Bomb Crisis in England and Scotland

[Gregory Pratt]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/2...n-bomb-defused/

 

There's plenty more to be found. Google News, the newspapers, TV -- all of it has been running it.

 

Seems the worst has been foiled, but it's disturbing, and it troubles me. I hate to watch any part of the world burn, any people die.

 

This is what I wrote on my blog:

 

The Words Are Sticking in my Throat

 

It isn’t often that I find myself struggling to opine but this is one of those times. As Britain struggles to deal with suicide attacks, incompetent terrorists and the dismantling of terror cells, I’d simply like to state that I wish that country and those people well and hope they find safety and capture the terrorists sooner rather than later and before much damage is done.

 

Watching these events occur, I think it such a shame that there are people on this Earth who don’t exercise peace more often. It’s disturbing, too, knowing that it can happen anywhere, to anyone, for any reason, all because someone doesn’t look forward to tomorrow anymore. I, for one, look forward to tomorrow, and I think it such a shame that some don’t, as evidenced by the bomb-attempts in London, the Benoit massacre, the destruction of the environment for money, the disregard for the working poor, unfair wages and all the other events we read about in the newspaper every morning.

 

Each and every one of us should strive to make life worth living, for ourselves and each other, and I for one will continue to do just that and hope that more people join me.

 

It's really all I can think of right now. I'm all for imprisonment. I can understand war. Right now, though, I'm just thinking about people. The people who are dying, the people who are killing, and it's a huge bummer.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The world is a really nasty place and the islamo-fascist movement is the driving force behind most of it. This is just further proof that the "religion of peace" is a misnomer for what is really a violent and oppressive religion.

[Kyyle23]

The world is a really nasty place and the islamo-fascist movement is the driving force behind most of it. This is just further proof that the "religion of peace" is a misnomer for what is really a violent and oppressive religion.

 

Its all in the interpretation of the religion.

[Rex Kickass]

I guess, the thing to be heartened about here is that there were three attempts at terrorist incidents, and all were rather crude and all were basically foiled.

[southsider2k5]

There is the crazy thing... The British finally get rid of Blair, and it is a perfect moment for Islam to step in and work to make the right wing people look bad, but trying to work with the new PM. Instead they instantly put the pressure on Brown by all of these potential attacks. What sense does that make? It puts the pressure on Brown to keep after the Islamists.

[kapkomet]

There is the crazy thing... The British finally get rid of Blair, and it is a perfect moment for Islam to step in and work to make the right wing people look bad, but trying to work with the new PM. Instead they instantly put the pressure on Brown by all of these potential attacks. What sense does that make? It puts the pressure on Brown to keep after the Islamists.

These people don't give a s*** who is in power, be it Blair or Brown in Britian, or Bush or either Clinton in the US, and that is what people in this country don't get.

 

*sniff, sniff* Let's *sniff, sniff* nego - *sniff, sniff* negotiate with these *sniff, sniff* poor, misunderstood people *sniff, sniff*.

 

Please. It's our way of life, not "AMERICA" or "BRITIAN" or anything else.

[southsideirish71]

These people don't give a s*** who is in power, be it Blair or Brown in Britian, or Bush or either Clinton in the US, and that is what people in this country don't get.

 

*sniff, sniff* Let's *sniff, sniff* nego - *sniff, sniff* negotiate with these *sniff, sniff* poor, misunderstood people *sniff, sniff*.

 

Please. It's our way of life, not "AMERICA" or "BRITIAN" or anything else.

 

The english can negotiate with the terrorist. All they need to do, is to worship Allah as the only one true God, create a government based on Sharia law, put all women in ninja outfits, and kill all the infidels. Have a public execution of Rushdie. They do this, and the terrorists will be happy with England being a western country.

Edited July 1, 2007 by southsideirish71

[mr_genius]

All they need to do, is to worship Allah as the only one true God, create a government based on Sharia law, put all women in ninja outfits, and kill all the infidels. Have a public execution of Rushdie. They do this, and the terrorists will be happy with England being a western country.

 

 

Sounds reasonable. When will people realize that for true diversity we must all meet these peoples perfectly legitimate demands. If you disagree with me, you are racist.

