Official Recruiting Thread II

[Jenksismyhero]

So if a kid commits to SIU, blows up his senior year and ILL offers him its dirty? I understand it hurts to lose a good player but its clearly not dirty. The defending champs called, offered, and he accepted.

 

A week before signing day? Yes. Absolutely. Especially if they had already gotten a commitment from the kid but forced him to decommit by signing other players at that position.

 

Honestly i'm surprised Snider is ok going back to Louisville. The message was - hey we want you. Then, hey we have this better PG that committed but we still want you. Then he decommits and they don't call him or try to change his mind. Then when the higher ranked PG also decommits, at the last minute its hey we want you again.

 

You're the plan B. You're the "oh s*** we gotta cover our ass here" recruit. If I had the choice between that or being THE guy and wanted all the way, i'm going with that option.

[illinilaw08]

Exactly. When he decommited from Louisville originally he still had an offer. It was his choice. He just didn't want to be behind Lyle it seemed. He should have reopened his recruitment immediately when Lyle left.

 

Should Snider have told Groce earlier? Absolutely. Would it have mattered? No. Illinois doesn't miss out on any other targets as a result of Snider flipping on Signing Day (unlike the Gordon situation where he was committed for years).

 

I'm not going to kill Snider for changing his mind. It sucks that he's not going to Illinois. He's a 17 year old kid that changed his mind.

 

In an ideal world, coaches wouldn't mess with kids who were already committed. But that's not the world of recruiting (note that I also think in an ideal world, coaches wouldn't pull offers from kids either - idealism!).

[RockRaines]

Pitino in the past has b****ed about poaching kids and how he would never do it BULLs***!

Technically Snider was poached then came back....

[bigruss]

Technically Snider was poached then came back....

Snider wasn't being recruited by any other schools until he decommitted.

[southsider2k5]

whose to say who did that though? Forcing commitments early or while on visits is just as forceful as last minute flips. Until signing day its all so fluid.

 

Seriously. When you have recruiting and commitments from 14 year olds, it is just ripe for problems.

[Boogua]

Technically Snider was poached then came back....

Huh? Maybe you should research the recruitment before making comments...

[RockRaines]

A week before signing day? Yes. Absolutely. Especially if they had already gotten a commitment from the kid but forced him to decommit by signing other players at that position.

I dont get that. If you lost Snider today and then offered a plan B that is only committed to lets say Western Michigan, I dont see that as dirty at all. Especially since this is the EARLY signing period. Kids have MONTHS to decide where they are going.

[LittleHurt05]

If a stud decommits from another program to go to yours, it's cool, no problem. If he decommits from your program to go to another, he is scum, his family is scum, the school he is going to is scum. It's pretty much standard for fans of all programs.

 

We all have to keep in mind these are 17-18 year old kids making decisions and they have influences pulling them in every direction.

 

Exactly. I changed my college choice about 3-4 times, and I doubt any engineering departments were holding their breath the way entire college fanbases are for these kids.

 

Until he signs that letter, he isn't officially committed and might change his mind. It sucks for the school, but that's just how it is.

[RockRaines]

Snider wasn't being recruited by any other schools until he decommitted.

So you are telling me no other schools had made a single call to him at all during that time?

 

He had 8 offers. Did those all come before his soph year and after he said he was opening up?

[Buehrle>Wood]

So you are telling me no other schools had made a single call to him at all during that time?

 

He had 8 offers. Did those all come before his soph year and after he said he was opening up?

Not from Illinois. So no, he wasn't poached.

[Soxfest]

Technically Snider was poached then came back....

Not true.

[RockRaines]

Not from Illinois. So no, he wasn't poached.

Fair enough, but he was still being recruited like every other kid while committed. If there is a top kid somewhere, coaches are calling him. I'm betting ILL didnt come out of the blue, I bet they'd had contact in the background since his soph year when he first committed.

[bigruss]

Fair enough, but he was still being recruited like every other kid while committed. If there is a top kid somewhere, coaches are calling him. I'm betting ILL didnt come out of the blue, I bet they'd had contact in the background since his soph year when he first committed.

Not really, Illinois wasn't on his radar until his coach told his dad to check out some film of theirs. They barely listed Illinois as a school that reached out when re reopened, they were pretty much focused on Indiana at first.

