Texsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 If Reinsdorf would put a team on the field that could be competive from opening day forward, the fans would come out. But, they always go through half the season playing like s***, and then pick up the tempo. The fans, though, are always waiting for them to revert back to the boring lethargic team they saw in the first half of the season. They (we) don't believe because they've seen just how bad the team can be. It has happened every year for the past 3 seasons. Even in 2000, we didn't get off to a great start. There were enough flaws in that team, that they kept waiting for the inevitable, and it happened in the playoffs. I'll be honest. When I lived in Chicago I didn't even think about going to games until the NBA and NHL season was finished so no matter how good the team was out of the shoot, I wasn't there. So somewhere around June I looked at the schedule and planned a few games. If the team sucked I would be back maybe 1 or 2 times a month. If the team was playing well or exciting 1 or 2 a week. Fairweather fan? Not really I wasn't jumping on another team either. I would just prefer to watch bad baseball in the privacy of my own living room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I agree cubkilla, this is flawed logic. Look at the Chicago Blackhawks, for example. This team had some of the most loyal fans in America. Fans kept turning the turnstyles moving and tuned in to WGN when they were still on TV. The old barn was always packed, yet their billionaire owner never spent $$$ on the team. This has been going on for years (and still is going on today). There is a reason players Belfour, Amonte, Roenick, Hull, Chelios, (and the list goes on and on) didn't finish in a Hawks sweater. The place was packed, and $$$ was never spent. Fans started to fall away as ticket prices went up, yet a better roster was never the end result. Now, the f***ing team doesn't sell out a game, (although only gets close when Detroit comes to town). Granted there are many differences between owners other than this, but it isn't much. Did you see Kariya is a free agent? I have full faith in Bill Wirtz that he will aggressively pursue and woo Kariya I almost missed the green. I believe the proper spelling is Bill Wirt$ or Bill Worse. Aren't the Blackhawks the only prpfessional sports team without local tv coverage? We are getting an expansion team in the Central Professional Hockey League. I've spoken with their management and these guys could run the Hawks better than Wirt$ and his boy lackey Pully Damn your getting me upset just thinking about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 If Reinsdorf would put a team on the field that could be competive from opening day forward, the fans would come out. But, they always go through half the season playing like s***, and then pick up the tempo. The fans, though, are always waiting for them to revert back to the boring lethargic team they saw in the first half of the season. They (we) don't believe because they've seen just how bad the team can be. It has happened every year for the past 3 seasons. Even in 2000, we didn't get off to a great start. There were enough flaws in that team, that they kept waiting for the inevitable, and it happened in the playoffs. Every team has flaws. The inevitable happens to every team but one every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Every team has flaws. The inevitable happens to every team but one every season. All I can tell you is this. That as a fan, I knew that team would not win the whole enchilada. I dreamed, prayed, hoped... but I still knew. The starting pitching was a patchwork at the end of the year, and they pretty skated in on what they did through the middle part of the season. So, to get into the team, and believe that 2000 was THE year, was not, at least in my mind, realistic. To get the fans in the ballpark, they have to BELIEVE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninbeverly Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Did you see Kariya is a free agent? I saw that he didn't get a qualifying offer so he is now looking for a new home. For $10 mil a season, he sure as hell won't be wearing a Hawks sweater, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninbeverly Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Aren't the Blackhawks the only prpfessional sports team without local tv coverage? Correct. 29 of the 30 NHL teams all have local media televising home games. The Hawks are the only ones that do not. This makes it even worse. The Score used to broadcast via radio, and paid a fee of approximately $1million a season to the Hawks. The Score then sold air time for commercials to pay the fee and make $$ on the games. Their contract is now up. Instead of taking competitve bids from other radio stations (as what happened 4 years ago when the originl contract was up) this year, no one has put a bid in to broadcast the games. The tables have turned on the Hawks for their crappy product. The Score is now the only one negotiating w/the Hawks, and instead of paying the Hawks for their product, the organization is going to have to pay for air time, to the tune of a $1 million per year. That's if Wirtz wants to pay it. He may not, so their may be no radio for home & away games, as well as no TV for home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 If Reinsdorf would put a team on the field that could be competive from opening day forward, the fans would come out. But, they always go through half the season playing like s***, and then pick up the tempo. The fans, though, are always waiting for them to revert back to the boring lethargic team they saw in the first half of the season. They (we) don't believe because they've seen just how bad the team can be. It has happened every year for the past 3 seasons. Even in 2000, we didn't get off to a great start. There were enough flaws in that team, that they kept waiting for the inevitable, and it happened in the playoffs. I'm sorry, but I gotta call "bulls***" on this. 2000 was a playoff year, and 2001 and 2003 were started with big expectations, and 2002 less so. My memory could be off, but weren't the Sox in first place from like May 1 to the wire in 2000? Maybe when you refer to a not great start in 2000, you mean that they lost the first 2 