Official Recruiting Thread II

[bigruss]

He's recruiting like Bruce Weber at the end with similar issues with balance. I believe we should expect better than that.

Lolz, look at what he had to start with, this was a major rebuild for any coach coming in, whether it was Smart, Stevens or Groce.

[Jenksismyhero]

Leron Black was a pretty big get.

 

There's also no way this is a 5 year rebuild unless Groce strikes out on every PG in the next few years and Tate is the only PG on the roster. The team next year will be a tournament team. If not, a rebuild will likely be happening under someone other than Groce.

 

With Snider de-committing and better programs offering Brunson, I'd say expect to strike out on decent PG's for the next 2 seasons. Tate will be the starting PG in 2015-2016 unless he goes with a combo guard instead. And he's most likely going to strike out with with the two top center recruits (Stone and Thomas), so there may be a hole there as well unless Morgan really takes a leap.

 

I guess there is always the transfer route, and he's been good at that so far.

[bigruss]

How does missing out on a wing, on a team loaded with wings, prompt a response like this?

 

In his first year he recruited every position. He was a last second change of heart from recruiting his impact PG in 2014 as well as 2 bigs that fit different roles. He's already recruited one of the better shooters in the state for 2015 and has gotten a top 50 player from Simeon. Complaining that the guy has missed out on Cliff Alexander and Charles Matthews to KU and UK is a bit nuts. Especially considering the dumpster fire he inherited.

Exactly, and they are recruiting a ton of guys they would love to play PG for them in the 2015 class. If they miss out on every single one of those guys, then I would be disappointed.

[bigruss]

With Snider de-committing and better programs offering Brunson, I'd say expect to strike out on decent PG's for the next 2 seasons. Tate will be the starting PG in 2015-2016 unless he goes with a combo guard instead. And he's most likely going to strike out with with the two top center recruits (Stone and Thomas), so there may be a hole there as well unless Morgan really takes a leap.

 

I guess there is always the transfer route, and he's been good at that so far.

Stone was a long shot anyways, getting a guy like Thomas or Sharma is a more reasonable yet lofty expectation.

[Buehrle>Wood]

How does missing out on a wing, on a team loaded with wings, prompt a response like this?

 

In his first year he recruited every position. He was a last second change of heart from recruiting his impact PG in 2014 as well as 2 bigs that fit different roles. He's already recruited one of the better shooters in the state for 2015 and has gotten a top 50 player from Simeon. Complaining that the guy has missed out on Cliff Alexander and Charles Matthews to KU and UK is a bit nuts. Especially considering the dumpster fire he inherited.

What do you mean? Matthews is a higher level guy that we still aren't landing. We are also allergic to PGs, still, and I don't think that changes barring a miracle turnaround with Brunson. I think the response is straight forward. We brought him in to recruit at a higher level then what we had been seeing here. He hasn't done that yet. Hope he turns it around.

[Buehrle>Wood]

How does missing out on a wing, on a team loaded with wings, prompt a response like this?

 

In his first year he recruited every position. He was a last second change of heart from recruiting his impact PG in 2014 as well as 2 bigs that fit different roles. He's already recruited one of the better shooters in the state for 2015 and has gotten a top 50 player from Simeon. Complaining that the guy has missed out on Cliff Alexander and Charles Matthews to KU and UK is a bit nuts. Especially considering the dumpster fire he inherited.

What do you mean? Matthews is a higher level guy that we still aren't landing. We are also allergic to PGs, still, and I don't think that changes barring a miracle turnaround with Brunson. I think the response is straight forward. We brought him in to recruit at a higher level then what we had been seeing here. He hasn't done that yet. Hope he turns it around.

[Jenksismyhero]

Exactly, and they are recruiting a ton of guys they would love to play PG for them in the 2015 class. If they miss out on every single one of those guys, then I would be disappointed.

 

Who's the PG they are recruiting after Brunson? I see at Scout they have Jawun Evans listed, some dude from South Carolina. Doubt that's a legit possibility. It's basically Brunson or bust in 2015 from what I understand.

[bigruss]

Who's the PG they are recruiting after Brunson? I see at Scout they have Jawun Evans listed, some dude from South Carolina. Doubt that's a legit possibility. It's basically Brunson or bust in 2015 from what I understand.

Evans plays in Texas I believe, they've been recruiting him pretty hard from what I've read. Coleman and Eric Davis as well, both hard gets but the fit the combo guard that Groce needs. Pipkins could be a option if he proves himself this summer in AAU play.

