

 

[kapkomet]

Do you take steroids? Do you know the regimen that people who are currently on steroids take? I doubt it.

 

And I didn't say steroids do no good, I just said that they would be more likely to hinder a performer. You have to have the skills to hit the ball regardless. Steroids will not do that, all you people who have never taken steroids or only know the bad stuff you hear from TV have no clue what you are talking about.

 

The reason they are so widely used is because people think they can take steroids and become a badass, which is not the case.

With this comment, you tell me you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

You're assuming a lot, I think.

 

Steroids are used (as far as the growth hormone class - there are many different classes of steroids) to allow muscle to be ripped apart and rebuild more quickly then otherwise would be tolerated by the body. In other words, work out tons, add muscle mass quicker because your body will repair itself a little more quicker. Rinse, and repeat. You still have to work your ass off, but it does some nasty things to your body. It certainly won't "hinder your performance."

[Steff]

There aren't too many baseball players built like body-builders though. A few exceptions of course, super-bulky dudes like McGwire was. Probably in part for that very reason, that too much bulk would be self-defeating (and I suppose because that might make it painfully obvious what they were doing).

 

 

I don't know if it takes being built like a body builder to impede performance. Of the few guys I know of who have taken them, and some who still are, they didn't grow gross sized muscles and saw a decline. Most I know are quite a bit smaller than Canseco actually.

 

And I am in no way, shape, or form trying to justify anything. This is just what I have seen, and the reasons why I have been told people do them.

[knightni]

Usually it's strong legs and limberness which can give you more power.

 

 

Overall muscularity may give brute power but not consistancy.

 

 

You'll strikeout a lot more than you'll succeed.

 

 

[jackie hayes]

Do you take steroids? Do you know the regimen that people who are currently on steroids take? I doubt it.

 

And I didn't say steroids do no good, I just said that they would be more likely to hinder a performer. You have to have the skills to hit the ball regardless. Steroids will not do that, all you people who have never taken steroids or only know the bad stuff you hear from TV have no clue what you are talking about.

 

The reason they are so widely used is because people think they can take steroids and become a badass, which is not the case.

They "hinder a performer"? I thought you said the only side effect of steroids is "excellence"?

 

The idea that so many baseball players are complete idiots, who take something that hurts their play for a benefit that won't arrive, is more than a little far-fetched. By your own logic, since they're taking steroids, they should know what they do, right? I don't really see Alex Sanchez and Deivi Mendez thinking to themselves, Boy, what a badass I'll be.

 

But, wow, I sure wish I could have seen Barry without the roids. He could have hit 80, 90 homers, then.

[T R U]

With this comment, you tell me you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

You're assuming a lot, I think.

 

Steroids are used (as far as the growth hormone class - there are many different classes of steroids) to allow muscle to be ripped apart and rebuild more quickly then otherwise would be tolerated by the body. In other words, work out tons, add muscle mass quicker because your body will repair itself a little more quicker. Rinse, and repeat. You still have to work your ass off, but it does some nasty things to your body. It certainly won't "hinder your performance."

 

 

For baseball, being big and bulky would slow down your swing and with the lack of tendon and ligament support would also cause further chances at injury etc. I don't know what else to tell you if you are trying to tell me that being bulky (losing range of motion in the process) has no effect in any of this.

 

I know more about steroids and steroid use than most likely all of you, im not assuming anything. Everything you just said above really had nothing to do with baseball, in which I was talking about. You just said basically what steroids do.

[T R U]

They "hinder a performer"? I thought you said the only side effect of steroids is "excellence"?

 

Haha, great point there... I remember that when I said that it was purely meant for what it can do to you in baseball and not the way you appear to everyone else. Nice try though.

 

Much like Kap, youre just another clueless person who is talking about something other than what I was.

[kapkomet]

Come on... let's all bow down to all-knowing SHADOWS!

 

 

 

You're all over the place. First, it makes you better, then it doesn't. Then it helps you bulk up, then it doesn't. Then, it has this effect, then it doesn't.

