Boogua Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (gatnom @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) I think you're crazy to prefer Evans to Brunson, but really nothing has changed today. It's been whichever of Evans or Brunson we could land (with Evans being way more likely), and we'll be fine. Until Evans is no longer in play, there's no real reason to worry. If Groce misses on Evans too, yikes. Although, in that scenario, the Abrams injury becomes a bit more of a blessing in disguise... Why? They're pretty close in the rankings, but Evans is quicker and better at defense than Brunson. Brunson is the better shooter/scorer. Considering the roster construction and the amount of shooters that will be on the team (Nunn, Cosby, and Hill in the lineup) having somebody quick and tenacious at d at the 1 is more important IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:40 PM) They will be ok. The problem is that it will be becoming pretty clear that Groce isn't capable of landing the cream of the crop. Yes, because he's had just so many chances and has been playing from behind on every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Not the right move to have his Dad inform the coaching staff he wasn't coming here, but that tells you what you need to know about this recruitment, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:34 PM) I find it hard to believe that he told friends or teachers before making the decision and that they would leak it beforehand. If that's the case, why hold the press conference? Just commit to Nova while your're there. He told his coaches. I wouldn't believe a random person on the internet either but I wasn't lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) Yes, because he's had just so many chances and has been playing from behind on every one of them. If you can't land a single elite recruit in 3 years I don't have faith that you are suddenly going to after that and he isn't playing from behind on any of the recruits in this years class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Boogua @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) Why? They're pretty close in the rankings, but Evans is quicker and better at defense than Brunson. Brunson is the better shooter/scorer. Considering the roster construction and the amount of shooters that will be on the team (Nunn, Cosby, and Hill in the lineup) having somebody quick and tenacious at d at the 1 is more important IMO. If for no other reason, landing a big time recruit out of Chicago would be big. Watching Abrams struggle offensively (particularly shooting) has just worn on me. I don't think it's a surprise that all of our guards seem to throw up ill advised 3's a few times a game. But it's a matter of preference, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:40 PM) They will be ok. The problem is that it will be becoming pretty clear that Groce isn't capable of landing the cream of the crop. Come on. Given the state of the program, are you really surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:51 PM) If you can't land a single elite recruit in 3 years I don't have faith that you are suddenly going to after that and he isn't playing from behind on any of the recruits in this years class. He had 1. Lost him to a dream school at the last second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:51 PM) If you can't land a single elite recruit in 3 years I don't have faith that you are suddenly going to after that and he isn't playing from behind on any of the recruits in this years class. Well first of all, it depends on your definition of elite, but I guess you are talking top 10/15 guys. Outside of that, he's landed good recruits, especially given where the program was at. Anyway, you're dead wrong on not playing from behind. Did you miss everything coming out of the Brunson's camp after the Snider fiasco? From all indications, Illinois was completely out of the running, and Groce worked his ass off to get back into it and even be considered, let alone top 2. Edited September 10, 2014 by IlliniKrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) Rumors starting about Brunson joining the Nova staff. Probably depends on his legal situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:49 PM) Not the right move to have his Dad inform the coaching staff he wasn't coming here, but that tells you what you need to know about this recruitment, IMO. Agree with this. Every other big recruit has called the schools they don't choose themselves. Gotta man up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:56 PM) Well first of all, it depends on your definition of elite, but I guess you are talking top 10/15 guys. Outside of that, he's landed good recruits, especially given where the program was at. Anyway, you're dead wrong on not playing from behind. Did you miss everything coming out of the Brunson's camp after the Snider fiasco? From all indications, Illinois was completely out of the running, and Groce worked his ass off to get back into it and even be considered, let alone top 2. Kruger and Self both got McD AA's in their third class. It's not over yet, but I guess it has been done before. But I do think the program was in worse shape when Groce took over than when Kruger took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:56 PM) Well first of all, it depends on your definition of elite, but I guess you are talking top 10/15 guys. Outside of that, he's landed good recruits, especially given where the program was at. Anyway, you're dead wrong on not playing from behind. Did you miss everything coming out of the Brunson's camp after the Snider fiasco? From all indications, Illinois was completely out of the running, and Groce worked his ass off to get back into it and even be considered, let alone top 2. So if we are taking what the Brunsons said as true, then Groce's own f*** up caused him to be behind in this recruitment so that doesn't exactly make me feel better about it. And yes, I'm talking about McDonald's AA caliber recruits. Groce is landing some very solid players and has gotten a couple of guys I think will be great college players. But Weber also landed similar caliber players (in terms of rankings) towards the end of his tenure. Land Evans and this all moot, strikeout on Evans and I see no way we land Thomas or Bragg and you will then be 3 years in without an elite recruit and I'm not optimistic about landing one in 2016 (well maybe Murray but our best chance there would be striking out on Evans and then convincing him to reclassify to 2015). