Official Recruiting Thread II

[nitetrain8601]

Shumpert FINALLY admitted he dropped Illinois today, saying his final 3 are Georgia Tech, Marquette, and North Carolina. As soon as he also admits the obvious and says he's going to UNC, the better. It's one thing to play the game, it's another to play people for fools. Also, Bruce Weber, signing day for '08 is only 3 months away, do you know where your recruiting class is? Or where ANY verbals are? What an idiot.

 

I wonder when Illinois is going to decide to can the guy. He's a great X & O coach, but he's absolutely horrific as a recruiter.

[ZoomSlowik]

I wonder when Illinois is going to decide to can the guy. He's a great X & O coach, but he's absolutely horrific as a recruiter.

 

I would guess he has AT LEAST two more years of leeway after that Final Four run. Remember how long they let Ron Turner hang around?

 

I got nothing against Weber, but you'd think eventually by default he'd start actually signing a few of these guys...

[RockRaines]

I would guess he has AT LEAST two more years of leeway after that Final Four run. Remember how long they let Ron Turner hang around?

 

I got nothing against Weber, but you'd think eventually by default he'd start actually signing a few of these guys...

Maybe he would have a better team if he recruits more system guys and less blue chips.............

[ZoomSlowik]

Maybe he would have a better team if he recruits more system guys and less blue chips.............

 

Well, people gripe if all he brings in is lower rated guys that might be fringe top-100 types, and people gripe if he tries to get the top recruits and misses. Personally I don't really care as long as he succeeds, and last year was the first time it had an impact on their record.

 

I'm not ready to throw him under the bus quite yet, so far he's had one "bad" year, though it was marked by quite a few off the court incidents as well. The team isn't totally devoid of talent, so there is a chance to rebound. If he strings together a few more like last year though, you have to start wondering.

[thedoctor]

Well, people gripe if all he brings in is lower rated guys that might be fringe top-100 types, and people gripe if he tries to get the top recruits and misses. Personally I don't really care as long as he succeeds, and last year was the first time it had an impact on their record.

 

I'm not ready to throw him under the bus quite yet, so far he's had one "bad" year, though it was marked by quite a few off the court incidents as well. The team isn't totally devoid of talent, so there is a chance to rebound. If he strings together a few more like last year though, you have to start wondering.

 

agreed. anyone talking about an imminent firing isn't clear with the way ron guenther operates. if anything, the off court issues probably would push him closer to a firing than recruiting misses would. only time will tell whether those issues were isolated or evidence of a prgram that's out of control. at this point i'd tend to think the latter, although as an alumni i'm embarrassed by what's transpired off the court in the last year.

 

in terms of the recruiting, it is no surprise that shumpert eliminated illinois. i've been fairly critical of weber's recruiting, but on this one i am not sure that he is totally to blame. from what i have heard, shumpert had a personality conflict with one or more members of the existing roster. this played into the decision. either way, i expect he'll choose unc, because it's clear that he's a big fan of the acc.

 

as for illinois, whoever is to blame it's increasingly frustrating to see our top targets go elsewhere. now we are down to two targets who we are reportedly in good shape with right now. that said, we've been in good shape with plenty of recruits, it's closing that's been the issue and that is on weber. now, i don't think not landing these two kids would be disastrous in terms of the program because the 2008 class is weak and there really aren't any program changers out there. that said, this team badly needs a nice recruiting victory for perception's sake. that stuff matters to kids and future recruits and if kids see recruit after recruit spurning the program they're going to think something is amiss whether or not it really is.

 

edit: apologies for the poorly written run-on sentences.

Edited August 9, 2007 by thedoctor

[Jimbo's Drinker]

agreed. anyone talking about an imminent firing isn't clear with the way ron guenther operates. if anything, the off court issues probably would push him closer to a firing than recruiting misses would. only time will tell whether those issues were isolated or evidence of a prgram that's out of control. at this point i'd tend to think the latter, although as an alumni i'm embarrassed by what's transpired off the court in the last year.

 

in terms of the recruiting, it is no surprise that shumpert eliminated illinois. i've been fairly critical of weber's recruiting, but on this one i am not sure that he is totally to blame. from what i have heard, shumpert had a personality conflict with one or more members of the existing roster. this played into the decision. either way, i expect he'll choose unc, because it's clear that he's a big fan of the acc.

 

as for illinois, whoever is to blame it's increasingly frustrating to see our top targets go elsewhere. now we are down to two targets who we are reportedly in good shape with right now. that said, we've been in good shape with plenty of recruits, it's closing that's been the issue and that is on weber. now, i don't think not landing these two kids would be disastrous in terms of the program because the 2008 class is weak and there really aren't any program changers out there. that said, this team badly needs a nice recruiting victory for perception's sake. that stuff matters to kids and future recruits and if kids see recruit after recruit spurning the program they're going to think something is amiss whether or not it really is.

 

edit: apologies for the poorly written run-on sentences.

 

 

Jeebus what a messy post.

 

Just say this:

 

WEBER CANT RECRUIT

 

[thedoctor]

Jeebus what a messy post.