[Boogua]

What do you mean? Matthews is a higher level guy that we still aren't landing. We are also allergic to PGs, still, and I don't think that changes barring a miracle turnaround with Brunson. I think the response is straight forward. We brought him in to recruit at a higher level then what we had been seeing here. He hasn't done that yet. Hope he turns it around.

Isn't a bit early to say this? Are you just basing this off of recruiting rankings? If so, the Weber classes of 2009, 2010, and 2011 were pretty good on paper, but ended up being trash for the most part.

 

Nunn looks legit, Tate looks like he'll be serviceable, Hill looks good, and we have no clue if Black can be an instant impact guy. He's also recruited transfers that should help the program immediately. The guy is in his second season.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Isn't a bit early to say this? Are you just basing this off of recruiting rankings? If so, the Weber classes of 2009, 2010, and 2011 were pretty good on paper, but ended up being trash for the most part.

 

Nunn looks legit, Tate looks like he'll be serviceable, Hill looks good, and we have no clue if Black can be an instant impact guy. He's also recruited transfers that should help the program immediately. The guy is in his second season.

I agree it's early. I'm not saying fire him or anything, just hope it gets better than what we've seen or else we can run into problems similar to Weber very easily.

[southsider2k5]

So Groce can go ahead and become that supposed elite recruiter he is any day now please

 

I know Illinois fans don't want to hear this, but getting into players top 5's is step one. Unless you are crooked as hell, you aren't going to star pulling five star classes out of no where at Illinois. It isn't like a UNC or Kentucky where the name sells the place. It is a process. Just having guys talk about UofI is a good start. If he keeps it up, eventually that first big domino will fall, and kids will start to follow.

[Jenksismyhero]

I know Illinois fans don't want to hear this, but getting into players top 5's is step one. Unless you are crooked as hell, you aren't going to star pulling five star classes out of no where at Illinois. It isn't like a UNC or Kentucky where the name sells the place. It is a process. Just having guys talk about UofI is a good start. If he keeps it up, eventually that first big domino will fall, and kids will start to follow.

 

Really though, with the amount of high level recruits that come out of Illinois/Chicago, it shouldn't be difficult at all to get into the top 5 for a lot of these players. Like DePaul, they should almost by default be in the top 5 as the "home town" school. And they have been, even under Weber. But at the end of the day you gotta land one.

 

Part of the problem here is that people expect the Cook/Conley/Oden class Groce had in year 2 at OSU. It probably helped that OSU also happened to win the big ten championship and made the tournament in year 2.

[southsider2k5]

Really though, with the amount of high level recruits that come out of Illinois/Chicago, it shouldn't be difficult at all to get into the top 5 for a lot of these players. Like DePaul, they should almost by default be in the top 5 as the "home town" school. And they have been, even under Weber. But at the end of the day you gotta land one.

 

Part of the problem here is that people expect the Cook/Conley/Oden class Groce had in year 2 at OSU. It probably helped that OSU also happened to win the big ten championship and made the tournament in year 2.

 

It has always amazed me that not a single Chicago school has been able to be a decent program since like the 80's. So much talent is there, and no one has been able to capitalize on it.

[whitesoxfan99]

He's recruiting like Bruce Weber at the end with similar issues with balance. I believe we should expect better than that.

 

Sort of. The PG position is obviously a glaring issue but he has also done a good job bringing in good transfers to fill holes in the roster. We will also need to see what his player evaluation looks like since if you aren't landing top 25 players that matters a ton. Weber and his staff's talent evaluation at Illinois was really poor. The one thing that I really like about Groce's talent evaluation so far is he clearly really values players that can shoot and handle the ball. A good example was taking Michael Orris who isn't even a good athlete and couldn't shoot at all while not recruiting Van Vleet. That never made any sense and I know a ton of people who thought that was a remarkably stupid decision at the time. Now in fairness to Weber Van Vleet wasn't that highly regarded either but always take the kid who can shoot over the one who can't in that situation. Since Self's players graduated we have simply had far too few players that could make shots and were good ball handlers.

 

Edited February 26, 2014 by whitesoxfan99

[Brian]

The real question is if SIU can get Dominique Matthews.

[RockRaines]

Really though, with the amount of high level recruits that come out of Illinois/Chicago, it shouldn't be difficult at all to get into the top 5 for a lot of these players. Like DePaul, they should almost by default be in the top 5 as the "home town" school. And they have been, even under Weber. But at the end of the day you gotta land one.

 

Part of the problem here is that people expect the Cook/Conley/Oden class Groce had in year 2 at OSU. It probably helped that OSU also happened to win the big ten championship and made the tournament in year 2.