 

your politically correct pal,

mr_genius

[EvilMonkey]

Since it appears that at least two of the people involved were doctors, and not the poverty-stricken victims that were forced into jihad, can we now cross poverty off as the root cause of terrorism? It is time to seriously consider restricting immigration of all Muslims to our country.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Since it appears that at least two of the people involved were doctors, and not the poverty-stricken victims that were forced into jihad, can we now cross poverty off as the root cause of terrorism? It is time to seriously consider restricting immigration of all Muslims to our country.

 

 

That should have been done a long time ago. Lax immigration policies are turning the whole of Western Europe into a terrorist breeding ground. This will not get better anytime soon.

[southsider2k5]

Since it appears that at least two of the people involved were doctors, and not the poverty-stricken victims that were forced into jihad, can we now cross poverty off as the root cause of terrorism? It is time to seriously consider restricting immigration of all Muslims to our country.

 

Besides the timing of the bombing, this was the other really interesting thing to emerge out of this situation. To me there is one big Al Qaeda trademark missing, because there was no public message to PM Brown offering him the chance to stop killing Muslims or face a Jihad. To me the attack also seems a little low brow for an Al Qaeda attack, but maybe with the "big" plots seemingly not happening now for whatever reason, this is the new face of terrorism. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the investigations.

[kapkomet]

I read somewhere that the Dept of Homeland Security was hearing chatter of "something big" happening soon in the US. Who knows whether or not it's true?

[NorthSideSox72]

These people don't give a s*** who is in power, be it Blair or Brown in Britian, or Bush or either Clinton in the US, and that is what people in this country don't get.

 

*sniff, sniff* Let's *sniff, sniff* nego - *sniff, sniff* negotiate with these *sniff, sniff* poor, misunderstood people *sniff, sniff*.

 

Please. It's our way of life, not "AMERICA" or "BRITIAN" or anything else.

Oh for f***s sake. There are, and have been, many, many alternative paths this government could have taken here that would be far better solutions than the two alternatives that we are being pedaled - attacking countries for no good reason, or retreat and appease. Are you telling me you have fallen for this extremist crap Kap? This B.S. the administration And the media are pushing about either supporting their failed Iraq effort or you are some sort of coward? Or else you want all out war and are a warmonger?

 

Its not about Islam, and its not about poverty. Its about the west having meddled in the affairs of that region stupidly and for far too long, coupled with the fact that we NEED the oil that is in that region. And from the local angle, mix in a nice dose of corrupt governments and religious control of law, and there you have it. Add it up, and you create a cauldron of hatred towards the west AND they have some big chips that we don't.

 

You want a real solution? If you aren't willing to shrink scope in Iraq (i.e. take the Kurd route) and clean up the corruption and waste in the U.S. coalition, then get the hell out of there entirely. Spend HALF the money we throw at Iraq on alternative energy, and in a few years, we suddenly won't need them anymore. We can be energy independent, or at least a lot closer to it. THEN, we can go back in (if we so desire) with the advantage on our side, and actually accomplish something.

 

Here is something to add to the debate as well. Think about this - go to Iraq, Iran or Palestine, and you'll probably find that 50% or more of the population has some level of boiling hatred towards the U.S. Take the same poll of Muslims in the U.S., or even in Europe, and you'll find that number to be much smaller. Why? Because those people have suddenly had their eyes opened to the benefits of the west, of democracy, and of free markets. They aren't brainwashed anymore. So, as counter-intuitive as it may be, one of the best things we can do is to INCREASE ties between our culture and theirs. More immigrants, more economic flow, more information.

[kapkomet]

NSS:

 

Hyperbole.

 

I do, however, think that the extremes of both sides are being peddled.

 

I need to get back to work... more later.

[Jenksismyhero]

Oh for f***s sake. There are, and have been, many, many alternative paths this government could have taken here that would be far better solutions than the two alternatives that we are being pedaled - attacking countries for no good reason, or retreat and appease. Are you telling me you have fallen for this extremist crap Kap? This B.S. the administration And the media are pushing about either supporting their failed Iraq effort or you are some sort of coward? Or else you want all out war and are a warmonger?

 

Its not about Islam, and its not about poverty. Its about the west having meddled in the affairs of that region stupidly and for far too long, coupled with the fact that we NEED the oil that is in that region. And from the local angle, mix in a nice dose of corrupt governments and religious control of law, and there you have it. Add it up, and you create a cauldron of hatred towards the west AND they have some big chips that we don't.