 

Just say this:

 

WEBER CANT RECRUIT

 

i'd take you seriously if you ever posted anything remotely intelligible.

[Buehrle>Wood]

agreed. anyone talking about an imminent firing isn't clear with the way the entire college sports world works.

Fixed.

 

 

I still don't know what is so hard to understand about this, but you don't fire a guy over recruiting. Period.

 

 

Until Weber loses somewhere below 20 games, maybe you can start the question is job. But anything until then is absolutely idiotic.

[Jenksismyhero]

Fixed.

I still don't know what is so hard to understand about this, but you don't fire a guy over recruiting. Period.

Until Weber loses somewhere below 20 games, maybe you can start the question is job. But anything until then is absolutely idiotic.

 

I'd agree with this if we were talking about professional sports because a single free agent pick up could alter the course of a season. But in sports where recruiting is the key to putting good talent on the court/field, there is no mid-season replacement that could save a program. Ron Turner is a perfect example. He has a big year in football, getting the Illini to a BCS bowl. He's the darling of Champaign. Two years later we're back in the basement of the big ten and not just losing games, but recruiting high school junior varsity players to lose those games. Turner f*cked over the Illini program for 6 years because of his lack of recruiting skills.

 

With Weber I'm torn. I like the guy a lot and think he's a great X's and O's coach. You don't take a team, regardless of the level of talent, to a 37-2 run, one of the greatest teams ever, and not be good at what you do. Nor do I fault the guy for a lot of the recruiting woes. The first year or two expectations were too high. You can't sign a player like julian wright or sherron collins when you pick up and dial the phone and talk to the recruits for the first time 3-4 months before the signing period begins. He jumped up to a different level of recruiting from SIU and had to establish relationships. Heck, coaches now are getting verbals from freshman in high school (weber included). That's insane. It shows you how early you have to start on these relationships.

 

Nor can you fault the guy for not bringing in a guy like Scheyer who has been in love and recruited by dook since he was little. And last year he gets arguably the number one player in the nation (and probably the second best in rose) if the unnamed douche hadn't reneged on his verbal COMMITMENT (no hard feelings there right?). Without that guy taking back his word these discussions don't happen.

 

All that said, I am concerned about the 08 class. Bring in Suggs, Miller, etc and I think we're fine, but if he can't close the deal this year and next then I'll be right there with the rest of you waiving my hand as he strolls out of Assembly Hall for the last time.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'd agree with this if we were talking about professional sports because a single free agent pick up could alter the course of a season. But in sports where recruiting is the key to putting good talent on the court/field, there is no mid-season replacement that could save a program. Ron Turner is a perfect example. He has a big year in football, getting the Illini to a BCS bowl. He's the darling of Champaign. Two years later we're back in the basement of the big ten and not just losing games, but recruiting high school junior varsity players to lose those games. Turner f*cked over the Illini program for 6 years because of his lack of recruiting skills.

 

Well, with Turner you have a guy that isn't a great recruiter AND isn't exactly an elite X's and O's guy either. That one year where they went to the Sugar Bowl the playbook was basically run it up the gut or throw it up top to Brandon Lloyd and Walter Young, not exactly revolutionary game-planning.

 

I'm not as worried about the recruiting rankings as if he can find guys that can be productive in his system. You don't necessarily need the Eric Gordon's or Derrick Rose's of the world to be successful, though obviously they help. All you have to do is look at Wisconsin, they've rarely been a major player in recruiting, and they still have a successful program with some deep tournament runs. He just needs to find guys that fit his system and try to snag a 4-star type here and there and he should be fine.

[Purdue129]

Lewis Jackson to Purdue

 

 

 

This should help w/Zeller as well.

[thedoctor]

I'd agree with this if we were talking about professional sports because a single free agent pick up could alter the course of a season. But in sports where recruiting is the key to putting good talent on the court/field, there is no mid-season replacement that could save a program. Ron Turner is a perfect example. He has a big year in football, getting the Illini to a BCS bowl. He's the darling of Champaign. Two years later we're back in the basement of the big ten and not just losing games, but recruiting high school junior varsity players to lose those games. Turner f*cked over the Illini program for 6 years because of his lack of recruiting skills.

 

With Weber I'm torn. I like the guy a lot and think he's a great X's and O's coach. You don't take a team, regardless of the level of talent, to a 37-2 run, one of the greatest teams ever, and not be good at what you do. Nor do I fault the guy for a lot of the recruiting woes. The first year or two expectations were too high. You can't sign a player like julian wright or sherron collins when you pick up and dial the phone and talk to the recruits for the first time 3-4 months before the signing period begins. He jumped up to a different level of recruiting from SIU and had to establish relationships. Heck, coaches now are getting verbals from freshman in high school (weber included). That's insane. It shows you how early you have to start on these relationships.

 

Nor can you fault the guy for not bringing in a guy like Scheyer who has been in love and recruited by dook since he was little. And last year he gets arguably the number one player in the nation (and probably the second best in rose) if the unnamed douche hadn't reneged on his verbal COMMITMENT (no hard feelings there right?). Without that guy taking back his word these discussions don't happen.

