Come on Ozzie....

[SoxFan1]

You ass. And I was also editing my sentence and putting in another.

I try.

[Kyyle23]

Why couldnt Ozzie tell Parrish to throw Gooch a strike? What awful managing

 

[Mplssoxfan]

To who? If he had thrown 75 or 80 pitches maybe, but not after he got to 100 pitches through 6 after the last 2 outs of the 6 were deep flyouts. The fact we were up 8 and the game was over was just another reason why to get him out on a high note.

That's a good point but the staff has 3 (or is it 4? I can't remember if we play Thursday) days off after Sunday. They can throw an extra inning up 8 in the 7th inning to make sure the rookie leaves on a good note.

I think you contradicted yourself with this very post, my friend. Ozzie probably figured that Danks will have a little extra rest so let's let him throw over 100 pitches tonight -- an added benefit will be a little extra rest for the pen.

[Kyyle23]

I think you contradicted yourself with this very post, my friend. Ozzie probably figured that Danks will have a little extra rest so let's let him throw over 100 pitches tonight -- an added benefit will be a little extra rest for the pen.

 

which is sorely needed with a doubleheader tomorrow

[southsideirish71]

His line tonight means nothing in the long run for Danks. This is exactly what I wanted to see for a while with Ozzie, who has pulled Danks a lot quicker in a lot of situations. How would Danks perform deep in the game, when he is gassed. He learned more from tonights plus 100 pitch effort than he could of coming out with 6 innings, and only 2 runs. Executing when you nearly nothing left is what separates good pitchers from great ones. Hopefully he takes this as a learning experience, and I am sure Ozzie learned something as well about the limits of his rook.

 

There was nothing wrong with this kid pitching in the 7th inning.

[RME JICO]

I have no problem with him coming out to pitch the 7th, but he clearly needed to be pulled after the 2nd hit. His velocity was down and he was becoming very hittable. Hindsight is 20/20. If he goes out and pitches a 1-2-3, everyone is praising Ozzie for leaving him in. He had retired 11 straight before giving up the leadoff double to Huff, so with the DH tomorrow, no biggie.

[IlliniKrush]

I have no problem with him coming out to pitch the 7th, but he clearly needed to be pulled after the 2nd hit. His velocity was down and he was becoming very hittable. Hindsight is 20/20. If he goes out and pitches a 1-2-3, everyone is praising Ozzie for leaving him in. He had retired 11 straight before giving up the leadoff double to Huff, so with the DH tomorrow, no biggie.

I'd agree with this after 2 hits. He just seemed really out of gas at that point, I guess Ozzie really let him have a big leash with that big of a lead. Ah well.

[GreenSox]

He may have left him in a shade too long, but I can't seriously fault him. I don't think Guillen is much of a manager...his strategy is limited to lefty/righty (I doubt his staff provides him the info to make deeper decisions); he has zero interest in developing young talent, to the severe deteriment of the team; overall, he has assembled a weak staff with no one manager material in the future; and most of all, I disagree with his offensive philosophy of hack at everything.

 

But I can't get on him about this.

[BearSox]

Yeah, I am sure Danks hates the fact he had to go one more inning.

 

PUH-lease, let the kid pitch. His pitch count was obscenely high and he pitched well all day. Let the pitcher pitch, 2 run lead or 20 run lead.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...his strategy is limited to lefty/righty (I doubt his staff provides him the info to make deeper decisions); he has zero interest in developing young talent, to the severe deteriment of the team; overall, he has assembled a weak staff with no one manager material in the future; and most of all, I disagree with his offensive philosophy of hack at everything.

 

This is inaccurate to say the least.

 

He consistently preaches getting better at bats, but the players appear to be too stubborn.

 

Cora has interviewed for manager jobs and Razor Shines is regarded as a potential future manager.

 

As for young talent, he's given lots of rope to Danks, Masset, Fields, Uribe over the past few years, Logan, Owens is getting another chance, etc. etc.

