Jack Parkman Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 7/2/07-exhibit A on why you trade Jenks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsida86 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) 7/2/07-exhibit A on why you trade Jenks. OMG HE BLEW A SAVE, HE MUST BE TRADED. Some of you people have no concept of reality. If you want to trade him because he has a ton of value and you are worried about injury risk sure. But to say that he is a bad pitcher, or bad closer is stupid at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) OMG HE BLEW A SAVE, HE MUST BE TRADED. Some of you people have no concept of reality. If you want to trade him because he has a ton of value and you are worried about injury risk sure. But to say that he is a bad pitcher, or bad closer is stupid at best. Definitely agree with you on this one. You'd think some people had never seen a blown save before. I'm personally all for dealing him if the right offer comes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I would not give him away but would listen to offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:24 PM) Definitely agree with you on this one. You'd think some people had never seen a blown save before. I'm personally all for dealing him if the right offer comes along. Well the only problem for us is that the 2 teams in most need for a closer are the Indians and the Tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 (edited) I'd trade him, but not until the offseason. He is one of only 2 or 3 guys in the bullpen that actually should be getting a major league check. As much as I know its useless to people who know better, its much better for the Sox to win 80-84 games this season than 70-75. The season tickebase is a house of cards IMO. A 90 win season and the so-called season ticket waiting list is long gone. There will be a lot of cancellations this year if no playoffs. But a team thats well below .500 could mean box office disaster. This offseason, if KW can acquire someone who can close or make someone a closer, I'm all for trading him, depending of course on the return. FWIW save percentage is a little overrated. Jenks probably leads the league in coming in with a 3 run lead. Shingo was 8 for 9 in saves when he lost his job. Edited July 3, 2007 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 It wasn't even like he got beat up out there either. A lucky fisted double and a high chopper single cost him. Sometimes luck isn't on your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(max power @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) It wasn't even like he got beat up out there either. A lucky fisted double and a high chopper single cost him. Sometimes luck isn't on your side. These things probably don't happen if he's got his good gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) These things probably don't happen if he's got his good gas. Well praytell, who should we put in if we get rid of Bobby. Trading him sure, teams would jump at it. But if you get frustrated with him, wait till his replacement toes with rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) Well praytell, who should we put in if we get rid of Bobby. Trading him sure, teams would jump at it. But if you get frustrated with him, wait till his replacement toes with rubber. As I said above, I would wait until the offseason to trade him, or the Sox could lose 100 games the way the rest of the bullpen performs. The current bullpen is horrible. It needs to be blown up. I thought last year was bad. Considering Jenks has 20 less strikeouts in 5 2/3 less innings than his rookie year though, you would have to admit his stuff isn't as intimidating, and not on the curve you would find ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 That Roberts at-bat was an example of why he's not as effective without his big fastball. Guys can look for that cut slider he throws, and just fight off the fastball. His curve also is nowhere near as sharp as it was, and ends up being high and out of the zone a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) As I said above, I would wait until the offseason to trade him, or the Sox could lose 100 games the way the rest of the bullpen performs. The current bullpen is horrible. It needs to be blown up. I thought last year was bad. Considering Jenks has 20 less strikeouts in 5 2/3 less innings than his rookie year though, you would have to admit his stuff isn't as intimidating, and not on the curve you would find ideal. Who is going to close the games next year. Give me a name. Just saying, it needs to be blown up. Sure thats easy. Who is his replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:46 PM) Who is going to close the games next year. Give me a name. Just saying, it needs to be blown up. Sure thats easy. Who is his replacement. I don't know. Someone will be available. KW should have some starters to dangle around. As I said, I would need to know the return before dealing Jenks, who still is effective, but a guy who they run ads about boasting about his ability to throw a ball really hard. I'm very concerned. He reminds me of Bob James. They both threw very hard, both had some weight problems, and James went from great to horrible very quickly. I'd even think about making Vazquez a closer although I'm sure KW wouldn't consider it considering his salary. I'd think he could be excellent going 1 inning a night and cutting down on the number of different pitches he throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't know. Someone will be available Brave words. If not we can always use MacDougal, Buckwich or Boone Logan. Gasp!