KW Speaks about Buehrle's NTC

[dagotony06]

No, people just don't like to hear it 20 times in the same thread.

 

Seriously, if you're THAT fed up with the Sox front office, go jump on the Red Sox bandwagon.

Well I like my opinion to be heard I guess.

 

I would never root for any other team than the Whitesox. It's been my team since birth. I just don't agree with alot of the decisions the front office makes. But I have grown to accept it. I'm just holding out hope something gets worked out with MB.

 

I think we have had a pretty good discussion about this today, hope nobody was offended by any of my posts. Didn't mean to if I did. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion on this subject, and even if I don't agree with it, I still respect it. After all, we are all Whitesox fans, and just want to see the same thing, and that's Continued success and many World series Championships.

[WCSox]

Well I like my opinion to be heard I guess.

 

Yeah, I guess that you do.

[Steff]

Ok cool, now I understand, it is your opinion. When you stated they refuse to lock up starting pitching, I knew that was not true which is why I responded.

 

 

 

POTM right there.

[quickman]

mark is agreeing to sign for probably 30-40 million dollars less than he could as a free agent and kenny wont even give him a no trade clause. thats just stupid. I dont get how he says he cant build a championship team if he does that. I thought good pitching won championships and we're getting a discount. If the deal falls through now i'll be really angry

 

I sincerely do not beleive that anyone would give up 30 or 40 million. There is just no way ANY agent or pitcher does that, so I think comparing him to Zito is a complete mistake and a wste of time. Now if you want to say he is worth an extra year at 14 million then I would understand, but he will not get barry Zito money.

[NYSox35]

I sincerely do not beleive that anyone would give up 30 or 40 million. There is just no way ANY agent or pitcher does that, so I think comparing him to Zito is a complete mistake and a wste of time. Now if you want to say he is worth an extra year at 14 million then I would understand, but he will not get barry Zito money.

 

I certainly don't think 5 at 16 = 80 or 6 at 15 = 90 is that out of the question for Mark.

It's not so far-fetched that he's leaving a ton on the table.

[quickman]

I certainly don't think 5 at 16 = 80 or 6 at 15 = 90 is that out of the question for Mark.

It's not so far-fetched that he's leaving a ton on the table.

 

 

ok we will just disagree. We will find out soon enough.

[kapkomet]

Mark will end up with a $14-16 million per year contract. Gee, we offered him one, supposedly. And that's not Zito money. So what point did I miss?

[quickman]

Mark will end up with a $14-16 million per year contract. Gee, we offered him one, supposedly. And that's not Zito money. So what point did I miss?

 

 

You apparently missed the point about him passing up 30 or 40 million. I completely agree with you. We offered him a contract, we extended our 3 year term to 4, we offered a limited no trade clause, i think we did very well, and i think it is a great deal for both sides, but it appears the whitesox management is too cheap. It appears they should just give MB what he wants.

[LVSoxFan]

Well I like my opinion to be heard I guess.

 

I would never root for any other team than the Whitesox. It's been my team since birth. I just don't agree with alot of the decisions the front office makes. But I have grown to accept it. I'm just holding out hope something gets worked out with MB.

 

I think we have had a pretty good discussion about this today, hope nobody was offended by any of my posts. Didn't mean to if I did. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion on this subject, and even if I don't agree with it, I still respect it. After all, we are all Whitesox fans, and just want to see the same thing, and that's Continued success and many World series Championships.

 

Diego don't take it so hard. I agree with your thoughts and people here are just blowin ya s***.

 

Welcome to soxtalk, LOL!

 

[kapkomet]

You apparently missed the point about him passing up 30 or 40 million. I completely agree with you. We offered him a contract, we extended our 3 year term to 4, we offered a limited no trade clause, i think we did very well, and i think it is a great deal for both sides, but it appears the whitesox management is too cheap. It appears they should just give MB what he wants.

We did, except for a NTC.

 

I can't remember what Zito's deal was, but in terms of $$ per year average, MB isn't too far behind with the offer on the table, so how is he leaving $30 - $40 Million on the table (except for length of contract)?

 

I'm so confused.

[quickman]

We did, except for a NTC.

 

I can't remember what Zito's deal was, but in terms of $$ per year average, MB isn't too far behind with the offer on the table, so how is he leaving $30 - $40 Million on the table (except for length of contract)?

 

I'm so confused.

