Pope reaffirms primacy of Catholic church

[Soxy]

Always listen to your Grammy. Okay it's not news, and for those of us who grew up non-Catholic with a Catholic Grandmother this will come as no surprise.

 

Pope: Other Christians not true churches

 

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 32 minutes ago

 

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

 

Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.

 

On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

 

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

 

In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

 

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

 

In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy's Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position.

 

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.

 

The Rev. Sara MacVane of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document.

 

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

 

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

 

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular church," the commentary said.

 

Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

 

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

 

The document, signed by the congregation prefect, U.S. Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul — a major ecumenical feast day.

 

There was no indication about why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that it could simply be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the congregation.

[The Critic]

Ahhhh, yes....

 

Who Would Jesus Denounce?

[NorthSideSox72]

Ahhhh, yes....

 

Who Would Jesus Denounce?

LOL, well done sir.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

The Pope is a uniter not a divider.

 

If the Pope stands in the place of God on Earth and is infallible, how come he is always changing his mind?

[dasox24]

Oh God... This is embarrassing for the Catholic Church, IMO. Being a Catholic myself and going thru a private, Catholic school system, I was always taught to have tolerance for all other religions. Like, it doesn't matter what "god" you believe in, as long as you truly believe in him and his teachings and practice your faith accordingly. I don't think any religion is any better or worse than another.

[sox4lifeinPA]

The Pope is a uniter not a divider.

 

If the Pope stands in the place of God on Earth and is infallible, how come he is always changing his mind?

 

or dies?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Oh God... This is embarrassing for the Catholic Church, IMO. Being a Catholic myself and going thru a private, Catholic school system, I was always taught to have tolerance for all other religions.

 

No, you're right. In fact, as a Catholic you're supposed to be extra-super nice and tolerant to those of other faiths, since, well, you know how they're all going to burn in hell for all eternity pretty soon.

 

 

 

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

 

er, small "c"... pope man... small "c"

[longshot7]

lame.

[FlaSoxxJim]

lame.

 

I think the Pope can heal that.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I think the Pope can heal that.

 

dumb

[whitesoxfan101]

Well, with all due respect to the pope, he can go screw himself. We should do our best to be tolerant and respectful of all religions (outside of the violent extremists of course), and to not only say screw that but ALSO be arrogant enough to say your church is the only true church is asinine.

 

How about you actually show some effort to get the child molestors away and clean your* own closet before you go and try and clean others, asshole? Somewhere up there, Jesus is looking down and shaking his head at this guy.

Edited July 10, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Soxy]

Well, with all due respect to the pope, he can go screw himself.

Uhhhh, technically, he can't. . .

[Steff]

Well, with all due respect to the pope, he can go screw himself. We should do our best to be tolerant and respectful of all religions (outside of the violent extremists of course), and to not only say screw that but ALSO be arrogant enough to say your church is the only true church is asinine.

 

How about you actually show some effort to get the child molestors away and clean your* own closet before you go and try and clean others, asshole? Somewhere up there, Jesus is looking down and shaking his head at this guy.

 

 

Do as I say and not as I do I see....

 

 

 

Uhhhh, technically, he can't. . .

 

 

Point Soxy.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Uhhhh, technically, he can't. . .

I believe he can, he just has to go to confession later.

[vandy125]

Well, with all due respect to the pope, he can go screw himself. We should do our best to be tolerant and respectful of all religions (outside of the violent extremists of course), and to not only say screw that but ALSO be arrogant enough to say your church is the only true church is asinine.

 

How about you actually show some effort to get the child molestors away and clean your* own closet before you go and try and clean others, asshole? Somewhere up there, Jesus is looking down and shaking his head at this guy.

One thing that people forget is that EVERY religion has its own claims to exclusivity. There is always a point where one religion says, we are right and you are wrong. Otherwise, they would not be saying anything at all about who we are, where we are going, or how to get there.

[FlaSoxxJim]

One thing that people forget is that EVERY religion has its own claims to exclusivity.

 

Almost every religion, perhaps, but not all of them. The central tenet of Unitarian Universalism is the support of each individual's search for truth and meaning in concepts of deity and that ranges from a Christian deity to polytheism to atheism and everything in between. It's nice that there s a group out there that believes that nobody's Imaginary Best Buddy In the Sky is any better than anybody else's.

[NorthSideSox72]

One thing that people forget is that EVERY religion has its own claims to exclusivity. There is always a point where one religion says, we are right and you are wrong. Otherwise, they would not be saying anything at all about who we are, where we are going, or how to get there.

B'Hai says B'How ya doin'.

[vandy125]

Almost every religion, perhaps, but not all of them. The central tenet of Unitarian Universalism is the support of each individual's search for truth and meaning in concepts of deity and that ranges from a Christian deity to polytheism to atheism and everything in between. It's nice that there s a group out there that believes that nobody's Imaginary Best Buddy In the Sky is any better than anybody else's.

That is not really saying anything meaningful. It is just talking in circles. That is just saying believe in something. It is just a way of getting around thinking and avoiding the issues.

 

It is like saying truth is relative. Well if all truth is relative, then by definition, that statement cannot be applied to everyone, and it cannot say anything meaningful. You can not even say a statement like "murder is wrong" if truth is relative. If I say it is fine and you say it is not, how can there be any agreement?

 

To add to this example, what if my personal religion, as an extreme example, is to go out and either convert all other people to my religion or kill them because they are just in the way of the "truth". What would be said of that?

Edited July 11, 2007 by vandy125

[jackie hayes]

One thing that people forget is that EVERY religion has its own claims to exclusivity. There is always a point where one religion says, we are right and you are wrong. Otherwise, they would not be saying anything at all about who we are, where we are going, or how to get there.

Exactly. If you're not any different than another religion, or the differences aren't important, why bother?

 

This is only an issue because it's much different than JPII's presentation, not his doctrine. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised, though.

[FlaSoxxJim]

That is not really saying anything meaningful. It is just talking in circles.

 

There you go. And some folks say UU isn't really a religion.