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) OMG HE BLEW A SAVE, HE MUST BE TRADED. Some of you people have no concept of reality. If you want to trade him because he has a ton of value and you are worried about injury risk sure. But to say that he is a bad pitcher, or bad closer is stupid at best. I am not saying that you should trade him for blowing 1 save, I am saying trade him because odds are that he is going to have more and more nights like tonight in the future. Did you read my post earlier in this thread? Bobby Jenks is going to go the Billy Koch route. Straight high 90s heat disappears; closer gets shelled every time he gets a save opportunity. The ONLY reason that he hasn't been shelled is his nasty uncle charlie and he rarely throws it for a strike. I said it once and I'll say it again, It baffles me that Jenks has had as much success this year as he has because all hitters need to do is sit on his 93 mph straight fastball and he'll be toast. I think that hitters respect Bobby's fastball too much for some reason because it is nowhere near what it used to be. I'd trade Bobby by the deadline mainly because I think he'll be toast next season when the new scouting reports on his fastball are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) I don't know. Someone will be available. KW should have some starters to dangle around. As I said, I would need to know the return before dealing Jenks, who still is effective, but a guy who they run ads about boasting about his ability to throw a ball really hard. I'm very concerned. He reminds me of Bob James. They both threw very hard, both had some weight problems, and James went from great to horrible very quickly. I'd even think about making Vazquez a closer although I'm sure KW wouldn't consider it considering his salary. I'd think he could be excellent going 1 inning a night and cutting down on the number of different pitches he throws. Vazquez a closer. He has more value as a starter. The I dont know, someone will be available is bulls***. Jenks is cheap, dirt freaking cheap. He is under control for a long time. So the risk is minimal. Who is this mysterious golden arm that will come in here, and be our closer. Mind you for dirt cheap because rebuilding teams dont spend a ton of money on their closer. After this year of crap in the pen, people should be looking to keep what is good in our pen, and jettison what is bad. Yet it seems that we want to get rid of our good closer, because of bad memories of past players. QUOTE(southsida86 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) I am not saying that you should trade him for blowing 1 save, I am saying trade him because odds are that he is going to have more and more nights like tonight in the future. Did you read my post earlier in this thread? Bobby Jenks is going to go the Billy Koch route. Straight high 90s heat disappears; closer gets shelled every time he gets a save opportunity. The ONLY reason that he hasn't been shelled is his nasty uncle charlie and he rarely throws it for a strike. I said it once and I'll say it again, It baffles me that Jenks has had as much success this year as he has because all hitters need to do is sit on his 93 mph straight fastball and he'll be toast. I think that hitters respect Bobby's fastball too much for some reason because it is nowhere near what it used to be. I'd trade Bobby by the deadline mainly because I think he'll be toast next season when the new scouting reports on his fastball are out. If Bobby was so easy to figure out, the scouts would of been on to him by April and they would of been shelling him like crazy. This isnt 1950, the scouting reports and radar gun readings are available real time. Tonight look at the hits, all bloops. Its not like they figured him out and were putting the ball to the wall. In Tampa, he had some saves that the ball was hit a hell of a lot harder than tonight. And I dont recall everyone talking about how he is finished and needs to go. Oh he got the save, and thats all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 11:00 PM) Vazquez a closer. He has more value as a starter. The I dont know, someone will be available is bulls***. Jenks is cheap, dirt freaking cheap. He is under control for a long time. So the risk is minimal. Who is this mysterious golden arm that will come in here, and be our closer. Mind you for dirt cheap because rebuilding teams dont spend a ton of money on their closer. After this year of crap in the pen, people should be looking to keep what is good in our pen, and jettison what is bad. Yet it seems that we want to get rid of our good closer, because of bad memories of past players. I don't know where this board gets it, but there isn't a chance in hell KW goes into a total rebuilding mode this offseason. Not with Konerko, Thome, Vazquez, Contreras, Garland and/or Buerhle on the roster. You want me to give you a name, how could I? I don't talk to GMs. What's BS is thinking Bobby Jenks is a lock to be