 

 

CORRECT! But someone earlier in the thread said he is leaving 30 -40 million on the table by signing with the sox, comparing it to Zitos contract which I believe runs for 7 years. thats all. You missed nothing other than mark is getting a nice deal, and the whitesox are getting a nice deal, too bad its not a nice deal.

[WCSox]

CORRECT! But someone earlier in the thread said he is leaving 30 -40 million on the table by signing with the sox, comparing it to Zitos contract which I believe runs for 7 years.

 

What does the length of contract matter when all of the money is guaranteed?

[quickman]

What does the length of contract matter when all of the money is guaranteed?

 

WELL...it would mean 3 more years of more money guaranteed. Not sure I understand your question. What am I missing here? someone said he is passing up 30 -40 million dollars moe to stay with the sox. Do you beleive that? If so how are you calculating it? Most likely by adding 3 more years.

[dagotony06]

Diego don't take it so hard. I agree with your thoughts and people here are just blowin ya s***.

 

Welcome to soxtalk, LOL!

 

Thanks LV

I'm not taking it hard bro. I was just wanting everyone to know who I was disagreeing today with, that even though we disagree, I still respect what their opinions are. I know sometimes I may come across as a know it all, or my opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, at least that's what my friends say. I'm not like that at all, and sometimes I swear a little too much also.

Edited July 2, 2007 by diegotony06

[NYSox35]

Whoopy! We extended our term from 3 years to 4. Well, I guess that should just about do it there then.

 

For the record, I think $14 million a year is a fair offer, but while it's fair from the Sox, it's certainly also fair from Mark's end of things.

Also for the record, Zito's contract is 7 years at 18 million per.

 

I don't think I or anyone else thinks he'd get that on the open market, but should mark hit FA,

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that 4 for 56, or even 5 for 75 is what he'd go for. Someone would

step in and come up with a 6th year or 16 million for 4 or 5 years.

 

Given that, we should give this guy the FULL NTC. The whole fiasco is a joke...

 

WELL...it would mean 3 more years of more money guaranteed. Not sure I understand your question. What am I missing here? someone said he is passing up 30 -40 million dollars moe to stay with the sox. Do you beleive that? If so how are you calculating it? Most likely by adding 3 more years.

 

30 to 40 is probably on the high end, but it's certainly in the range of 20-25 million

(5 for 75 would be 19 million)

Edited July 2, 2007 by NYSox35

[dagotony06]

KW was just on Channel 7, saying that he is hopeful a deal can be reached. He said he wishes that it wouldn't have become public, but he understands that it has and that he is gonna have to answer questions about it. He said Buerhle's camp wants to get the deal done and so does the SOX.

[quickman]

Whoopy! We extended our term from 3 years to 4. Well, I guess that should just about do it there then.

 

For the record, I think $14 million a year is a fair offer, but while it's fair from the Sox, it's certainly also fair from Mark's end of things.

Also for the record, Zito's contract is 7 years at 18 million per.

 

I don't think I or anyone else thinks he'd get that on the open market, but should mark hit FA,

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that 4 for 56, or even 5 for 75 is what he'd go for. Someone would

step in and come up with a 6th year or 16 million for 4 or 5 years.

 

Given that, we should give this guy the FULL NTC. The whole fiasco is a joke...

30 to 40 is probably on the high end, but it's certainly in the range of 20-25 million

(5 for 75 would be 19 million)

 

 

Well then i would completely advise mark not to sign any contract with the whitesox. In addition i think that kind of money would hand cuff our team from getting better. Therefore I would start the trading forum immediately. Buerhle is no ace and that to me is ace money. In addition, I do not think the cardinals will give him a ton more as well. The economics are what they are. The two teams Buerhle wants to play with won't give him the kind of money your talking about. The sox with or without buerhle are still a fourth place team. Time to unload the guy.

 

Whoopy! We extended our term from 3 years to 4. Well, I guess that should just about do it there then.

 

For the record, I think $14 million a year is a fair offer, but while it's fair from the Sox, it's certainly also fair from Mark's end of things.

Also for the record, Zito's contract is 7 years at 18 million per.

 

I don't think I or anyone else thinks he'd get that on the open market, but should mark hit FA,

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that 4 for 56, or even 5 for 75 is what he'd go for. Someone would

step in and come up with a 6th year or 16 million for 4 or 5 years.

 

Given that, we should give this guy the FULL NTC. The whole fiasco is a joke...