[RockRaines]

Not really, Illinois wasn't on his radar until his coach told his dad to check out some film of theirs. They barely listed Illinois as a school that reached out when re reopened, they were pretty much focused on Indiana at first.

So ILL was in contact with his coach? Where did he get the film?

 

I understand the upset, but to think committed kids arent on team's radars is ridiculous. Recruiting is crazy and fluid, and coaches continue to text and speak with kids no matter when or where they've verballed. You never know when a teenage kid will change his mind, a coach will leave or anything of the sort. So you want to make sure you still have that connection. Clearly LOU kept in touch.

Edited November 15, 2013 by RockRaines

[SleepyWhiteSox]

So ILL was in contact with his dad? Where did he get the film?

 

I understand the upset, but to think committed kids arent on team's radars is ridiculous. Recruiting is crazy and fluid, and coaches continue to text and speak with kids no matter when or where they've verballed. You never know when a teenage kid will change his mind, a coach will leave or anything of the sort. So you want to make sure you still have that connection. Clearly LOU kept in touch.

 

C'mon now, rock! illinois is squeaky clean and ONLY does things in the most proper, respectful manner!!!

[Jenksismyhero]

Exactly. I changed my college choice about 3-4 times, and I doubt any engineering departments were holding their breath the way entire college fanbases are for these kids.

 

Until he signs that letter, he isn't officially committed and might change his mind. It sucks for the school, but that's just how it is.

 

We've heard enough b****ing from coaches about this over the years that it's clear there used to be an unwritten rule in basketball recruiting that once a kid gives a school a verbal commitment everyone else should lay off. And i'm sure the major reason for that is that you've "won" and you can then recruit in other areas without having to worry about a decommit. Your attention can be focused elsewhere. You don't have to travel to attend every home game of a committed recruit. If HE initiates more recruiting and if HE opens his recruitment back up, that's fine. But if he doesn't, it's bush league to keep recruiting a kid hard, especially the day or days before he's about to sign his LOI.

 

Think about it in terms of dating. You're dating a girl and you know she's also dating around. At some point she tells you she wants to be exclusive. There's no ring on her finger. You aren't technically married. Yet you have this other guy that keeps texting her and trying to steal her away. There's no unwritten rule that that guy is being a dick and should lay off? You just accept that until she's signed the license she's available to anyone and you can't say anything about it? Come on.

[bigruss]

So ILL was in contact with his coach? Where did he get the film?

 

I understand the upset, but to think committed kids arent on team's radars is ridiculous. Recruiting is crazy and fluid, and coaches continue to text and speak with kids no matter when or where they've verballed. You never know when a teenage kid will change his mind, a coach will leave or anything of the sort. So you want to make sure you still have that connection. Clearly LOU kept in touch.

This reportedly was after they initially contacted him when he reopened.

 

I have no idea if they contacted him beforehand, but I'm not going to speculate that they did when there is nothing remotely showing that they did.

 

This is all internet rumor, but apparently Pitino reached out to QS' dad this week and he was still interested in hearing them out which got the ball rolling. His dad was initially quoted as being very receptive to LOU re-recruiting him initially, and is a big time LOU fan.

[RockRaines]

C'mon now, rock! illinois is squeaky clean and ONLY does things in the most proper, respectful manner!!!

I dont consider keeping in touch with a kid who has verbally committed dirty anyway. What if Calapari went to the NBA? I would hope my assistant coaches already have relationships with his recruits.

 

Recruits dont pick schools, they pick coaching staffs and the coaches they are closest and most comfortable with. That trust takes time and hundreds of texts, calls etc. Thats what recruiting is, its not one head coach calling a kid and offering and he magically says yes to you and sticks by during his entire recruitment. Coaches who try and recruit that way will find themselves out of a job very quickly.

[Jenksismyhero]

So ILL was in contact with his coach? Where did he get the film?

 

I understand the upset, but to think committed kids arent on team's radars is ridiculous. Recruiting is crazy and fluid, and coaches continue to text and speak with kids no matter when or where they've verballed. You never know when a teenage kid will change his mind, a coach will leave or anything of the sort. So you want to make sure you still have that connection. Clearly LOU kept in touch.

 

It's been on record from Snider and his folks that Louisville completely ignored him at the time he decided to decommit and didn't try to stop him. Reports are basically that within the last week Louisville made contact again for the first time. This isn't the situation where the recruit is wavering and another program who has kept ties with him to stay on the radar eventually gets a second look.

