hawksrule Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 OK, I agree that the White Sox do need some starting pitching, and yes I do agree that we will have to give up some of our minor league prospects, but let's be careful how many we give up. I do like the idea of getting a Bartolo Colon, and maybe someone like a Jose Vidro, for Joe Borchard, Willie Harris, and someone else. Any combination of minor leaguers would be a good deal to fill in the gaps at 2nd and pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by hawksruleOK, I agree that the White Sox do need some starting pitching, and yes I do agree that we will have to give up some of our minor league prospects, but let's be careful how many we give up. I do like the idea of getting a Bartolo Colon, and maybe someone like a Jose Vidro, for Joe Borchard, Willie Harris, and someone else. Any combination of minor leaguers would be a good deal to fill in the gaps at 2nd and pitching. We won't deal Borchard...any deal involving him will be denied before going any further into discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksrule Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Never be too sure about who is untouchable. I heard talks on ESPN.com about Paulie going to the Giants??? What the hell is that about??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 and were not getting colon so you guys can just get that name out of your wish lists now.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Colon is outta the picture...... but this Ortiz fella is pretty f***ing good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksrule Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by hotsoxchick1and were not getting colon so you guys can just get that name out of your wish lists now.......... Why wouldn't we get him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by hawksrule Originally posted by hotsoxchick1and were not getting colon so you guys can just get that name out of your wish lists now.......... Why wouldn't we get him? Just to much to give up, for someone we might have trouble signing long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 because he has his sights set on either boston or new york... chicago is NOT on his wish list.........and its a pr stunt move from kw to make it look like he was honestly trying to do something instead of sitting on his thumbs at the winter meetings.... all talk and there will be no action as far as colon is concerned...........get it now???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suffering-nomore-sox fan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by hotsoxchick1because he has his sights set on either boston or new york... chicago is NOT on his wish list.........and its a pr stunt move from kw to make it look like he was honestly trying to do something instead of sitting on his thumbs at the winter meetings.... all talk and there will be no action as far as colon is concerned...........get it now???? Just like Kenny did in the A-Rod fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 exactly .. now your getting the picture....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by hawksrule I do like the idea of getting a Bartolo Colon, and maybe someone like a Jose Vidro, for Joe Borchard, Willie Harris, and someone else. Borchard won't be dealt..... at least he better not be :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Borchard won't be going anywhere in any deals. Kw has stated Honel and Borchard are untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Quickly, I'm gonna jot some names down as options still out their... -Omar Daal (FA) -Ismael Valdes (FA) -Roger Clemens (FA) -James Baldwin (FA) -Brad Penny (FLA) -Ryan Dempster (CIN) -Braves Pitcher (ATL) -Sidney Ponson (BALT) -Andy Ashby (LA) -Brian Lawrence (SD) -Livan Hernandez (SF) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rt59_bnsf Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 it's only a matter of time before the Braves sign Clemens - LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Save us Ryan Dempster, you're our only hope. Honestly, he's the only realistic option the Sox have as a second or third starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjav829 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 There were some rumors circulating yesterday that Kenny Williams is a real MLB GM. Unfortunately those rumors were shot down this morning. Can you tell how pissed am I today? I think I need to forget about the Sox for a while. :mad::mad::mad::mad::****KW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 It's obvious why the Sox didn't get Ortiz...we were looking at giving up Lee or Konerko, and they didn't want to add on money...and that's exactly what they would be doing with their additions...they wouldn't be cutting enough salary. Either that or else KW actually had no interest in Ortiz and was just doing this much like the A-Rod and soon to be Colon deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I think Witesoxfan is hitting it on the head. Many of us were questioning how this move could of been done yesterday. The Giants wanted to dump payroll, and the Sox didn't want to add too much. The whole Konerko thing must not of been true. The Giants wanted prospects and cheap players and the Braves made a heck of a lot better of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Long time reader, first time poster. Anyways, since the end of last season, I have almost religiously followed the trade movements in hope that the White Sox would do something. Eventually this following became an obsession every day looking, every day trying to find that we did something, anything to just provide me with some sort of justification that the White Sox were trying. But in my madness I finally realized that perhaps my obsession with the White Sox doing something was bordering on ridiculous. On the few message boards that I have checked, most people seem to be very upset with the fact that the White Sox have seemingly lost out on a variety of different pitchers, Oritz and Byrd being the last. But when looking at the rumors of what we would have had to give up for Ortiz, Konerko in particular, I think that the White Sox made a good decision to not trade for Ortiz. I have always been suspect of National League pitchers coming to the American League, the trade for Todd Ritchie even furthered this suspicion. Unlike in the National League, there is no free out that gets many pitchers out of trouble. I can not even recall how many times Todd Ritchie would be on the brink of getting himself out of trouble, only to be pounded by the bottom half of the order. I do not see Ortiz as being able to be as successful as he was in the National League, and with the price that was given up for him, he clearly was demanding far more then he would be worth in the American League. So that brings me to what the White Sox should do, I will assume that we are working with about $57 million in salary: 1) Sign a free agent