 

Regarding staff providing him info, Mike Gellinger for one gives him tons of information, both in written form and video.

[michelangelosmonkey]

This is inaccurate to say the least.

 

He consistently preaches getting better at bats, but the players appear to be too stubborn.

 

Cora has interviewed for manager jobs and Razor Shines is regarded as a potential future manager.

 

As for young talent, he's given lots of rope to Danks, Masset, Fields, Uribe over the past few years, Logan, Owens is getting another chance, etc. etc.

 

Regarding staff providing him info, Mike Gellinger for one gives him tons of information, both in written form and video.

I think Ozzie also has a great sense of the marathon nature of the game. He'll defend Uribe's fielding after a crucial error because he knows it's not a game of perfection. He'll trot Aardsma out there for five disasters in a row in May because he sees the potential in the kid and he knows if he can turn it around he will be a key player for the rest of the year. He will stick with guys like Garland and Contreas and Vaquez through long slumps where we the fan would have traded them away for a bucket of balls. He'll let a guy like Danks pitch in the 8th with two runners on, while he's tiring, because he knows someday the kid will need to know how to do this and might as well do it with an 8 run lead. My biggest problem with Ozzie is...Brian Anderson, Jon Rauch, Brandon McCarthy...wtf happened???

[CanOfCorn]

My biggest problem with Ozzie is...Brian Anderson, Jon Rauch, Brandon McCarthy...wtf happened???

 

If you hustle, if you do the little things, if you don't have an ego the size of...well...Ozzie himself, if you go up to the plate aggressively, if you challenge hitters but get beat, Ozzie will take a liking to you. Grinder? Maybe. But, all he wants to see is someone who is improving. Remember at the end of last year, BA was hitting better, but Ozzie kept saying he was looking better. He doesn't care if you hit .220 or .280 as long as you don't look like a fool at the plate, because those will become hits eventually. When BA came back this year, he reverted to first half last year form and THAT'S what pissed Ozzie off.

 

Brandon, I think, was more of a Kenny Williams decision. But that's just a hunch.

[michelangelosmonkey]

If you hustle, if you do the little things, if you don't have an ego the size of...well...Ozzie himself, if you go up to the plate aggressively, if you challenge hitters but get beat, Ozzie will take a liking to you. Grinder? Maybe. But, all he wants to see is someone who is improving. Remember at the end of last year, BA was hitting better, but Ozzie kept saying he was looking better. He doesn't care if you hit .220 or .280 as long as you don't look like a fool at the plate, because those will become hits eventually. When BA came back this year, he reverted to first half last year form and THAT'S what pissed Ozzie off.

 

Brandon, I think, was more of a Kenny Williams decision. But that's just a hunch.

But Jon Rauch? He was just a kid...in the majors for the first time...and he did some fool thing and GONE. It's interesting. Clearly he's not Dusty Baker who doesn't want young guys. But if he meets a young guy with an ego? Dog house. Even more curious since Ozzie as a player was up and brash at 21

[29thandPoplar]

Having spent a lot of time in Tucson the one thing I can tell you about Rauch is he had a big league attitude and a low A ball work ethic. The top prospect thing went to his head, he had trouble with coaches and teammates.

 

Right or wrong, those types of guys tend to get less rope.

[CanOfCorn]

But Jon Rauch? He was just a kid...in the majors for the first time...and he did some fool thing and GONE. It's interesting. Clearly he's not Dusty Baker who doesn't want young guys. But if he meets a young guy with an ego? Dog house. Even more curious since Ozzie as a player was up and brash at 21

 

True, but Ozzie backed it up and was Rookie of the Year. I think if Rauch put up a sub-4 ERA or Anderson hit .280+ with about a .350 OBP, they would have gotten a lot more leash. But they didn't. Ozzie is a put up or shut up kinda guy. Always has been.

[Dick Allen]

True, but Ozzie backed it up and was Rookie of the Year. I think if Rauch put up a sub-4 ERA or Anderson hit .280+ with about a .350 OBP, they would have gotten a lot more leash. But they didn't. Ozzie is a put up or shut up kinda guy. Always has been.