games in Texas, but otherwise, I beg to differ. And your point about Sox fans waiting for the inevitable in 2000...all I can say is "wow". You paint the Sox fan as very pessimistic. Not even a trip to the playoffs can get them excited about their team. I suppose if the lost in the WS you'd they that their doubts came to fruition in the Series! My God, in this case, JR ought to give up...there's no way in hell to get the Sox fans excited about their team. I would love to see JR throw barrels full of money at free agents, but I can't be angry at him when he doesn't when his ballpark is more than half empty most of the time. He tied up one of the best players in Sox history for the rest of his career (whether it was wise is a matter for discussion). He's gone out and got players like Albert Belle, Colon, David Wells, Charles Johnson. Again, whether they were wise baseball moves is another matter, but they commanded huge coin and he got them. Robin Ventura left because he grossly overestimated his value on the open market. The Sox's original offer to him was more than fair. And they've worked to keep their young core together and signed. You can't give him lemons and expect wine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 All I can tell you is this. That as a fan, I knew that team would not win the whole enchilada. I dreamed, prayed, hoped... but I still knew. The starting pitching was a patchwork at the end of the year, and they pretty skated in on what they did through the middle part of the season. So, to get into the team, and believe that 2000 was THE year, was not, at least in my mind, realistic. To get the fans in the ballpark, they have to BELIEVE. So how do they get you to believe ? You still didn't believe when they won the division. If they win the World Series then you would believe if I am reading this correctly. Unfortanetly, if you must win the World Series before you draw a crowd, the season will be over and there would be no games to attend. The first goal is to make the playoffs. Anything can happen in the playoffs. If the White Sox are fielding a playoff caliber team, there is no reason they should average less than 30,000 a game. If that happened you would see a dramatic rise in payroll. Were you one to believe in 1994 that the White Sox were going to win the World Series, even though they were only 1 game ahead of a young up and coming Cleveland team ? If you believed then, than there is no reason you shouldn't have in 2000 or now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Robin Ventura left because he grossly overestimated his value on the open market. The Sox's original offer to him was more than fair. And they've worked to keep their young core together and signed. You can't give him lemons and expect wine. I would hardly say Robin underestimated his value. He got a 4 year $32 million deal when the Sox were offering about half of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 So how do they get you to believe ? You still didn't believe when they won the division. If they win the World Series then you would believe if I am reading this correctly. Unfortanetly, if you must win the World Series before you draw a crowd, the season will be over and there would be no games to attend. The first goal is to make the playoffs. Anything can happen in the playoffs. If the White Sox are fielding a playoff caliber team, there is no reason they should average less than 30,000 a game. If that happened you would see a dramatic rise in payroll. Were you one to believe in 1994 that the White Sox were going to win the World Series, even though they were only 1 game ahead of a young up and coming Cleveland team ? If you believed then, than there is no reason you shouldn't have in 2000 or now. It's all about the quality of the team. I believed in '94.. and I believed in '83. It's all about having a firm solid foundation based on the belief that the team is actually capable. Sure, any team that make the playoffs can get hot at the right time and win it all. But did you really believe that the 2000 team was capable? I didn't. So far, this team has not shown that this year it is capable of winning it all. It has the potential to show that, and do so. But, they blew 3 months of the season as far as attendance goes by playing well below their capablilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 The starting staff of the 2000 team was a patchwork. There was no way you could expect then to have any longterm success against playoff caliber teams. As the season went along you could see that happening. As I said , I belived in in '83 and '94... and you can add '93 to that. Those teams were solid. Unfortunately, the '94 team team was the last really solid team we had. We got out to such a big lead in 2000 that we couldn't lose it. But, there is no way in hell that team was going all the way with the starting staff in the condition it it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 The starting staff of the 2000 team was a patchwork. There was no way you could expect then to have any longterm success against playoff caliber teams. As the season went along you could see that happening. As I said , I belived in in '83 and '94... and you can add '93 to that. Those teams were solid. Unfortunately, the '94 team team was the last really solid team we had. We got out to such a big lead in 2000 that we couldn't lose it. But, there is no way in hell that team was going all the way with the starting staff in the condition it it was. But the pitching was pretty good in the playoff games, they just didn't hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I'll give you this much on 2000. The team wasn't expected to do anything. That, in itself, contributed to the fans "expecting the inevitable". So, it took a while for them to truly believe. And, thet did after the NY/Cleve road trip we swept. But as the starting staff self destructed as the season progressed, they just knew...