Why would you trade Bobby Jenks?

[whitesoxfan101]

I know this will get me jumped on, since I'm weird for not seeing 94 on the JUGS gun and panicking when Jenks is in this year. But the numbers do not lie:

 

2007: 22 for 24 in saves (all star)

2006: 41 for 45 in saves (all star)

2005: 6 for 8 in saves

2005 postseason: 4 for 5 in saves

 

For those of you not gifted in mathematics, he's 69 for 77 in saves, or 89.6 (rounded to 90) percent in regular season saves, plus he went 4 for 5 in the 2005 postseason and closed out the ALDS and World Series, as a rookie, on the road (plus he of course closed out the division clinching win, on the road, as a rookie).

 

He's also 26 years old and averages about 10 strikeouts per 9 innings and less than a hit per inning for his career. Now say what you will about how much Bobby is used, his velocity, how closers are a dime a dozen, whatever....but to just trade that now and trust you can find somebody else who will match those numbers in one of the most important roles in the game of baseball is asking for trouble IMO.

Edited July 2, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[GoodAsGould]

umm very few people have even brought up the thought of trading Jenks and those that have were quickly verbally abused for such a though, so what exactly is this thread trying to prove?

[witesoxfan]

Because the Sox could get an absolute ton for him, and he's an injury risk at the same time. Screws aren't meant to be in a person's body.

 

There's no need to deal him; it's merely the fact that if the Sox get a f***ton of talent, they should jump all over it.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Because:

 

1. If you're going to rebuild, then go at it with a vengeance. Bobby should fetch several (3) high quality prospects.

2. If you're going to rebuild, then you won't need a closer for 2 or 3 years, cause you're not going to be competitive. By that time Bobby may still be good, maybe not, but by then he'll be heading to free agency himself.

3. When we're good again, you'll be able to get a closer, either through your own system, or via free agency. They're generally around every so often.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. Bobby has been terrific for the Sox.

[Chisoxfn]

Because how much value is a closer to a rebuilding team? I consider the closer one of the last pieces you really need (and by closer I mean a true shutdown closer, ala Jenks/Rivera/Hoffman/Krod) and the type of piece that you usually can find in relatively short notice.

 

I mean to a rebuilding team wouldn't it be better to get a Salm (best catching prospect in baseball) and Escboar (very very good SS prospect whose major league ready) at the very least for Jenks (plus I think you can get Devine or someone else) from a team like the Braves.

 

Ie you get a catcher and SS for the next 5-10 years for a closer (someone who is not going to be the key piece to your rebuilding at least not early on).

[whitesoxfan101]

umm very few people have even brought up the thought of trading Jenks and those that have were quickly verbally abused for such a though, so what exactly is this thread trying to prove?

Read the boards, a ton of people want to trade him, and it completely bewilders me. And as much as I love Bobby, he's not bringing 3 quality prospects back. No way.

Edited July 2, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Jack Parkman]

You trade him because he would get you a s***load of young talent and this team isn't going anywhere for the next 3-5 years so his talent would be wasted here. That is just the main reason. The other reason is that most people would agree that he is an injury waiting to happen and that his fastball has dropped about 8 mph since 2005. Bobby's fastball was at 97-101 mph in 2005 with the slowest reading at 96, but now I've seen it as low as 89 and it is mostly 91-93 with a few pops at 94-95. Bobby's only saving grace is his curveball, but he rarely throws it for strikes. I'm surprised he's done this well so far because all hitters have to do is sit on his straight-as-an-arrow 93 mph fastball and he'd be just as effective as the rest of the bullpen.

[GoodAsGould]

Read the boards, a ton of people want to trade him, and it completely bewilders me. And as much as I love Bobby, he's not bringing 3 quality prospects back. No way.

 

People want to trade him if we get a s***load back in return, and if you said we arent going to get a s***load back than there is no reason to worry about it.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Read the boards, a ton of people want to trade him, and it completely bewilders me. And as much as I love Bobby, he's not bringing 3 quality prospects back. No way.