 

You want a real solution? If you aren't willing to shrink scope in Iraq (i.e. take the Kurd route) and clean up the corruption and waste in the U.S. coalition, then get the hell out of there entirely. Spend HALF the money we throw at Iraq on alternative energy, and in a few years, we suddenly won't need them anymore. We can be energy independent, or at least a lot closer to it. THEN, we can go back in (if we so desire) with the advantage on our side, and actually accomplish something.

 

Here is something to add to the debate as well. Think about this - go to Iraq, Iran or Palestine, and you'll probably find that 50% or more of the population has some level of boiling hatred towards the U.S. Take the same poll of Muslims in the U.S., or even in Europe, and you'll find that number to be much smaller. Why? Because those people have suddenly had their eyes opened to the benefits of the west, of democracy, and of free markets. They aren't brainwashed anymore. So, as counter-intuitive as it may be, one of the best things we can do is to INCREASE ties between our culture and theirs. More immigrants, more economic flow, more information.

 

Bah, I disagree completely. You mistake muslim countries with muslim extremist groups. What does Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah or any other terrorist group care if we need their regions oil? They don't. They could careless. Even if tomorrow the government flips a switch and we never need another drop of oil again it's not like terrorists will stop and say 'well gosh, I guess we no longer have what they want, I guess we better stop attacking them.'

 

As much as my 'side' is stupid in thinking an all out war will solve the problem, your 'side' continues to think that we're dealing with rational, logical human beings. We're not. You can't deal with irrational people in a rational way. It doesn't work. These people want to murder people. They want to make the West crumble in the name of Allah. This isn't some sort 'you killed my brother, now i'm going to kill you' revenge scenario. It's decades and decades of state sponsored brain-washing, mixed with some stupid US policy, that's created this beast.

 

And gee - middle-easterners think better of the West when they get introduced to democracy, freedom and free markets. Hmm, isn't that a reason we're in Iraq to begin with?

[mmmmmbeeer]

Bah, I disagree completely. You mistake muslim countries with muslim extremist groups. What does Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah or any other terrorist group care if we need their regions oil? They don't. They could careless. Even if tomorrow the government flips a switch and we never need another drop of oil again it's not like terrorists will stop and say 'well gosh, I guess we no longer have what they want, I guess we better stop attacking them.'

 

I think he was implying that if we diverted war funds to alternative energy exploration, became successful at utilizing those alternative energies, we would then have no reason to use their homelands as military staging grounds. If we have no interest in the oil, there's nothing else there but desert. If they want to blow one another up, have at it. We'll be out of the mess. It really comes down to having a belief that our government's involvement in that region, due to oil concerns, played a large role in the viciousness with which the radicals look at us. If we no longer have any involvement then the strains in the relationship must soften.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think he was implying that if we diverted war funds to alternative energy exploration, became successful at utilizing those alternative energies, we would then have no reason to use their homelands as military staging grounds. If we have no interest in the oil, there's nothing else there but desert. If they want to blow one another up, have at it. We'll be out of the mess. It really comes down to having a belief that our government's involvement in that region, due to oil concerns, played a large role in the viciousness with which the radicals look at us. If we no longer have any involvement then the strains in the relationship must soften.

That's pretty much it. We can't "fix" it now, but we can sure as heck get out and let them blow each other to bits. Or at least go in without an obvious artery there to cut.

[Jenksismyhero]

That's pretty much it. We can't "fix" it now, but we can sure as heck get out and let them blow each other to bits. Or at least go in without an obvious artery there to cut.

 

 

I guess I'm thinking the reaction would be just as bad. Instead of them hating us for being there, they'll hate us for no longer spending a ridiculous amount on their one major export. One of Bin Laden's beefs was that we let Saudi Arabia take a step or two backwards. Imagine what the middle east would become we pulled out our XX billions we spend on oil.

[NorthSideSox72]

I guess I'm thinking the reaction would be just as bad. Instead of them hating us for being there, they'll hate us for no longer spending a ridiculous amount on their one major export. One of Bin Laden's beefs was that we let Saudi Arabia take a step or two backwards. Imagine what the middle east would become we pulled out our XX billions we spend on oil.

I'll predict what the Middle East would become...

 

In the short term: oil outlet for China, India and other nations who aren't as quick on the alternative energy bandwagon.

 

In the long term: Tourism haven. I kid you not. And for that industry, which is already growing there, they need stability.