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) Kruger and Self both got McD AA's in their third class. It's not over yet, but I guess it has been done before. But I do think the program was in worse shape when Groce took over than when Kruger took over. Holding the staff to arbitrary benchmarks because of previous coaches' successes is absurd. Every situation is different. Kruger succeeded largely because the talent in Central Illinois was fantastic when he took over. He won the McClain/Griffin recruitment vs. Bobby Knight, had Frank Williams in the next class, and Cook in the class after. Self was the most successful Illini recruiter since the Deon Thomas scandal, but he still backed into Deron and mis-evaluated Iguodala. Evans is a huge recruit for the Illini now, but even if he goes elsewhere, Groce has been a successful recruiter here. It's unfortunate that he keeps coming in second for point guards, but he's landed some unlikely recruits that the previous staff would have had no chance with (Black and Nunn). Ultimately, he needs to get that big fish, but it's nonsense to say, "well, didn't happen in three years, so it never will." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 What's the connection that Groce/Illinois has to Evans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 12:41 PM) It's Nova for Brunson. Thanks for the information. After 10+ years I was pretty confident you wouldnt say something like that unless you were almost positive (obviously nothing is for certain in life). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 05:13 PM) What's the connection that Groce/Illinois has to Evans? I'm not sure but they are actually in on a couple kids from Texas in this class (Evans and Thomas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) What's the connection that Groce/Illinois has to Evans? No special connection as far as I know. Groce recognized the talent early and has been on him hard since the summer before Evans' Soph year if I'm remembering right. The ability to offer the keys to what should be a pretty talented roster to a kid as a freshman is a pretty strong selling point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (gatnom @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) If for no other reason, landing a big time recruit out of Chicago would be big. Watching Abrams struggle offensively (particularly shooting) has just worn on me. I don't think it's a surprise that all of our guards seem to throw up ill advised 3's a few times a game. But it's a matter of preference, I guess. If Chicago had elite talent in 2016 I might agree with you. The relationship with Simeon and the lack of elite prospects makes me feel like the Chicago thing (even though Stevenson isn't in Chicago) isn't a big deal. Evans looks like much more of a pg than Abrams and is much more highly touted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thad loses out on top three in state recruits. Epic fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 05:16 PM) Thanks for the information. After 10+ years I was pretty confident you wouldnt say something like that unless you were almost positive (obviously nothing is for certain in life). Thank you, sir, I do appreciate that. Not that I was breaking any surprise news or anything but hey it was fun to be in the know for once. QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) I'm not sure but they are actually in on a couple kids from Texas in this class (Evans and Thomas). QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) No special connection as far as I know. Groce recognized the talent early and has been on him hard since the summer before Evans' Soph year if I'm remembering right. The ability to offer the keys to what should be a pretty talented roster to a kid as a freshman is a pretty strong selling point. Gotcha. Didn't know if he had some connection in Texas or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 05:04 PM) So if we are taking what the Brunsons said as true, then Groce's own f*** up caused him to be behind in this recruitment so that doesn't exactly make me feel better about it. And yes, I'm talking about McDonald's AA caliber recruits. Groce is landing some very solid players and has gotten a couple of guys I think will be great college players. But Weber also landed similar caliber players (in terms of rankings) towards the end of his tenure. Land Evans and this all moot, strikeout on Evans and I see no way we land Thomas or Bragg and you will then be 3 years in without an elite recruit and I'm not optimistic about landing one in 2016 (well maybe Murray but our best chance there would be striking out on Evans and then convincing him to reclassify to 2015). Please define "Groce's f***up." Would that be recruiting an elite PG when the chance arose? THAT'S a f***up? The Brunson's, IMO, took offense to it for no logical reason. Yes, Rick, let's put all our eggs into your son's basket. I promise I won't talk to anyone else but you. That would be very smart. And let's not go after guys a year ahead of you either, and build the program any quicker. If Rick took offense to that, so be it. You need to recruit guys whenever the opportunity arises, and we landed him before the crazy late switch. Even if it "cooled" on Jalen for a very short period of time, does that not make sense? Wouldn't Jalen cool on Illinois knowing they had a PG coming in? It was taking offense to something that was clearly nothing, unless you can show me otherwise. Edited September 10, 2014 by IlliniKrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Well tonight, you know where John Groce was? He was in Cleveland watching Bragg play. And tomorrow he will be in Texas seeing Jawun Evans. Oh and look at this.... http://instagram.com/xcarl_b If you can't see it, about 5 hours ago, Bragg put himself in an Illinois jersey and put it on Instagram.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Well that's good news. I still don't see how we get Bragg with Kentucky, Kansas, etc. calling. Thus far, "relationship with Groce and the coaching staff" has not paid off with these top guys. Ultimately that means dick when you're choosing between 2-3 schools. They all have good relationships. Edited September 11, 2014 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 11, 2014 -> 09:00 AM) Well that's good news. I still don't see how we get Bragg with Kentucky, Kansas, etc. calling. Thus far, "relationship with Groce and the coaching staff" have not paid off with these top guys. Ultimately that means dick when you're choosing between 2-3 schools. They all have good relationships. Bragg isn't coming here without an elite pg, he's waiting to see how rosters shake out before deciding anything. If we get Evans, I could see Bragg coming here (though still unlikely). Everything kind of depends on Evans now, do we become an elite force in the B1G or do we set ourselves up to be on the bubble/maybe a bit better (Groce could always find a transfer or something as well to help in the future). But really, I think this is going to tell us a lot about the future of Groce's tenure, can he make the splash or is the current Illinois brand not good enough to land one of the guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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