For that class that he helped get at OSU it was pretty much recruiting a single AAU team, and Conley's dad really had a lot of input. It was kind of a perfect storm.

[illinilaw08]

Stone was a long shot anyways, getting a guy like Thomas or Sharma is a more reasonable yet lofty expectation.

 

Key word here is LOFTY, especially with Thomas. He's a 5* center from out of state. It's awesome that Illinois is in that recruitment, but it would be a truly historic pull for Groce to get Thomas.

 

Center recruits generally don't make an impact as a freshman unless they are basically already NBA ready. For as long as I can remember, Illinois centers have made big leaps from year 1 to 2 (Archibald, Leonard, Tisdale and Egwu off the top of my head). The key to the center position in '15 for the Illini is the development of Morgan, Colbert and (potentially) Paul. They need to get someone in the '15 class at the 5, but I wouldn't expect an impact until '16.

 

Groce, in my opinion, has done a really nice job of remaking a broken roster in a short time. The '13 class has a ton of balance with two guys making an impact this year (Hill and Nunn). Going into next season, the 4 is a big hole, so Black and Finke (who scored 42 points last night by the way) help with that roster balance. He's effectively used transfers to address weaknesses. The early commits in '15 provide depth on the wings going forward. The trouble spot is obviously PG, but that isn't really a problem until '15. Starks and Tracy are flawed, but they both can play. Hopefully Tate develops his own offense by '15 and can be a competent B1G point guard, but that's the clear weak spot in the roster after next year...

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. I like Groce's plan and his team objectively overachieved last year. If next year's team underachieves, and he fails to get a PG in '15, then the pressure on him intensifies. For now, however, I think this program is in very good hands.

[gatnom]

I don't get why people are punishing Groce for things he hasn't done yet. Right now he hasn't landed a PG. Let's bash him for that when it's all over and he actually hasn't landed one. Ultimately, his career will be determined with whether or not he can win games. Believe it or not, you can actually win with guys like Aaron Jordan, D.J. Williams, Leron Black, Kendrick Nunn, etc.

 

 

[bigruss]

I don't get why people are punishing Groce for things he hasn't done yet. Right now he hasn't landed a PG. Let's bash him for that when it's all over and he actually hasn't landed one. Ultimately, his career will be determined with whether or not he can win games. Believe it or not, you can actually win with guys like Aaron Jordan, D.J. Williams, Leron Black, Kendrick Nunn, etc.

He still needs to get his pg, he's come incredibly close his first 2 years recruiting but hasn't sealed the deal yet. Still early and I think he can get one for 2015, but it's definitely an uphill battle.

 

My biggest worry with Groce is if he can coach in Big Ten play. He didn't win a lot in MAC at Ohio in conference play, and he's struggled in the first 2 years here. If next season they don't go over .500 in conference play then I will start to worry a bit about his coaching ability. I still think he's been a great hire and is setting us up for sustained success going forward.

[gatnom]

He still needs to get his pg, he's come incredibly close his first 2 years recruiting but hasn't sealed the deal yet. Still early and I think he can get one for 2015, but it's definitely an uphill battle.

 

My biggest worry with Groce is if he can coach in Big Ten play. He didn't win a lot in MAC at Ohio in conference play, and he's struggled in the first 2 years here. If next season they don't go over .500 in conference play then I will start to worry a bit about his coaching ability. I still think he's been a great hire and is setting us up for sustained success going forward.

 

True, I'm just not going to jump all over him for not having a PG right this second. There's no point in complaining about something that might not even be an issue. As far as coaching ability, we'll learn a lot next year when he basically has a full team. Personally, I'd be ok with disappointing regular seasons if he continues his postseason success.

 

 

[Brian]

CPS says Curie has to forfeit all their wins and city title. 7 players ineligible since the start of the season. Cliff had to be one. Wonder if it effect scholarship.

[Buehrle>Wood]

With all the "miracles" Bill Self has pulled off getting kids eligible, Cliff will be no problem

[Brian]

With all the "miracles" Bill Self has pulled off getting kids eligible, Cliff will be no problem

 

Agreed.

 

They get to play in state title, which seems wrong.

[Rowand44]

CPS says Curie has to forfeit all their wins and city title. 7 players ineligible since the start of the season. Cliff had to be one. Wonder if it effect scholarship.

But all these players can play in the state tourney? Interesting.

[RockRaines]

Agreed.

 

They get to play in state title, which seems wrong.

Are there details on why they are ineligible.