 

 

A top notch closer who makes $450k/year.....and you don't think that he's fetch 3 quality prospects?!?!? I brought this up in trade winds weeks ago; he's the most valuable asset on this team who, if we enter a complete rebuilding mode, is worthless to us. What do you think Boston would command for Papelbon, another top notch closer making league minimum? If the Sox didn't have a closer and were in the playoff hunt, would you be willing to give up Gio, Sweeney, and Floyd for Papelbon, who hasn't even hit his arbitration years yet? Of course you would. Jenks is in the same tier of elite closers as Papelbon but, even more important, is playoff/pressure tested.

 

I'd go as far to say that if we deal off 2-3 SP, Dye, Thome, and Gooch while Jenks is still on this team I'll actually be very upset and cite it as a complete failure on KW's part.

 

Edit: I wouldn't deal him if we got the equivalent of Gio, Sweeney, and Floyd...it was just an example using our weak system and trying to pick the top 3 'spects.

Edited July 2, 2007 by mmmmmbeeer

[hitlesswonder]

I like Jenks a lot. He's been effective throwing less than 98 MPH which is impressive. The question is only whether or not he can be a part of the next competitive Sox team. IF you think the Sox can contend in 2008 or 2009, I think you'd want to keep him. If it will take longer than that, you have to weigh the risk of injury into the equation, as well as if he cold bring in trade something harder to acquire than a closer. The Tigers went to series last year with Jones and the Indians are winning with (despite?) Borowski this season. If Jenks could get you Salty and Escobar, it's something to consider.

[greg775]

If you're going to rebuild, then you won't need a closer for 2 or 3 years, cause you're not going to be competitive. By that time Bobby may still be good, maybe not, but by then he'll be heading to free agency himself.

 

Some people act like it's good business for the Sox to suck the next 2-3 or more years.

You think the owners of the team are going to want to be horses*** while rebuilding?

You try to put the best team out there every year.

Trading Jenks would be moronic.

There would be no closer and just another reason to lose more games.

[BearSox]

I think Kalapse made a post a couple days ago or so that was something like this...

 

1. He is still overweight.

2. He is consistantly losing velocity on his fastball and thats not good when it is as straight as an arrow. (I think he topped out at 94 today)

3. His elbow is held together by screws and is a major injury risk over the next few seasons.

4. Bad teams don't need top closers.

5. He has yet to be a consistent pitcher for longer then 1 half.

 

With all that being said though, he still has a very good reputation around baseball and still has a ton of trade value. I would put him on the market, and if someone like the Braves would be willing to deal Salty and Escorbar, or to a lesser extent Lillibridge, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I would hope Kenny would to.

 

Some people act like it's good business for the Sox to suck the next 2-3 or more years.

You think the owners of the team are going to want to be horses*** while rebuilding?

You try to put the best team out there every year.

Trading Jenks would be moronic.

There would be no closer and just another reason to lose more games.

It is almost impossible for any GM to put out a good team that could compete every year with this old as hell lineup and pretty terrible farm.

 

Believe it or not, a rebuilding is the best possible thing any GM could do to this team.

[hitlesswonder]

You try to put the best team out there every year.

The Sox didn't try to do that this season. Instead they half-assed it and acquired pitchers for the future while still trying to compete. I don't want them to aspire to mediocrity.

[witesoxfan]

I'm not sure Atlanta's really an option. Soriano has been filthy, Wickman's been as good as he has to be, and then a bunch of arms fill it out. Tyler Yates, Peter Moylan, and Oscar Villarreal have all been solid, and Buddy Carlyle and Chad Paronto are a lefty and an innings eater respectively.

 

And to hit on a topic Cheat has covered before, why do they Sox continue to use high upside arms in long relief roles? Masset has a great arm, but he's a AAA or perhaps even AA pitcher right now rotting away in the bullpen; why not send him to the minors and let him work on a few things down there and call up anyone else? He's being wasted away getting into 3 games every 2 weeks.

[BearSox]

I want Massett starting in AAA.

[Kalapse]

I think Kalapse made a post a couple days ago or so that was something like this...