such as Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux. Sure they both are out of our price range now, but if we were willing to trade Lee, Liefer, and others, why would we not be willing to trade them for prospects? If we were to trade Lee, Valentine, and not resign Ritchie, that would free up 5mil from Valentine, 2.7mil from Lee, and 3.5mil from Ritchie. That is a total of 11.2 million for next year. Most likely we would have to eat some of Valentine's contract, perhaps even half, lowering our savings to 8.7 million. We also have considerably less cap tied to players that we had last year. Thomas is 4million cheaper, Durham's 6million is gone, Clayton's 4.5million is gone, so is Alomars 2.5mil and Foulke's 4million has been replaced by Koch's 2.35mil, but eventually will be increased. This leaves us saving 17 million from last years starting cap alone, even if we do not include Koch. 17 + 8.7= 25 million less salary then last year. Even if we resign Burhle to a long term contract, we are still a significantly cheaper team then we were last year. We can then use that money to sign a Roger Clemens or a Greg Maddux, two pitchers that will give us not only a number 2, but pitchers that could be number 1s. We can replace Lee with either Liefer, or Brochard, or perhaps try and get a center field prospect through our trades and put Rowand in Left Field for the time being. With Valentine gone we can put Jiminez at short and Harris at 2nd. In essence we would be trading Valentine and Lee for Maddux or Clemens, both trades I would make in a heart beat. Option 2: If Maddux accepts arbitration it is unlikely that the Braves will be able to keep their entire starting staff. What this means is that Milwood may be on the block, but will come at a very high price tag. I think that Milwood would make a far better pitcher for the White Sox then Ortiz would have, and will make the transition to the American League much smoother then Ortiz might of. The reason for this is Milwood's extremly low whip, and the fact that he has an outstanding Walks to K's ratio. Both of these factors make Milwood a much better risk to take for the White Sox if we are going to give up a considerable package. If we were thinking about giving up Konerko for Ortiz, I would much rather think about having Milwood for Konerko. Eventhough I will admit, it would be a cold day in hell before I ever traded Konerko, but if he is on the market, I want a starter who is going to be a stud for years to come. If we traded Konerko we could try and get David Ortiz, which would give us a power hitting first baseman. Anyhow, this is all just what my sick and twisted mind has come up with. I doubt that any of it happens, and most likely the White Sox will either trade with the Expos or stand pat. But I can dream, I can dream of a White Sox team that will win the World Series. Because thats all ive got right now. ~B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I liked your post, Soxbadger, until about the 3rd to last line...something along the lines of "then the Sox can pick up David Ortiz to play 1B." That would be the worst possible move on the planet at this point in time...he is a very streaky player who is a strike outmachine when cold...not only that, but he is not good with the leather, and Thomas would be better a option, because then we could move Lee to DH and have someone else play LF, say maybe a free agent brought in to play LF, or something to the extent. We'll figure out something...maybe Beane wants to screw KW over again and we can get Terrence Long...he'd be a great CFer, provides some pop from the left-side of the plate and would help fill out our OF problem....hell, they're considering moving Long to LF...the f*** are they doing that for? The guy is a gold-glove caliber CFer with a good arm...I'll take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 hey jas did i not say that byrd would be headed back to the nl if not back to kc??? hey i had to be right about something .........lmao...... sorry........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Well, this is just thrown out there for kicks and giggles, but apparently the A's are considering moving Terrence Long to LF...I really don't want to deal with Billy Beane again, but if they are considering moving Long to LF, then what the hell are we waiting for? He's a great CF, gold glove caliber, and he's very smart in the field(I remember he faked a catch in the outfield and Ellis Burks fell for it...Long got it and threw Burks out at the plate earlier this year). What would it take to get Long do you suppose? Jon Adkins? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 First off, let me say welcome aboard Sox Badger. Great post. I'm with you in most regards. Right now I'm under the assumption that the White Sox will keep their payroll between 50 and 52 mill(Just my guess) If they do that, then they won't have much after locking up Ritchie and eventually locking up Buerhle. This would mean they'd have to dump some type of salary to pick up a pitcher or get JR to ok adding a little more salary. With the increase in ticket prices, and the all star festivities you could only hope. Right now, I think the best option if we are going to get a real good pitcher is Bartolo Colon, but the Expos will demand a ton and Ken Williams will have to decide whether it is worth it. The Ortiz deal would of been great, especially for the rumored prospects. Unfortunately, the Braves made a far better offer and the Sox couldn't beat it or didn't have the shot to beat it. (I think the Braves gave up way too much, imo) Next off you have the Colon deal. Those rumors have died down, but the Sox are now supposed to be the 3rd team in the running, which lives a little bit of hope out their. Their are also guys like Person that are free agents and don't look to be getting any interest. Person isn't a great pitcher, but the thing that stands out about him is the fact that opponents don't hit him very good at all. If he could ever improve his control, he'd be a extremely good pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Next...let me say this, Billy Beane is losing it. The last deal he made really has me questioning things. Erubiel Durazo is a great talent, but the guy has been injured his whole career. He gave up one phenomenal prospect and some are saying that odds are the Jays will get both Griffin and Arnold or whatever his name is. That would be way too much to give up to get Durazo, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by ChisoxfnNext...let me say this, Billy Beane is losing it. The last deal he made really has me questioning things. Billy Beane has GM'ed a team that has finished well above .500 the last couple of seasons..... including AL West Champion in 2002. KW has taken a Division Champion and decimated it to a team that can barely finish above .500. But you're questioning Beane and you think, "he's losing it?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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