Ozzie was ROY in 1985. That year he had virtually identical OBP and slugging pct. as Brian Anderson in 2006. So BA is a cocky SOB, but Ozzie backed it up?

[Chisoxfn]

Are you guys not thinking. I haven't read the entire thread but Ozzie was going to have to maximize what he could from his starter last night because he has a horrid pen and a double header coming up which will involve a guy making his White Sox debut in one of his games (and while I love Floyd you can't just pencil him in for 7 innings).

 

If there wasn't a double header tomorrow I'm going to say he would have been pulled in a normal case.

[supernuke]

But Jon Rauch? He was just a kid...in the majors for the first time...and he did some fool thing and GONE. It's interesting. Clearly he's not Dusty Baker who doesn't want young guys. But if he meets a young guy with an ego? Dog house. Even more curious since Ozzie as a player was up and brash at 21

 

 

I really don't think Ozzie has a problem with young guys who have an ego. I think his problem is with young guys with an ego that don't seem to respect the game. Ozzie may have a big ego but I think he has a bigger respect for the game.

Edited July 6, 2007 by supernuke

[Chisoxfn]

Having spent a lot of time in Tucson the one thing I can tell you about Rauch is he had a big league attitude and a low A ball work ethic. The top prospect thing went to his head, he had trouble with coaches and teammates.

 

Right or wrong, those types of guys tend to get less rope.

Rauch was a guy that was not liked by many. I won't get more in depth than that, but there were a lot of people celebrating when he left the org. I never heard anyone say a nice thing about Rauch the person.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Ozzie also has a great sense of the marathon nature of the game. He'll defend Uribe's fielding after a crucial error because he knows it's not a game of perfection. He'll trot Aardsma out there for five disasters in a row in May because he sees the potential in the kid and he knows if he can turn it around he will be a key player for the rest of the year. He will stick with guys like Garland and Contreas and Vaquez through long slumps where we the fan would have traded them away for a bucket of balls. He'll let a guy like Danks pitch in the 8th with two runners on, while he's tiring, because he knows someday the kid will need to know how to do this and might as well do it with an 8 run lead.

 

Very well stated, what you point out here is an oft misunderstood and ignored aspect of what a mgr. does.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Rauch was a guy that was not liked by many. I won't get more in depth than that, but there were a lot of people celebrating when he left the org. I never heard anyone say a nice thing about Rauch the person.

So, then, maybe this is another point in favor of Ozzie. Hard love for young players. Seems to me if you are in the Sox organization, you are 19 and you think the world is your spitoon...your coach can walk over hand you the rookie cards of Jon Rauch, Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy and say something to the effect "This is the White sox...fix your attitude or Ozzie will destroy you". The more I think about it the more I think signing Ozzie to a ten year extension would be great for the organization.

[CanOfCorn]

Ozzie was ROY in 1985. That year he had virtually identical OBP and slugging pct. as Brian Anderson in 2006. So BA is a cocky SOB, but Ozzie backed it up?

 

I'll grant you OBP, but slugging pct? Come ON...Ozzie was NEVER a 5-tool guy. He had defense and could slap the ball around a little bit, but he didn't have the 20-25 hr potential EVER that a guy like Brian Anderson has. Plus, as was stated earlier. Ozzie IS a cocky SOB, but he respects the game, I don't believe he thinks BA does.

[Mplssoxfan]

Ozzie was ROY in 1985. That year he had virtually identical OBP and slugging pct. as Brian Anderson in 2006. So BA is a cocky SOB, but Ozzie backed it up?

True, but the league average OBP in 1985 was 12 points lower than 2006 and the average SLP was 31 points lower in 1985. So the "same" states aren't really the same. Not to mention the relative defensive values, and the fact that, even though the voters are wrong sometimes, no one in their right mind would have considered BA for any award.

 

Edit: BA was three years older in 2007 as well.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Mplssoxfan