I'm reading this thread from the last post through the first so pardon me if I missed anything important at the beginning. Here is that post you speak of:

 

A few thoughts:

 

1.) Bobby Jenks probably has the most trade value of any player currently on the 25 man roster. The last closer I can think of who was traded at the deadline was Ugueth Urbina in 2003. He was 29, a 3 month rental and struggling mightily. The Rangers were able to coax the #31 prospect in baseball (Adrian Gonzalez) away from the Marlins at the beginning of July in exchange for Ugy. Now what if you put a 26 year old, hard throwing closer who is currently pitching well and still a year away from arbitration on the block? What do you fetch in return then?

 

2.) The Sox could hold the balance of power in both leagues with Buehrle and Jenks on the block. A team looking for a closer who's locked up for another 4 years and a top flight SP who is possibly a rental could sell the farm in a blockbuster deal to acquire both and make a push. You could end up playing 10 teams off each other for Jenks.

 

3.) Bobby seems to have an excellent reputation around baseball, considered by most to be a very good and reliable closer despite the fact that he has yet to pitch more than half a season (continually) of consistently good baseball.

 

4.) The guy is still like 50 pounds overweight, has been losing velocity since July of last season and has an arm that's being held together by a couple screws. I honestly don't think he'll make it to free agency before suffering a catastrophic injury or just becoming completely ineffective.

 

5.) If the Sox are going to truly rebuild, as in trade off most of the older, more expensive players for young unproven talent then chances are they're not going to be even close to competing over the next 2-4 years. Meaning a closer of Jenks' caliber really isn't needed and becomes a luxury at that point. And considering the kind of talent Detroit, Cleveland and even Minnesota are going to have on their major league rosters in the coming seasons I'm not sure an all out rebuilding phase would be all that bad of an idea.

[Chisoxfn]

The Sox are probably going into re-build mode with or without Jenks on the team. A few have already brought it up, but what do you need a All-Star closer for if you have nothing to close out?

 

Jenks obviously won't have any sort of Buehrle type value, but his value is very high to a playoff team in need to a stopper. It's too bad Detroit and Cleveland are both in the division.

 

There are also health concerns. Every Spring it seems Bobby shows up bigger and bigger to camp, only to cut weight in March and early April. The Sox have lucked out of late, but the weight, the hip, and the pin in his elbow all are serious concerns.

With all that said, you only trade Jenks if you get a package that you can't say no to, but with the way this team is headed, Jenks shouldn't be untouchable.

Tony...Jenks is going to have twice the value Buehrle has. He's signed to an insanely affordable contract and will be under the team who acquires him's control for a couple more years.

 

Cleveland, Detroit, Atlanta could all use significant upgrades at the closer position (albeit the Sox probably would think twice about dealing with a divisional foe). Heck, despite Saito kicking ass for the Dodgers I could very well see them consider making a significant upgrade at the back of there pen.

 

s***, just look at the ridiculous value a guy like Ugueth Urbina got a couple years back (and Jenks is an upper echelon closer while Urbina was a FA to be and not an upper echelon closer at that time).

 

The only people I think could potentially have more value than Jenks are Paul Konerko (maybe Jon Garland/Javier Vazquez but I consider those two to be big question-marks) and all of those individuals have more value than Buehrle on the trade front (we could argue Buehrle is the best player but the others are all signed to affordable deals and would not construe as rentals).

[dagotony06]

Well considering that we will be trading Buerhle and most likely Garland, then the point of having a closer is mute. Why do you need a closer when you are gonna have a starting rotaion of JV,JC,Danks,Floyd, and the ever revolving 5th starter. So the need for a closer is one we won't have. I would trade him if I was able to get a good package for him. If KW can trade Buerhle, I look at it like there isn't an untouchable on this team. Thome, Konerko, everyone!!!

[Chisoxfn]

Some people act like it's good business for the Sox to suck the next 2-3 or more years.

You think the owners of the team are going to want to be horses*** while rebuilding?

You try to put the best team out there every year.

Trading Jenks would be moronic.