30 to 40 is probably on the high end, but it's certainly in the range of 20-25 million

(5 for 75 would be 19 million)

 

 

I can certainly see buerhle giving up a fifth year at 14 million to sign with the sox. Although thats alot of money its a caluclated risk that he will be healthy after the fourth year and will be young enough for a another contract. Again its a calculated risk, but I do not believe he will get more than 5 years on his next contract.Just my opinion.

[WCSox]

KW was just on Channel 7, saying that he is hopeful a deal can be reached. He said he wishes that it wouldn't have become public, but he understands that it has and that he is gonna have to answer questions about it. He said Buerhle's camp wants to get the deal done and so does the SOX.

 

Well, that's some good news. Thanks for the update.

 

Thanks LV

I'm not taking it hard bro. I was just wanting everyone to know who I was disagreeing today with, that even though we disagree, I still respect what their opinions are. I know sometimes I may come across as a know it all, or my opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, at least that's what my friends say. I'm not like that at all, and sometimes I swear a little too much also.

 

No foul, no harm.

[NYSox35]

Well then i would completely advise mark not to sign any contract with the whitesox. In addition i think that kind of money would hand cuff our team from getting better. Therefore I would start the trading forum immediately. Buerhle is no ace and that to me is ace money. In addition, I do not think the cardinals will give him a ton more as well. The economics are what they are. The two teams Buerhle wants to play with won't give him the kind of money your talking about. The sox with or without buerhle are still a fourth place team. Time to unload the guy.

I can certainly see buerhle giving up a fifth year at 14 million to sign with the sox. Although thats alot of money its a caluclated risk that he will be healthy after the fourth year and will be young enough for a another contract. Again its a calculated risk, but I do not believe he will get more than 5 years on his next contract.Just my opinion.

 

I see your points, I just think that at the start of this, most of us thought it'd take 5 years $75 million to get him signed (at least).

When the #'s about 4 years 56 million came out, I couldn't believe my ears and thought it was a great deal.

 

I understand the idea of unloading a pitcher, I just think it should be JC or JV instead of Mark like many on the board have suggested. Why not build around Mark, JG and Danks going forward? That's just me though.

Edited July 2, 2007 by NYSox35

[Dick Allen]

I really don't know how going to 4 years with Buerhle could be considered going out on a limb considering they extended Vazquez 3 years with a year remaining on his deal in essence giving him a 4 year deal, and he has 3 years and about 400 innings on Mark. Buerhle seems like he would put a lot less wear and tear on his shoulder and elbow with the way he pitches as opposed to Vazquez.

[hitlesswonder]

I agree with Quickman. If Buehrle signs with the Sox without the NTC he will get dealt. The Sox have a shot at being historically bad in 2008 and 2009, and shedding veteran contracts will happen those 2 years. Even if not traded, why would he want to play for such bad teams. Go sign with a team that will be competitive.

 

Also, given the restrictions the Sox place on signing pitchers they need to trade Garland ASAP. He's not going to sign a 3 year deal either and having him in 2008 isn't do anything for the Sox. Every day that goes by diminishes his value. He should be able to bring back someone like Kemp.

[dagotony06]

KW is on CTL, he said he is optimistic the MB will get signed. He said he regrets that so much of the contract has been made public, but it is what it is. He says that the NTC basically the only point in the contract that he wouldn't be protected by the NTC would be in the middle of the contract, maybe 18 months. But he says he is optimistic about him signing so I guess we are just gonna have to wait and see.

[WCSox]

Also, given the restrictions the Sox place on signing pitchers they need to trade Garland ASAP. He's not going to sign a 3 year deal either and having him in 2008 isn't do anything for the Sox. Every day that goes by diminishes his value. He should be able to bring back someone like Kemp.

 

If the Sox re-sign Mark, they have a legitimate shot in '08. I wouldn't trade Jon just yet if that happens.

 

But I wouldn't be opposed to Kenny dealing Jose ASAP, even if we have to eat half of his remaining deal.

[joejoesox]

why would buerhle sign a deal with a rather large "Home town discount", that doesn't include a full NTC, which then has an 18 month period that he CAN be traded to another team? he'd be stuck with a team he doesn't want to play for, with money that was intended to be a home town discount, not a discount that another team can slurp up and leave mark with a rather unimpressive contract with some random team

 

this IS a possibility right? if i were mark, i'd be like, full NTC, or 17m/4, otherwise there's a likely chance he's going to be getting screwed imo

Edited July 2, 2007 by joesaiditstrue

[dagotony06]

On a side note:

PODS back on th DL