[bigruss]

C'mon now, rock! illinois is squeaky clean and ONLY does things in the most proper, respectful manner!!!

Illinois football vulture story just last year?

 

I know our programs aren't squeaky clean, I'm sure there are boosters trying to do whatever they can to get Cliff committed. I'm sure the staff is also not afraid to reevaluate a kid's position on the team if they recruited a better player.

 

I just don't see anything wrong with Illinois in this particular scenario.

[LittleHurt05]

We've heard enough b****ing from coaches about this over the years that it's clear there used to be an unwritten rule in basketball recruiting that once a kid gives a school a verbal commitment everyone else should lay off. And i'm sure the major reason for that is that you've "won" and you can then recruit in other areas without having to worry about a decommit. Your attention can be focused elsewhere. You don't have to travel to attend every home game of a committed recruit. If HE initiates more recruiting and if HE opens his recruitment back up, that's fine. But if he doesn't, it's bush league to keep recruiting a kid hard, especially the day or days before he's about to sign his LOI.

 

Think about it in terms of dating. You're dating a girl and you know she's also dating around. At some point she tells you she wants to be exclusive. There's no ring on her finger. You aren't technically married. Yet you have this other guy that keeps texting her and trying to steal her away. There's no unwritten rule that that guy is being a dick and should lay off? You just accept that until she's signed the license she's available to anyone and you can't say anything about it? Come on.

 

I can agree that it's s***ty when coaches keep going after kids that are supposed to be committed already. They are the ones with the most power to keep the game clean and they obviously don't.

 

I just can't get mad at the kid himself. There's a whirlwind going on around him with everything, and I can see how a mind gets changed at the last second, it's a big decision.

[RockRaines]

We've heard enough b****ing from coaches about this over the years that it's clear there used to be an unwritten rule in basketball recruiting that once a kid gives a school a verbal commitment everyone else should lay off. And i'm sure the major reason for that is that you've "won" and you can then recruit in other areas without having to worry about a decommit. Your attention can be focused elsewhere. You don't have to travel to attend every home game of a committed recruit. If HE initiates more recruiting and if HE opens his recruitment back up, that's fine. But if he doesn't, it's bush league to keep recruiting a kid hard, especially the day or days before he's about to sign his LOI.

 

Think about it in terms of dating. You're dating a girl and you know she's also dating around. At some point she tells you she wants to be exclusive. There's no ring on her finger. You aren't technically married. Yet you have this other guy that keeps texting her and trying to steal her away. There's no unwritten rule that that guy is being a dick and should lay off? You just accept that until she's signed the license she's available to anyone and you can't say anything about it? Come on.

Bolded the most important part of your post. Its not like that anymore. With nationally televised decisions and multiple recruit ranking websites the game has changed. Until someone signs their LOI its free game. And recruits particularly HATE when coaches completely back off once they've committed. "Now since I said I was coming there you dont care about me or come to any of my games? Coach X says I will always be important to him, now im thinking about flipping."

[RockRaines]

It's been on record from Snider and his folks that Louisville completely ignored him at the time he decided to decommit and didn't try to stop him. Reports are basically that within the last week Louisville made contact again for the first time. This isn't the situation where the recruit is wavering and another program who has kept ties with him to stay on the radar eventually gets a second look.

It's a good thing they had his coach to show him game tape of Illinois basketball. Relationships with coaches for that kid and future kids is pretty important as well in recruiting.

[bigruss]

Bolded the most important part of your post. Its not like that anymore. With nationally televised decisions and multiple recruit ranking websites the game has changed. Until someone signs their LOI its free game. And recruits particularly HATE when coaches completely back off once they've committed. "Now since I said I was coming there you dont care about me or come to any of my games? Coach X says I will always be important to him, now im thinking about flipping."

FYI, Snider's coach said that Illinois didn't do anything wrong in this recruitment, implying that they kept in good contact and had a good relationship still with Snider, but LOU was his dream school still.

[RockRaines]

FYI, Snider's coach said that Illinois didn't do anything wrong in this recruitment, implying that they kept in good contact and had a good relationship still with Snider, but LOU was his dream school still.

Right, I dont think either school did anything wrong here whatsoever.