There would be no closer and just another reason to lose more games.

I'm just saying the worse thing the club could do is act as if it could sure fire compete and get caught in in between mode as that would eventually result in a long term losing period (I'm talking 5-10 years if you are lucky) as opposed to a 2 year rebuilding period if everything is done correctly.

 

And you never know, the team could get competitive before hand. I also think it depends on what Kenny is thinking. I'd love to save this team but its going to be hard to do with as weak of a minor league system as the Sox have (as the only way super realistic way this team can compete is to go out and trade some guys for talent and than go on a signing spree this off-season but the problem is this club isn't going to go on a signing spree that would give the Sox a payroll similar to that of Boston/New York).

[AirScott]

The Sox are probably going into re-build mode with or without Jenks on the team. A few have already brought it up, but what do you need a All-Star closer for if you have nothing to close out?

 

Jenks obviously won't have any sort of Buehrle type value, but his value is very high to a playoff team in need to a stopper. It's too bad Detroit and Cleveland are both in the division.

 

There are also health concerns. Every Spring it seems Bobby shows up bigger and bigger to camp, only to cut weight in March and early April. The Sox have lucked out of late, but the weight, the hip, and the pin in his elbow all are serious concerns.

With all that said, you only trade Jenks if you get a package that you can't say no to, but with the way this team is headed, Jenks shouldn't be untouchable.

Even with the way the Sox have played of late...all season...he's still on track for 40+ saves. He's 22 of 24 so far in save situations.

 

So here's an embarrassing thought: With Billy Koch circa 2003 in the closer's role, we're in the cellar of the AL Central. Closers aren't that easy to find.

[BearSox]

I'm not sure Atlanta's really an option. Soriano has been filthy, Wickman's been as good as he has to be, and then a bunch of arms fill it out. Tyler Yates, Peter Moylan, and Oscar Villarreal have all been solid, and Buddy Carlyle and Chad Paronto are a lefty and an innings eater respectively.

 

And to hit on a topic Cheat has covered before, why do they Sox continue to use high upside arms in long relief roles? Masset has a great arm, but he's a AAA or perhaps even AA pitcher right now rotting away in the bullpen; why not send him to the minors and let him work on a few things down there and call up anyone else? He's being wasted away getting into 3 games every 2 weeks.

Well, Wickman has looked very shakey this season, and isn't a long term option at CL. Soriano, maybe, but he (and Ledezma) might be moved to the rotation. Mike Gonzo is the next logical name to be their closer, but correct me if I am wrong, he is getting TJ surgery, and who knows when he will return and how he will do.

 

I think if we threw in Contreras to go along with Jenks, we could get a pretty good package of prospects from the Braves.

[Rowand44]

So here's an embarrassing thought: With Billy Koch circa 2003 in the closer's role, we're in the cellar of the AL Central. Closers aren't that easy to find.

And the difference between the cellar and 4th place is what exactly?

[dagotony06]

And the difference between the cellar and 4th place is what exactly?

A better draft pick that KW can work his magic with!!

[hitlesswonder]

I think if we threw in Contreras to go along with Jenks, we could get a pretty good package of prospects from the Braves.

 

I don't think you'd have to throw in anybody. I'm on record as being very pessimistic about the trade value of players. Jenks could get Salty and a strong SS prospect (e.g. Lillibridge) or at least equivalent value from another team. As has been pointed out, Jenks is a young all-star closer under control for 3 (4?) more years. He'll get more expensive in arbitration, but he should bring back two A prospects if traded.

[BearSox]

I don't think you'd have to throw in anybody. I'm on record as being very pessimistic about the trade value of players. Jenks could get Salty and a strong SS prospect (e.g. Lillibridge) or at least equivalent value from another team. As has been pointed out, Jenks is a young all-star closer under control for 3 (4?) more years. He'll get more expensive in arbitration, but he should bring back two A prospects if traded.

I'm just saying, if we throw in Contreras, we can get a real pretty package. If the Braves were/are interested, we could probably get Salty, Escobar, plus a B prospect or two.