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 It's all about the quality of the team. I believed in '94.. and I believed in '83. It's all about having a firm solid foundation based on the belief that the team is actually capable. Sure, any team that make the playoffs can get hot at the right time and win it all. But did you really believe that the 2000 team was capable? I didn't. So far, this team has not shown that this year it is capable of winning it all. It has the potential to show that, and do so. But, they blew 3 months of the season as far as attendance goes by playing well below their capablilities. Well if you believed in 83, they too spend a couple of months floundering, I'd imagine if they won their next 50 games straight your next argument would be the park is too blue or the upperdeck too steep. This division is weak, the starters are tough, if they make the playoffs and keep Jimenez off the field they'll have a legimate shot. Its time to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 But the pitching was pretty good in the playoff games, they just didn't hit. They did actually perform above expectations against Seattle. But, did you really believe they had the pitching to win it all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 attendance follows the year after a great season - unless that following year the team really sucks look at 1984 - we not only outdrew ourselves from the 1983 season, we outdrew the scrubs and they won their division that year - anyone can look it up - look at the numbers from 94 following the 93 season - then of course the lock out and JR's role and our diminished team hurt us in 95 we had some horrid weather on many of our May and early June homestands in 2000 which hurt attendance as the team began winning - and in September 2000, to my surprise, we had low attendance - mid June through August we did fine - the effects of the 2000 season should have been felt in 2001 but we fell so fast so out of it that we killed all walk up business that 29,000 were at the Cell last night is fantatastic support and if that can keep on, we'll do ok I understand the casual fan not attending unless the team is winning but not anyone who claims to be a true fan - with Monday and Tuesday being half price, with cheap enough seats in the upper deck, hell, anyone who signs a kid up for the silver and black pack gets 6 free tickets - there are plenty of inexpensive ways to go my theory is, if I want the dead to get up off their dead ass and play hard, then I should bet up off of mine and be there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 They did actually perform above expectations against Seattle. But, did you really believe they had the pitching to win it all? Did you think Anaheim did last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I'll give you this much on 2000. The team wasn't expected to do anything. That, in itself, contributed to the fans "expecting the inevitable". So, it took a while for them to truly believe. And, thet did after the NY/Cleve road trip we swept. But as the starting staff self destructed as the season progressed, they just knew...... who expected the "inevitable" in 2000? That is not so. We looked for great things in the playoffs - we had knocked the Yankees and Cleveland soundly in that 2 week span in June and we were not intimidated there and the west didn't scare us - we were expecting top go far then against Seatlle Frank, Mags, and PK had 1 hit between all 3 in the three games - that is what cost us in the play-offs, but expectations were very high; no one I knew as expecting anything "inevitable" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Well if you believed in 83, they too spend a couple of months floundering, I'd imagine if they won their next 50 games straight your next argument would be the park is too blue or the upperdeck too steep. This division is weak, the starters are tough, if they make the playoffs and keep Jimenez off the field they'll have a legimate shot. Its time to believe. Yes, the '83 team did flounder, but as they started winning they just looked stronger. Much stronger than the '00 team. As for it being time to believe, yes... it's possible with this team. I'm hopeful that they turn out to be a team you can believe in... regardless of the steepness of the upper deck.... Consistancy in the way they are currently playing over the next month or so will convince me that they can be a force to deal with in the post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 They did actually perform above expectations against Seattle. But, did you really believe they had the pitching to win it all? yes our pitching was good enough as the three playoff games showed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 The White Sox had the best record in the AL in 2000. There was no reason to believe they couldn't be successful in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 They did actually perform above expectations against Seattle. But, did you really believe they had the pitching to win it all? If I am never going to beleive in them, why be a fan anymore? Yeah, I beleived they had the "team" to win it all. I am glad I go to the number of games I do every year no matter what is happening. I would have missed out on a lot of great games and memories sitting at home waiting until they had the perfect team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 If I am never going to beleive in them, why be a fan anymore? Yeah, I beleived they had the "team" to win it all. I am glad I go to the number of games I do every year no matter what is happening. I would have missed out on a lot of great games and memories sitting at home waiting until they had the perfect team. stuff like that is one reason I love ya - great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 The White Sox had the best record in the AL in 2000. There was no reason to believe they couldn't be successful in the playoffs. Regular season records mean absolutely nothing. In 2000, it was obvious that the sox didnt have the right ingredients to be the favorites. Its very rare you win it all without the pitching and defense the sox lacked. Being swept by Seattle was no surprise at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 If I am never going to beleive in them, why be a fan anymore? Yeah, I beleived they had the "team" to win it all. I am glad I go to the number of games I do every year no matter what is happening. I would have missed out on a lot of great games and memories sitting at home waiting until they had the perfect team. I agree but some will point out for every S there's a M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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