good for a long time. I agree with you, he's one of the few guys in the bullpen that deserves a major league check. I stated that above. I also stated I wouldn't just trade him to get rid of him. It would depend on what I got back. And with his declining velocity and human being's natural tendency to gain weight as they get older, and the fact that there is a screw in his right elbow, I don't think the return on him is what anyone would be looking for. Vazquez is a mediocre starter IMO. I think he would be a great closer and I'm one of his biggest critics. But I realize it won't happen, as I have already stated. Let the season end, and let me see who's available, and I'll give you a couple of names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I have nothing against Jenks, but that 93 mph straight as an arrow fastball doesn't scare a lot of hitters. Unless he hits his spots perfectly, or close to, what happened tonight will happen a lot more. With that being said, I have been impressed with Jenks command this season and really surprised he has done this well. And if anyone said put Vazquez in as the closer, lmao, that is one of the worst ideas I have heard in a while. No offense, but that is horrible. Oh god, lol, yeah, lets pay a closer, who is a much better starter, 10-something million a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:46 PM) Who is going to close the games next year. Give me a name. Just saying, it needs to be blown up. Sure thats easy. Who is his replacement. If everything is getting blown up and rebuilt, there won't be many games to close out next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 12:39 AM) I have nothing against Jenks, but that 93 mph straight as an arrow fastball doesn't scare a lot of hitters. Unless he hits his spots perfectly, or close to, what happened tonight will happen a lot more. With that being said, I have been impressed with Jenks command this season and really surprised he has done this well. And if anyone said put Vazquez in as the closer, lmao, that is one of the worst ideas I have heard in a while. No offense, but that is horrible. Oh god, lol, yeah, lets pay a closer, who is a much better starter, 10-something million a year! If the Sox had someone from the minors making minimum taking his spot in the rotation, what difference would it be having someone making minimum starting and someone making $11.5 million closing or vice versa? Laugh all you want, Dennis Eckersley was a good starter until he became a mediocre one and look what happened to him. Vazquez was considered a good starter, have you seen the scouts' quotes on him? They think he's become mediocre. I think he would be great if he was programmed to go 1 inning. He throws too many types of pitches. Closers don't do that. Plus Vazquez is usually pretty good the first time through the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:46 PM) Who is going to close the games next year. Give me a name. Just saying, it needs to be blown up. Sure thats easy. Who is his replacement. It doesn't matter. We're gonna suck next year whichever way KW goes. If you completely retool (whicb I think we should do), go with kids, boom, we're gonna suck. Count on Pods, Erstadt, Terrero, Gonzalez, Uribe or his replacement, Richar, Thome another year older, our pen....we're gonna suck. Keeping Jenks on this club just makes them a better looking fourth place club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 07:09 AM) If the Sox had someone from the minors making minimum taking his spot in the rotation, what difference would it be having someone making minimum starting and someone making $11.5 million closing or vice versa? Laugh all you want, Dennis Eckersley was a good starter until he became a mediocre one and look what happened to him. Vazquez was considered a good starter, have you seen the scouts' quotes on him? They think he's become mediocre. I think he would be great if he was programmed to go 1 inning. He throws too many types of pitches. Closers don't do that. Plus Vazquez is usually pretty good the first time through the order. Vazquez has been very, very good this year. If he starts to decline one of these years then maybe the team starts discussing him as a reliever. But as of now, he's becoming a very nice starter for the White Sox, why would you want a guy on pace for over 200 innings and an era under 4 as a starter, in the bullpen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:20 PM) A better draft pick that KW can work his magic with!! That would be a money-desperate, easy-signable, soft tossing college startng pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 It's a tough question, but honestly I don't know if you can. Our bullpen is so fragile right now. You lose the most stable guy in there, how are you going to replace him? One of our own, or a free agent who would be more expensive than Jenks? Unless I got wowed by an offer, Jenks should stay IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilCan Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 How fast was Bobby's fastball last night? And can someone theorize how/why Bobby's fastball is in the low 90s when in 2005 it was consistently in the top 90s???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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