 

All that said, I am concerned about the 08 class. Bring in Suggs, Miller, etc and I think we're fine, but if he can't close the deal this year and next then I'll be right there with the rest of you waiving my hand as he strolls out of Assembly Hall for the last time.

 

i think all of those points are valid and well thought out. with that said, in every recruitment there are plenty of reasons a coach will not succeed, yet many coaches are able to overcome those. taken separately, you can accept the explanation in each of those circumstances because as i said there is validity to each of those examples. but taken as a group, it's a bit hard to swallow a continuous line of excuses. there are many more reasons for a recruit to choose illinois than not, yet this message is somehow not making its way to recruits in an effective manner. that is on weber, because he is ultimately accountable for everything happening within the program.

 

but i do agree that i don't see weber's job as remotely on the line yet. it will take a precipitous drop-off in wins for that to occur, and honestly i don't see that happening this year. it is typical message-board generated nonsense with no basis in reality. every board eventually falls into factions of people who line up to support their particular view of what a team needs to do to succeed. for bears fans it's the grossman debate, for sox fans it's the yearly debate over the moves management is making (among others), for bulls fans it's the debate over whether to let the core mature or trade guys for a big-name player who could put the organization over the top.

 

it happens on every single board i've ever seen. oftentimes it gives those posting on boards an unrealistic perception of what is actually happening. the joe average illini fan probably doesn't spend tons of time on message boards following every little recruiting development. thus, he may be vaguely aware that weber is having recruiting issues, but is he thinking the coach should be fired? unlikely. same with guenther. i can just about guarantee he pays little or not attention to what is posted on the internet. hell, he didn't even know who greg doyel was, when the great majority of illinois fan board posters thought the guy was the devil incarnate.

 

[thedoctor]

scott suggs may announce monday

 

not a lot of encouraging smoke around this one for illinois fans. big surprise.

[whitesoxfan101]

scott suggs may announce monday

 

not a lot of encouraging smoke around this one for illinois fans. big surprise.

 

That would be an impressive failure, even for Bruce, to lose Suggs. He was all but a lock for several months. What a disaster this class is turning out to be, Bruce is going to end up begging people to back out of their verbals to D2 schools to come to Illinois.

[Buehrle>Wood]

scott suggs may announce monday

 

not a lot of encouraging smoke around this one for illinois fans. big surprise.

And you get that vibe because...

[CWSGuy406]

Any updates on Shumpert? I'm really hoping Marquette can land him -- I think he'd be the first five star recruit that Crean has been able to pull in. Plus, Crean has really put in his due dilligence with Shumpert.

[thedoctor]

And you get that vibe because...

 

i'm not wild about the report stemming from a washington-area news source. people have always said that romar and suggs have developed a really great relationship, and that has worried me throughout this recruitment. i know the huskies seem overbooked at this point, but teams have a way of finding a way around that when need be.

 

i will say i have no knowledge of this situation other than my own instincts and my skeptical view of our current recruiting abilities. in that regard, using the word smoke was probably overstatement.

[Rowand44]

Suggs will commit to Illinois.

[CanOfCorn]

Suggs will commit to Illinois.

 

Is there a source or is that your gut opinion?

[Rowand44]

Is there a source or is that your gut opinion?

You'll just have to trust me on this one.

[maggsmaggs]

You'll just have to trust me on this one.

I hope your right, you know when he may committ? Also, there has been talk about Darius Miller being an Illini lean and talk that he wants to committ to UI, but his dad wants him to wait. This was from a Kentucky forum. If Weber could get those two, it would be a great class, but still you gotta wonder why he can't get the instate players.

[Rowand44]

I hope your right, you know when he may committ? Also, there has been talk about Darius Miller being an Illini lean and talk that he wants to committ to UI, but his dad wants him to wait. This was from a Kentucky forum. If Weber could get those two, it would be a great class, but still you gotta wonder why he can't get the instate players.

Not sure. Looks like Illinois will get Miller and Suggs and I swear I'm not just blowing smoke here, guys. Obviously things could change but right now it's looking good on those two as far as the Illini are concerned.

 

And Keith, looking good on Shumpert.

[whitesoxfan101]

Rowand wouldn't blow smoke guys, so I'd trust him. I'm not sure what he knows about Miller, but apparently Suggs to UW is out of the question because Washington doesn't have a scholly for him. If that's true, I think Illinois has Suggs because Mizzou isn't going to swoop in and get him. I just hope Illinois gets Suggs, he's been an Illini lean for almost a year now and he's a really good player. If they get Suggs and Miller, I owe Bruce Weber a big time apology, but we'll see.

 

And CWSGUY, it's down to Marquette and UNC for Shumpert apparently. Shumpert is loving the idea of playing at somewhere like UNC, but he seems to favor Marquette right now since Crean was one of the very first high major coaches to go after him. You guys have a pretty good shot.

Edited August 14, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Buehrle>Wood]

So out of left field, Illinois picked up a recruit today...for the 07 class.

 

 

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/recruitingi...s_illinois.html

 

 

[CanOfCorn]

What's the word on Verdell Jones? Still leaning towards Kansas? Anyone know?