daa84 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 11:07 AM) I'm just going to ignore the BP circle jerk because it's obvious a lot of you will just start being negative the instant a publication starts viewing our prospects poorly. For the ceiling of Gio, I find it kind of pointless. Very rarely are minor leaguers pegged as #1 starters, and even more rare is when they pan out to be #1 starters. Why is this? Simple: because many pitchers who are currently aces go through a learning process and adjust at the major league level, not the minor league level. This is why you have an army of AAAA guys who can't get a major league hitter out with regularity if their lives depended on it. Of course it is important to have good stuff, which Gio has, but it's more important to know how to pitch, change speeds, and most importantly adapt to what teams are doing to you. Thus, it's a f***ing crapshoot to say player A is going to be a #1 and player B a #4. Player A could be dumb as rocks and will keep throwing his curveball with no control until he flames out of the league while player B understands how to picth. This is why I think Egbert is our best pitching prospect: because every scouting report I read says he flat out knows how to pitch with four pitches. Yes it would be nice if the threw 95+, but if you can mix four pitches and locate them well, specifically down in the zone, odds are you're going to have more success than the pitcher who just knows how to throw hard. good post....how many guys really are considered #1 starters? Hughes bailey, maybe gallardo, lincecum...theres nothing wrong with having the ceiling of a #3 starter....jon garland is a number 3, so is javy vazquez...i think wed all be thrilled if gio turns out to be a guy like that....is he gonna be a santana, peavy, type? i think we all knew the answer to that was no even before BP came out with anything...i for one would be very happy if gio becomes a guy who we can count on to give us 13-15 wins a year, which is fairly typical for a #3 on a good team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 11:50 AM) good post....how many guys really are considered #1 starters? Hughes bailey, maybe gallardo, lincecum...theres nothing wrong with having the ceiling of a #3 starter....jon garland is a number 3, so is javy vazquez...i think wed all be thrilled if gio turns out to be a guy like that....is he gonna be a santana, peavy, type? i think we all knew the answer to that was no even before BP came out with anything...i for one would be very happy if gio becomes a guy who we can count on to give us 13-15 wins a year, which is fairly typical for a #3 on a good team... Exactly my point. There are only very few prospects considered #1s, and if Gio is a #3 and puts up numbers better than the league average, I'll be very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 11:50 AM) good post....how many guys really are considered #1 starters? Hughes bailey, maybe gallardo, lincecum...theres nothing wrong with having the ceiling of a #3 starter....jon garland is a number 3, so is javy vazquez...i think wed all be thrilled if gio turns out to be a guy like that....is he gonna be a santana, peavy, type? i think we all knew the answer to that was no even before BP came out with anything...i for one would be very happy if gio becomes a guy who we can count on to give us 13-15 wins a year, which is fairly typical for a #3 on a good team... That's the point I don't think a lot of people understand. If they are saying Gio Gonzalez is going to be a 3 or a 4, they aren't saying the guy is going to suck or be a mediocre pitcher. Jon Garland and Javier Vazquez sure as hell aren't s***ty pitchers; in fact, they are very good pitchers. But there is no chance in hell you are going to even think about building a rotation, let alone an entire team, around Garland or Vazquez. If Gio Gonzalez were an ace prospect in the minors, he'd be 3-5 inches taller and he's exhibit much, much better control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 The size issue doesn't concern me but the command issue does. I don't think Pedro, Santana, Oswalt and some others are too big but command is a necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 The size does concern me a bit, but not in the immediate future but more so when he reaches 30 or so. I could see Gio having a very good run of about 5-6 years until his body starts to wear down and he begins to lose velocity on his fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) The size issue doesn't concern me but the command issue does. I don't think Pedro, Santana, Oswalt and some others are too big but command is a necessity. I've read people speculate that Gio's more like 5'6-5'8 than 5'10. His size is a huge concern to me. You are also talking about 3 of the best pitchers of the past decade. Gio has good stuff, but if you're comparing it to Oswalt, Santana, and Pedro, the conversation ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 BP's morons? http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/03/compu...e-feelings.html ...and in that same article they thought the bullpen would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I've read people speculate that Gio's more like 5'6-5'8 than 5'10. His size is a huge concern to me. You are also talking about 3 of the best pitchers of the past decade. Gio has good stuff, but if you're comparing it to Oswalt, Santana, and Pedro, the conversation ends. I don't know exactly what his actual height is. I was assuming that he was his listed 5'11". If he's 5" 6" ...well....that's different. Tom Gordon is listed at 5'9". I'm just saying that's not the biggest issue. Even if he can never handle a 230 inning workload and he needs to be limited to 190 - that's ok as long as it's a very effective 190. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 01:25 PM) I don't know exactly what his actual height is. I was assuming that he was his listed 5'11". If he's 5" 6" ...well....that's different. Tom Gordon is listed at 5'9". I'm just saying that's not the biggest issue. Even if he can never handle a 230 inning workload and he needs to be limited to 190 - that's ok as long as it's a very effective 190. Gordon is a mini-Oswalt; the stuff was there, cuz he can still get it up to 97 if he has to, and he has about the nastiest hook I've ever seen. He just didn't have the control nor I would venture to guess the secondary pitches to succeed in the majors; nor the durability. If Gio's hook is as good as Gordon - and Gordon's had to of been like an 80 - then he'll be good, and he'll be used, and I would guarantee it to you. He could be 5'3 and he'd be used. And I still don't think Gio's a lock to be a member of the White Sox organization next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 11:10 PM) The size does concern me a bit, but not in the immediate future but more so when he reaches 30 or so. I could see Gio having a very good run of about 5-6 years until his body starts to wear down and he begins to lose velocity on his fastball. which is a legit concern, but i'm only worrying about the first 6 years. I feel people on milb board's often tend to think of their top prospects as franchise players. that just isn't the case, it rarely happens, i just hope they're productive for the first 6 after that if they're not on the south side i could care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballgal32 Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I go to all the Barons' home games and Gio really is 5'10'' or 5'11''. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 (edited) I stood next to him this year in ST and I'm 5'10 - 5'11. Him and I are about dead even. Now that I think about it, he might be an inch shorter. Edited July 27, 2007 by TheOcho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 (edited) LOL, I just got the joke in the title Edited July 27, 2007 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.