 

I'm not saying that you don't know what you're talking about in some aspects, but when you say

 

they would be more likely to hinder a performer

 

that is simply false FOR MOST ATHLETES. I also think that you're just trying to show you know more then everyone else on this subject, which is fine, I guess...

Edited August 6, 2007 by kapkomet

[SoxFan1]

Steroids do not make you hit the ball with more regularity. Steroids do not make you have better hand eye coordination. If Bonds did use steroids, it should be taken with a grain of salt. So did Guillermo Mota and Robert Valido...

[vandy125]

For baseball, being big and bulky would slow down your swing and with the lack of tendon and ligament support would also cause further chances at injury etc. I don't know what else to tell you if you are trying to tell me that being bulky (losing range of motion in the process) has no effect in any of this.

 

I know more about steroids and steroid use than most likely all of you, im not assuming anything. Everything you just said above really had nothing to do with baseball, in which I was talking about. You just said basically what steroids do.

I really don't think that he is talking about necessarily getting bigger and bulkier (hence slowing down one's swing). What he is talking about is the rebuilding of muscle tissue at a faster pace. This faster pace does not mean that you will get too bulky. It means that you can reach your goal level of muscle mass in a much faster period of time. It also means that it is much easier to maintain that muscle mass as you are going through your daily routine. You will not get tired out as quickly as normal because you will have a much quicker recovery time (the muscle tissue gets built back up quicker).

 

For instance say someone wants to add 10 pounds of muscle to reach a goal that will not prohibit them from swinging.

Player A without steroids, but working hard take 1 year to do it.

Player B with steriods, and working hard takes 3 months.

 

Also, Player A after playing in 60 straight games is more worn down than Player B because his muscle tissue is not being rebuilt as quickly.

 

TIFWIW. That is what I have read up on steriods as doing, and it is why pitchers get caught with it a lot. They need their muscles rebuilt quicker so that they can go out and throw again without much loss of performance.

 

 

[kapkomet]

Steroids do not make you hit the ball with more regularity. Steroids do not make you have better hand eye coordination. If Bonds did use steroids, it should be taken with a grain of salt. So did Guillermo Mota and Robert Valido...

For the record, I'm not even arguing that.

 

I can say that it will make you go for longer periods of time and you will be less prone to injury because of the way that they make your body "repair" itself.

 

When you fall off, though, you really fall off. Let's see what Barry looks like in 10 years after he retires. :shudder:

 

 

 

[kapkomet]

I really don't think that he is talking about necessarily getting bigger and bulkier (hence slowing down one's swing). What he is talking about is the rebuilding of muscle tissue at a faster pace. This faster pace does not mean that you will get too bulky. It means that you can reach your goal level of muscle mass in a much faster period of time. It also means that it is much easier to maintain that muscle mass as you are going through your daily routine. You will not get tired out as quickly as normal because you will have a much quicker recovery time (the muscle tissue gets built back up quicker).

 

For instance say someone wants to add 10 pounds of muscle to reach a goal that will not prohibit them from swinging.

Player A without steroids, but working hard take 1 year to do it.

Player B with steriods, and working hard takes 3 months.

 

Also, Player A after playing in 60 straight games is more worn down than Player B because his muscle tissue is not being rebuilt as quickly.

 

TIFWIW. That is what I have read up on steriods as doing, and it is why pitchers get caught with it a lot. They need their muscles rebuilt quicker so that they can go out and throw again without much loss of performance.

That was/is (one of) my main point(s).

 

[vandy125]

That was/is (one of) my main point(s).

I don't think he was getting it. So, I tried to give it a rehash. It is the main reason why it is called a performance enhancer and is a very good point.

[vandy125]

Steroids do not make you hit the ball with more regularity. Steroids do not make you have better hand eye coordination. If Bonds did use steroids, it should be taken with a grain of salt. So did Guillermo Mota and Robert Valido...

I think that we can all agree that Bonds always has had incredible hand-eye coordination. However, steriods would have allowed him to possibly reach a level of strength that he would not have been able to get to and to maintain that level for a longer peroid of time than he would have had he not been on them (supposedly).

 

I would say that most people would have already pencilled him in for the HOF before the steroids because of how good he already was.