[Rex Kickass]

As much as my 'side' is stupid in thinking an all out war will solve the problem, your 'side' continues to think that we're dealing with rational, logical human beings. We're not. You can't deal with irrational people in a rational way. It doesn't work. These people want to murder people. They want to make the West crumble in the name of Allah. This isn't some sort 'you killed my brother, now i'm going to kill you' revenge scenario. It's decades and decades of state sponsored brain-washing, mixed with some stupid US policy, that's created this beast.

 

OK, you're not far off here. It's decades of state sponsored brain-washing mixed with stupid US policy that created this beast. Yes. However, all out war against extremist Islamics without increasing trade and cultural ties that seem respectful and not imperialist is just continuing stupid US policy.

 

It seems to me, you need to take the Yasser Arafat two pronged approach here. Gun in one hand, olive branch in the other. Feed the people, attack the enemy. You CAN do both. We just don't. Or we don't do it very well. There's not much that we can do with the "true believers" and there is some of that in the middle and upper classes of Islamist societies other than neutralize the threat.

 

But you can also extinguish the oxygen that feeds the terror beast by working to bring people out of poverty in the middle east. By bringing them a better way of life in a way that doesn't seem paternalistic or disrespectful of their culture. It's a tough balance to acheive - but its one that we CAN do, as long as we're ambitious enough to achieve it. Sadly, I don't think our society is. We'd rather react in anger. Or ignore it.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Scary stuff. Just got back from London about 2 weeks before this happened, and I see one of the targets is in front of my hotel.

[DBAHO]

Just heard on the news that Terminal 4 at Heathrow was being evacuated and passengers are being searched. Not good.

[EvilMonkey]

I wonder what the Iman's on London are saying about this? Are they condemning the acts as senseless violence forbidden by the Koran, are they insisting that it wasn't muslims who did this but instead some evil jew plot to make them look bad, or blaming it all as an expected reaction to the british knighting Rushke (however you spell that name)?

Edited July 3, 2007 by Alpha Dog

[Jenksismyhero]

OK, you're not far off here. It's decades of state sponsored brain-washing mixed with stupid US policy that created this beast. Yes. However, all out war against extremist Islamics without increasing trade and cultural ties that seem respectful and not imperialist is just continuing stupid US policy.

 

It seems to me, you need to take the Yasser Arafat two pronged approach here. Gun in one hand, olive branch in the other. Feed the people, attack the enemy. You CAN do both. We just don't. Or we don't do it very well. There's not much that we can do with the "true believers" and there is some of that in the middle and upper classes of Islamist societies other than neutralize the threat.

 

But you can also extinguish the oxygen that feeds the terror beast by working to bring people out of poverty in the middle east. By bringing them a better way of life in a way that doesn't seem paternalistic or disrespectful of their culture. It's a tough balance to acheive - but its one that we CAN do, as long as we're ambitious enough to achieve it. Sadly, I don't think our society is. We'd rather react in anger. Or ignore it.

 

I would agree this would be the best approach in theory, but will it work? It certainly didn't work all that well with Arafat. And aren't we trying to do this in Iraq? We're trying to set up a democracy for the people there. We're trying to set up their infrastructure (obviously we could be doing a better job at it). The people there want that stuff. They have no beef with us. But the terrorist groups resist it, just like they would in every country. And it's not like the people can revolt on their own to overthrow their governments, they don't have the man power nor the weapons to do so.

 

For this approach to work we would need to start a broad campaign to reclaim our image, then take military action to oust any militant regime in charge. But would this ever work with the 24/7 bashing on the US and the rest of the West that these countries spout out to their people?

[NorthSideSox72]

I would agree this would be the best approach in theory, but will it work? It certainly didn't work all that well with Arafat. And aren't we trying to do this in Iraq? We're trying to set up a democracy for the people there. We're trying to set up their infrastructure (obviously we could be doing a better job at it). The people there want that stuff. They have no beef with us. But the terrorist groups resist it, just like they would in every country. And it's not like the people can revolt on their own to overthrow their governments, they don't have the man power nor the weapons to do so.

 

For this approach to work we would need to start a broad campaign to reclaim our image, then take military action to oust any militant regime in charge. But would this ever work with the 24/7 bashing on the US and the rest of the West that these countries spout out to their people?

The part in bold hits on an important aspect to this, which we have done a really poor job at - information. The operations from military Psy-Ops are weak at best. But that's what we should expect - they are the military, and they are by nature the opposite of subversive. We could be making more and better use of private channels to penetrate the information networks in these places, and subtly get the message across. And by message, I don't mean "America is great". I mean real, unedited news and information.